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Discussion in 'The Workbench' started by tremojem, Apr 28, 2016.
What would be the best power and preamp tube compliment for this amp?
NOS Mullard preamp tubes, or preferably old(er) Groove Tube 12AX7M's. For CP tubes the Tung Sol 12AX7's are hard to beat. As for power tubes locate some NOS Siemens EL34's. NOS Groove Tubes Siemens EL34's or NOS Mesa Boogie STR-450's. If these are harder to locate or more expensive then try NOS RFT EL34's. For CP EL34's the Tung Sol EL34-B's are great. I'd eventually like to try out the TAD EL34B-STR and Ruby EL34B-STR tubes however, I'm more partial to the 'dimple' top Siemens and RFT's in the 1968 100W Super Lead heads.
Being this is my first Marshall Clone, I really want to get the most out of it.
I have had Mesa Tremoverbs since 2004 and love what they do, but I really want that great Marshall tone, so any advise will be much appreciated.
First off do you like the way it sounds now, or is there anything you want to change in your tone? Tube types and brands have different sound characteristics, may they be subtle but they are there. I would recommend different tubes based on what sound results you want. If you want to brighten it, darken it, get more crunch, get more head room, more top end, more low end, etc.
Good points. Did this with my Mesas.
But I am familiar with them.
Not so with the Ceriatone Marshall Clone.
It will take some time, and I will get there.
Just looking for some tips of what has been successful for Marshall tone, thanks.
My pleasure. The old Mullard 12AX7's and Siemens/RFT EL34's will get you the classic tones from the past.
O.K. so I fired up the new Super Lead.
It is loaded with JJ tubes.
It is odd to me, but there does not seem to be as much squonk or treble as I imagined.
It could be the Marshall 1960B cab loaded with G12T-75s.
I don't know, it just seems that the tone knobs only affect the tone a little and not drastically, as I am used to with my Tremoverbs.
It sounds great, but I know it can sound better, but then again it is new to me, so it may take some time to get used to, so this is just the initial thought I have.
JJ tubes are dark sounding and lack "squonk". My cab has 75's and I love the tone. How much do you want to spend on tubes? If you have the bucks Jack offered some good NOS ideas, otherwise you can get some current production tubes that are friendlier on the wallet and easier to find, like Shuguang, Sino, Ruby, to name a few you should get more "squonk" out of LOL. Look for a guy here named RickyLee I'm pretty sure he has a hand wired Super Lead (in a white head box) and lots of videos, see if you like what you hear and ask him what tubes he uses, he gets great sound out of his amp.
And don't forget to check your bias on whats in there now and whatever you put in there, it makes a difference tonally and is imperative to the health of your amp.
Just like new speakers that need to be broken in, let your ears acclimate to your new rig and don't automatically assume the worst. Give it time before you come to any final conclusions.
Great advise guys and thank you so much!
I really have been considering the NOS angle...at least for the preamp.
I will play it for a few weeks and then make a move.
For now, I might just throw some new Tung-Sol preamp tubes in it, just to see what happens.
Thanks a again and I will look up those videos from Rickylee.
Here is what I am looking for...or at least very close...I actually have a Jem and PRS S2 Singlecut. I play all original material that is heavily rooted in classic rock, Hendrix, Trower, Schenker, etc.
I spoke to a friend of mine who has had one of these for a few years.
He said it will take some time for the caps to open up and the amp in general.
A quick and cheap experiment, would be to throw three Tung-Sol preamp tubes in it, as I have them in my possession.
I will let you know what happens with that.
Long term, I am definitely on board with tube rolling to ANOS or NOS.
I gave some thought to the speakers, and hate that it may be contributing to the problem.
I could always plug the head into one of my Tremoverb combos, as they have two V30s in them.
If it sounds drastically different, as I imagine it would, then I might need to go down that path.
Tone is a money pit...but a good one.
What would your recommendations be for my 1960B cab and the Super Lead, to get close to that great tone in the Nuno video above?
Those tones in the video sound very reminiscent to a member's here named MichaelRT, he has a 200 watt Major and runs it through a full stack of greenbacks. His videos sound exactly like those Nuno videos you posted.
Those Tungsols should brighten your amp right up
And, yes it is MichaelR/T, just from another forum.
His rig is amazing. I love his tone.
I will definitely try the Tung-Sols.
I realize over time as the amp opens up, it will change.
Greenbacks you say...anything I should know, as far as m/n, etc. so I can find them online and order, or at least start my research on them?
From John Templeton (reviewer) for The Tube Store...
There are only so many ways to describe tube tone and most have become cliches. The Tung-Sol 12AX7 has the gain and drive of a Chinese 12AX7 and the pure tone of a Mullard or Brimar from the U.K. I've had two people come to me recently with amps they thought were in need of complete overhauls. In both cases, careful examination revealed no serious problems and all the tubes "tested" as good. At the end of the day, I replaced the NOS Mullard and RCA pre-amps (one in each amp) with a reissue Tung-Sol 12AX7. In both cases the owners were very impressed and thought that their amps had been restored to full health. Believe it or Not.
JD - I wouldn't describe them as bright in my Fender 63' VibroVerb RI amp, just full of gutsy gain.
I forgot that your amp is new. Yes, much like new speaker cones that need to be broken in or 'loosened up', your caps whether mustards, Sozo, orange drops, or otherwise will develop 'charge/discharge pathways' over time (for lack of a better term) and after you have put a sufficient amount of time on the head you will hear that change. If you go with Greenbacks or any other Celestion speaker model, I'd seriously suggest getting a quad from Avatar speakers with the 'Hellatone' broken in treatment.
Good point on Avatar.
Another forum mentioned NOT to use the Tung-Sol in the PI or cathode follower position, so I won't.
What I don't like about the schematic on the Ceriatone website is there is no call out of tubes or denotations.
For example, my Tremoverb has a user manual that clearly denotes all tube locations and identifiers.
I will check the website for any further documentation.
Looking left to right on the above schematic V7, V6, V5, V4, V3, V2, V1.
V7 through V4 are your EL34's, V3 through V1 are your 12AX7's (or ECC83's) with V3 being your (phase inverter/driver) tube.
The issues of Tungsol not being good in certain positions is old and no longer an issue AFAIK. For CP I like the Tungsol, also the Mullard RI. The TAD EL34 is a great sounding output tube (and you may be surprised how much a difference the output tubes make).
I do like the TAD tubes that I've tried. I have a pair of TAD 6V6's in my 66' Deluxe Reverb, and a friend of mine has a pair of TAD 6L6GC STR's in his Fender SFSR combo. I have yet to try their EL34's although, I'm sure they are just as good as their other power tube counterparts.
Thanks for the tube call out.
Seems that Mullard is very popular.
Thanks for the update on Tung-Sol.
I will add TAD to my list.
I have to admit, the Super Lead really does kick ass.
I am using it in a W/D/W rig, with two Tremoverb Combos flanking the 1960B 4 x12.
The Tremoverbs have Strymon Mobius, Timeline, BigSky and a TC Electronics Gmajor in the loop.
Of course the Super Lead is dry.
I keep the Super Lead just a pinch higher in volume than the stereo rig, as I want it to edge them out, just by a pinch.
I use 6L6s in the Tremverbs with an RC Booster as a clean boost to tighten them up a bit.
I really should not be complaining.
I should be able to get to the tube roll on Saturday.
Oh, by the way...I have some Tung-Sol EL34s and some old Mesa EL34s, I can roll, when the thing opens up, for now I just want to roll preamp tubes.