5E3 sounding dark and dull

[Hebaton]

Picked up a Tweed delux repro last night. Looks very well done with good quality parts...
Except no highs, sound dull with little dynamics. not much difference between the two inputs either...

ANy clues ?

 

[paul-e-mann]

Picked up a Tweed delux repro last night. Looks very well done with good quality parts...
Except no highs, sound dull with little dynamics. not much difference between the two inputs either...

ANy clues ?

Could be speaker and/or tube choice. Do you have another cab to plug it into? Other tubes to try?

 

[Hebaton]

Could be speaker and/or tube choice. Do you have another cab to plug it into? Other tubes to try?

Only other cab I have is a 4 x 12 greenbacks... Ordered a set of tubes ( except for rectifyer )

 

[paul-e-mann]

Only other cab I have is a 4 x 12 greenbacks... Ordered a set of tubes ( except for rectifyer )

Can you make a cable to plug into your cab? What brand tubes did you order, I was gonna say Chinese tubes are brighter, I put a set of Ruby in my SV20H and it made a difference, Shuguang are good to.

 

[Hebaton]

Tryed the 4 x 12 It is surprising how much impact speakers have on this amp. I also removed and re installed all tubes, things changed a lot !
Still ordered a Jensen P12Q to replace the Weber alnico signature currently in it. I find it breaks up much to quick and colapses under bass frequencies.
Also on order a pair of Tung Sol 6V6 a Gold Lion 12aAX7 and a EH 12 AY7

 

[johan.b]

If you're used to marshall, they are a bit dull with heavy lowmid emphasis.. start with an eq pedal in front and pull down 400hz. That moves it forward a decade or two to a more traditional tone...I tried hard to like the tweed sound, but it's not for me. Clean is fine but the overdrive.. not for me...

 

[thetragichero]

If you're used to marshall, they are a bit dull with heavy lowmid emphasis.. start with an eq pedal in front and pull down 400hz. That moves it forward a decade or two to a more traditional tone...I tried hard to like the tweed sound, but it's not for me. Clean is fine but the overdrive.. not for me...

exactly this. just sounded farty and unusable to me. i repurposed my 5e3 turret board to a sort of 6g3 with 6g5-esque tone stack and it sounds much nicer

 

[Gene Ballzz]

If you're used to marshall, they are a bit dull with heavy lowmid emphasis.. start with an eq pedal in front and pull down 400hz. That moves it forward a decade or two to a more traditional tone...I tried hard to like the tweed sound, but it's not for me. Clean is fine but the overdrive.. not for me...

exactly this. just sounded farty and unusable to me. i repurposed my 5e3 turret board to a sort of 6g3 with 6g5-esque tone stack and it sounds much nicer

It would be interesting to know the plate voltage of the 6V6s. Many builders can be kinda conservative with voltages down around 350VDC or less, where as the sweet spot is more like 368-373VDC. Huge difference, and the lower voltage can cause exactly the experiences you folks have described. Mine vies with my DSL20CR for #1 spot in my arsenal. Both sport '69 Pre-Rola greenbacks!
I Love My 5E3,
Gene

 

[Guitar-Rocker]

You may want to verify the tone stack/ pot wiring. Looking down into your amp, there's a cap on the far right hand pot. Typically that cap is usually on the middle Volume pot. There may not be anything different, but it's worth a look.

 

[Hebaton]

Thanks , I'll try moving that one just to see... just to ear actually

 

[Chris-in-LA]

Tryed the 4 x 12 It is surprising how much impact speakers have on this amp. I also removed and re installed all tubes, things changed a lot !
Still ordered a Jensen P12Q to replace the Weber alnico signature currently in it. I find it breaks up much to quick and colapses under bass frequencies.
Also on order a pair of Tung Sol 6V6 a Gold Lion 12aAX7 and a EH 12 AY7

That flabby bottom end is definitely part of the 5e3 sound. If you want to tinker, replace the two .1 coupling caps on the phase inverter with .022’s. That’s what Fender did on the Edge (U2) signature model. I changed out the .1 coupling caps on V1 instead, also a big improvement.

 

[Yamariv]

That flabby bottom end is definitely part of the 5e3 sound.

^^This^^ Sounds like you have a healthy 5E3 OP, don't change it, this stuff is what makes it a 5E3

 

[Hebaton]

I ordered and installed a Jensen P12Q and I am very very pleased ! HAvving much fun with this thing. IT needs getting used to but I am getting great tones both with an L.P and a Gretsch 6120 so far. Now I want to do the Rob Robinette NFB switch mod but I am uncertain about one thing. When I look at the example on his site, the CAP and resistor are attached to two different turrets. n my amp they are together, I suppose I could just seperate them and use a direct conection on the resistor. Am-I reading this correct ?

 

[Chris-in-LA]

I ordered and installed a Jensen P12Q and I am very very pleased ! HAvving much fun with this thing. IT needs getting used to but I am getting great tones both with an L.P and a Gretsch 6120 so far. Now I want to do the Rob Robinette NFB switch mod but I am uncertain about one thing. When I look at the example on his site, the CAP and resistor are attached to two different turrets. n my amp they are together, I suppose I could just seperate them and use a direct conection on the resistor. Am-I reading this correct ? View attachment 90124

I believe that Robinette added an extra eyelet to split that cap and resistor as they are normally connected in a 5e3.

 

[StrummerJoe]

The flabby bottom is legit part of the 5E3 sound.

 

[2L man]

You should be able to use SPTD switch legs for NFB mod. When three throw switch is use there comes three different settings. 1. NFB, 2. Coupling capacitor without NFB and 3. nothing, just bias resistor.

 

[2L man]

The flabby bottom is legit part of the 5E3 sound.

Yes and obviously more output transformer saturation than many other amps have.

Is it saturation what we hear as flabby lows or no NFB?

 

[Hebaton]

I am confused about the type of switch. Is it ON-ON-ON or On-OFF-ON ?

 

[Pete Farrington]

Yes and obviously more output transformer saturation than many other amps have...

I query that regular valve guitar amps with regular OTs exhibit OT saturation. ie output pentodes simply can’t deliver power into low impedance loads, and a saturated OT would lose its primary inductance, and hence would present a low impedance load.
So very onset of saturation is the best that could feasibly be achieved. Attempting to increase the excitation current any further will just cause it to self limit. So the OT’s BH curve can’t be pushed into the horizontal areas.
Why do you think OT saturation is occurring, eg what’s the evidence that’s what’s happening, and why would 5E3 obviously exhibit it to a greater degree?

My take is that 5E3 flub would more likely be due to bias shift, caused by the long time constants of its RC coupling circuits.

 

[StrummerJoe]

Yes and obviously more output transformer saturation than many other amps have.

Is it saturation what we hear as flabby lows or no NFB?

I'm not an amp expert, but I know I like my 5E3 for what it does. Don't know why or how, I just like it.