(2022) New Marshall Rumors:

Norfolk Martin

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I'd say start a organization TWOC The World Order of Curmudgeons but that would likely splinter off into several versions. The First Curmudgeons Org, The Curmudgeons First Org, The Org of First Curmudgeons.

Sounds like a Monty Python bit.
BAH! I don't hold with all these different curmudgeon orders. One was good enough for everyone when I was a kid. Don't know why anyone though they needed two. Harrumph!
 

Moony

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Any thing using electronic components and/ICU chips are going up like crazy. My company is experiencing severe component increases and if you dont pay they have demands from others just like that.

I'm glad that I still have tons of resistors, caps etc. which I've bought many years ago. I've seen them going up in price drastically.

Last year I've talked to a boutique pedal builder and he told me that he also has huge amounts of components on stock - but he's looking out for every new ones he can find.
It's pure competition. The first to see that a larger supplier has components again buys up everything, even if it's much more than they currently need, because nobody knows how much worse things are going to get.
 

vintmodJCM

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Only the Origin has been super successful and that's largely because it is (was?) super affordable- no "classic" sounding tube Marshall has ever been affordable. A sizeable percentage of fans felt "cheated" by the Vintage Modern (because they didn't understand what the amp actually was and trying to accomplish), so they are likely critical of new amps that would be along the same lines, but they still want the same thing- a hot rod plexi with some modern features. The Astoria series suffered from really bad marketing, extreme pricing, and an aesthetic that was polarizing. Marshall was in a weird place when the Astoria's came out.
Marshall has been, historically speaking, horrible at marketing. The Vintage Modern is a terrific amp that they struggled to explain to their market. Simply put, "Body" (Vol. 2, Channel II) and "Detail" (Vol. 1, Channel I) are equal to a channel-jumpered four-hole Marshall. To players & musicians that are familiar to channel-jumpering two channel Marshalls, this feature wasn't explained right and was misunderstood. To those new to Marshall, particularly nu-metal players, the amp wasn't "modern". To blues & classic rock players, the amp appeared to be "too modern". To classic NWoB Heavy Metal players, it lacked a built-in aggressive JCM tone. The market was there, but the marketing just didn't connect.

Marshall struggles with marketing. Origin, Astonia, Code, JMD:1, Vintage Modern, MA Series, Class 5, Haze, etc. are all good amps with features with specific market appeal but suffered from connecting with their respective markets. Marshall has always struggled with something as simple as the name of an amp.

And now they can't even celebrate 60 years in business without Jim Marshall with us. 😞
 

vintmodJCM

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People that DIY the classic Marshall through JCM 800 can get a better sounding Marshall than Marshall knows how to build...the end.
Of course I must disagree. Marshall does know how to build good amps and they certainly have since the JCM800. But they are a bit lost when it comes to marketing amps with the proper players. Really, they've never gotten that aspect of business right, which breeds a rep for not making good amps. Boutique builders aim straight for the niche market that they want by knowing them and fulfilling their needs & desires. Marshall started out that way.
 

XTRXTR

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Boutique builders aim straight for the niche market that they want by knowing them and fulfilling their needs & desires.
Perhaps my statement sounded harsh, it was not meant to be. As Ken points out Marshall listened to the musicians, requests and needs during a time that Rock and Roll was becoming huge from its infancy. You make the same point.

I am merely expressing the idea that in this time period, today, a DIY builder can take any Marshall, and lets extend that to all of the great 60s, 70s and 80s brands for loud tube amp schematics. Then copy the previously created amp with better quality while also implementing what many modifications are usually asked for from their techs. Even correcting some original design mistakes. Its not easy and it takes patience like a model builder trying to make an exact scaled replica of old sailing ships, and you have to do the research. Personally I don't build to sell but to improve the tones and options I like.
 

peterplexi

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I'd prefer the regular JVM circuit.
You could already buy a SC20H which is a 800 and add pedals.
Problem is that the space is limited, you can't get all the knobs a proper JVM requires on the front panel when using the same pots as on the other Studio amps.
But you could certainly strip it down and end up with something like the JVM-1 50th anniversary (with 2x EL34 then). But that's a bit pointless imho.
Also you don't need a 20W JVM if it's just because the volume aspect.
Even the JVM410H with 100 watts sounds very good at low volumes, because most of the sound comes from the preamp and it has a tight power amp with a lot of nfb.
The Satriani JVM is an improvement in every regard. Get with the program. Have you tried one?
 

Moony

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The Satriani JVM is an improvement in every regard. Get with the program. Have you tried one?

Yes of course.
I even thought about buying one when Thomann sold the nice blue halfstack for 1900 Euros (head and 4x12 cab).
But I honestly prefer the regular JVM soundwise so I skipped it.
The JVM HJS Satriani version is also not as good for low volume playing as the regular JVM, because it has the classic 100k at 4 ohms nfb (the regular JVM has much more nfb, 82k at 16 ohms).

I think the Satriani JVM is more of a niche Marshall with a special mid voicing that Satch needed because he runs a lot of effects.
He also played the JVM210H before within his Chickenfood stuff.
Santiago Alvarez said in the Tone Talk episode that Marshall brought him more or less the whole amplifier range - back then there was no JVM HJS around - so he can choose what he likes the best - and he grabbed the JVM210H and prefered it over any other Marshall. :)
 

V-man

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Here is what I would like to know at this stage in the “Anniversary”:

As of this post, we are at the midpoint between the year being 1/2 and 2/3 over. No NAAM appearance no amp announcement, just some stupid T-shirts on the site… whatever. However, there was an announcement of the 1980s pedals being reissued. Hardly a “diamond jubilee“ flagship amp (other than coincidence, I think that ship sailed with them on novel Anni amps), but it certainly was well-received news by the population at large.

With that said, WHERE IN THE FUCK ARE THEY?!?

Boss can crank out 3,200 ToneBenders, Mid-rona, and shift over to HM-Wazas (With a shortage and shipment issue). Marshall isn’t reinventing the wheel here, just put out 500 units of what was already done, maybe in some 60th scheme, then do those pedals in a standard scheme thereafter when they can catch up with the supply chain Issues. So, WTF??? :noplease:
 

MaskingApathy

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Here is what I would like to know at this stage in the “Anniversary”:

As of this post, we are at the midpoint between the year being 1/2 and 2/3 over. No NAAM appearance no amp announcement, just some stupid T-shirts on the site… whatever. However, there was an announcement of the 1980s pedals being reissued. Hardly a “diamond jubilee“ flagship amp (other than coincidence, I think that ship sailed with them on novel Anni amps), but it certainly was well-received news by the population at large.

With that said, WHERE IN THE FUCK ARE THEY?!?

Boss can crank out 3,200 ToneBenders, Mid-rona, and shift over to HM-Wazas (With a shortage and shipment issue). Marshall isn’t reinventing the wheel here, just put out 500 units of what was already done, maybe in some 60th scheme, then do those pedals in a standard scheme thereafter when they can catch up with the supply chain Issues. So, WTF??? :noplease:
I mentioned this earlier, they don't have plans to release anything now this year. Still trying to fulfill previous orders etc. It would be cool to see those reissued pedals though, I'm hoping they do it next year. No NAMM appearance doesn't really mean anything because lots of companies skipped NAMM this year.
 

V-man

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I mentioned this earlier, they don't have plans to release anything now this year. Still trying to fulfill previous orders etc. It would be cool to see those reissued pedals though, I'm hoping they do it next year. No NAMM appearance doesn't really mean anything because lots of companies skipped NAMM this year.
given the timeline, that seems obvious. The problem is that is complete bullshit. Amps I understand given a supply chain shortage. Pedals I do not, particularly when a limited run for Y-60 can be justified at a small premium and plain jane reissues happen thereafter.
 

Gain Man

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Marshall has been, historically speaking, horrible at marketing. The Vintage Modern is a terrific amp that they struggled to explain to their market. Simply put, "Body" (Vol. 2, Channel II) and "Detail" (Vol. 1, Channel I) are equal to a channel-jumpered four-hole Marshall. To players & musicians that are familiar to channel-jumpering two channel Marshalls, this feature wasn't explained right and was misunderstood. To those new to Marshall, particularly nu-metal players, the amp wasn't "modern". To blues & classic rock players, the amp appeared to be "too modern". To classic NWoB Heavy Metal players, it lacked a built-in aggressive JCM tone. The market was there, but the marketing just didn't connect.

Marshall struggles with marketing. Origin, Astonia, Code, JMD:1, Vintage Modern, MA Series, Class 5, Haze, etc. are all good amps with features with specific market appeal but suffered from connecting with their respective markets. Marshall has always struggled with something as simple as the name of an amp.

And now they can't even celebrate 60 years in business without Jim Marshall with us. 😞
Interesting point of view. When the Vintage Modern came out there was tons of information available and my personal impression was that this "Body and Detail" thing was very well explained. The consensus was more like "dialing it in well is challenging and too many people just couldn't figure it out or find the sweet spot".
Possibly this was a problem with wrong expectations of what this amp is designed to do. Calling it "Vintage Modern" may have been the biggest marketing mistake for this product.

I can't comment much on the other amps mentioned, but my perception here is also that each of these were supposed to serve specific purposes or represent a specific concept (e.g.: JMD = digital preamp with valve power amp) and that was clearly communicated.
Perhaps some of these amps were simply not what the market wanted (which is also a marketing problem).
And the MA series: I tried one and didn't like it. Too bright and no beef. Once Marshall decided to build the DSL overseas and could reduce the price tag, the MA became obsolete.

But this is just my humble opinion and I could be dead wrong.

So how about a mental exercise? What exactly went wrong with these mentioned amps and how could that have been avoided?

Let's take the Vintage Modern and the JMD for example. What should Marshall have done better to make these two a success?

Vintage Modern:
Different name like "Vintage Master Volume" or "Super Lead Master Volume"? The concept of this amp IMHO was more than sufficiently explained.

JMD:
I honestly don't know. The concept was clear. Either people want a modelling amp with a valve power stage, or they don't. And it seems like they didn't.
 

ken361

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Interesting point of view. When the Vintage Modern came out there was tons of information available and my personal impression was that this "Body and Detail" thing was very well explained. The consensus was more like "dialing it in well is challenging and too many people just couldn't figure it out or find the sweet spot".
Possibly this was a problem with wrong expectations of what this amp is designed to do. Calling it "Vintage Modern" may have been the biggest marketing mistake for this product.

I can't comment much on the other amps mentioned, but my perception here is also that each of these were supposed to serve specific purposes or represent a specific concept (e.g.: JMD = digital preamp with valve power amp) and that was clearly communicated.
Perhaps some of these amps were simply not what the market wanted (which is also a marketing problem).
And the MA series: I tried one and didn't like it. Too bright and no beef. Once Marshall decided to build the DSL overseas and could reduce the price tag, the MA became obsolete.

But this is just my humble opinion and I could be dead wrong.

So how about a mental exercise? What exactly went wrong with these mentioned amps and how could that have been avoided?

Let's take the Vintage Modern and the JMD for example. What should Marshall have done better to make these two a success?

Vintage Modern:
Different name like "Vintage Master Volume" or "Super Lead Master Volume"? The concept of this amp IMHO was more than sufficiently explained.

JMD:
I honestly don't know. The concept was clear. Either people want a modelling amp with a valve power stage, or they don't. And it seems like they didn't.
The VM is a great amp paired with greenbacks. Detail needs to high for that brown sound. It's close to my 5150 III but the EVH is fuller sounding and louder.
 

peterplexi

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Yes of course.
I even thought about buying one when Thomann sold the nice blue halfstack for 1900 Euros (head and 4x12 cab).
But I honestly prefer the regular JVM soundwise so I skipped it.
The JVM HJS Satriani version is also not as good for low volume playing as the regular JVM, because it has the classic 100k at 4 ohms nfb (the regular JVM has much more nfb, 82k at 16 ohms).

I think the Satriani JVM is more of a niche Marshall with a special mid voicing that Satch needed because he runs a lot of effects.
He also played the JVM210H before within his Chickenfood stuff.
Santiago Alvarez said in the Tone Talk episode that Marshall brought him more or less the whole amplifier range - back then there was no JVM HJS around - so he can choose what he likes the best - and he grabbed the JVM210H and prefered it over any other Marshall. :)
You couldn't be more wrong on most accounts. The HJS is not a niche amp but all of the classic Marshall amp tones in one box without all of the extra compression ( fake tone ) that the standard jvm has. To say say it is not as good at low playing? You don't know what you are talking about obviously. It is a modern high gain amp with a modern master volume. It sounds great at any volume.
 

Moony

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To say say it is not as good at low playing? You don't know what you are talking about obviously. It is a modern high gain amp with a modern master volume. It sounds great at any volume.

Install a nfb knob on a regular JVM, decrease the amount of nfb and listen how it gets louder - these are simple technical facts.
The JVM uses most of the overall sound from the preamp - so it does have a very clean power amp and doesn't need to be cranked to get the desired sound as it was intended (of course it also has some kind of a sweet spot, at least regarding the speakers who want to move a bit air).
The HJS has a classic 2203 nfb design and more classic gain stages (100k/2k7/.68u), ideally you crank it a bit to get the best sound.

I've got the schematics of both and know how they work.
The HJS works as good for low volume levels as a 2203. The JVM works better there. :)
 

shooto

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Funny, all this talk about Marshall failures with the VM and JMD…I have both and I’m holding onto them because 1) they are simply awesome Marshalls, 2) they do what they do VERY well, 3) they are really kind of in their own niche …you don’t get any other big recognizable model, like an 800 2203, straight up…for example, I’ve gone through 4 VMs (at different times) because I kept thinking I could cop it with the JMD…I could get REALLY close, but in the end, nothing sounds like a VM except a VM…so my VM, my 5th VM is my last and it’s not going anywhere
 

ken361

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Funny, all this talk about Marshall failures with the VM and JMD…I have both and I’m holding onto them because 1) they are simply awesome Marshalls, 2) they do what they do VERY well, 3) they are really kind of in their own niche …you don’t get any other big recognizable model, like an 800 2203, straight up…for example, I’ve gone through 4 VMs (at different times) because I kept thinking I could cop it with the JMD…I could get REALLY close, but in the end, nothing sounds like a VM except a VM…so my VM, my 5th VM is my last and it’s not going anywhere
Yeah the VM is very good it has that karrang and does 80's and low gain good. My new EVH 5150iii is a beast with 3 very good channels. Lots of low end chunk. My studios aren't getting much play time lately.
 

ibmorjamn

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Yeah the VM is very good it has that karrang and does 80's and low gain good. My new EVH 5150iii is a beast with 3 very good channels. Lots of low end chunk. My studios aren't getting much play time lately.
Funny thing , it seems like fender says a big FU to Marshall. They have knocked it out of the park. Marshall has done well up until end of 2021 but in 2022 they need to step up or get left behind .
Lots of options.
 


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