marshall vs230 r18 smoking

reedclifton · 11-10-2009, 02:07 AM

do i just change this out and life is good or do i have deeper issues?

i know how to solder have good equiptment and a multi meter but am very amature at electronics repair . good student though if someone can help me through this. thank you for your time.

reedclifton · 11-10-2009, 02:15 AM

felt i should clarify, its the r 18 on the smaller board in the rear of the amp with the headphone jack on it

reedclifton · 11-10-2009, 02:16 AM

i could post pics or vids or whatever will help

Wilder Amplification · 11-10-2009, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reedclifton

i could post pics or vids or whatever will help

No...anytime a passive component such as a resistor is getting hot, this means that whatever active device it's in line with is pulling too much current through it.

From looking at where that resistor is in the schematic it looks to me like you may have an output short. One of your output chips is more than likely fried, but there could very well be other things wrong that could cause this, or that caused the output chip to fry if that is determined to be the problem.

However, due to their complexity, solid state amps are DEFINITELY not for the amateurs/novices, and if you don't have any electronics theory/background, I highly suggest taking it to a tech.

reedclifton · 11-10-2009, 03:04 AM

Only one way to learn right ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification

No...anytime a passive component such as a resistor is getting hot, this means that whatever active device it's in line with is pulling too much current through it.

From looking at where that resistor is in the schematic it looks to me like you may have an output short. One of your output chips is more than likely fried, but there could very well be other things wrong that could cause this, or that caused the output chip to fry if that is determined to be the problem.

However, due to their complexity, solid state amps are DEFINITELY not for the amateurs/novices, and if you don't have any electronics theory/background, I highly suggest taking it to a tech.

Wilder Amplification · 11-10-2009, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reedclifton

Only one way to learn right ?

How good are you at reading schematics (and be honest)?

T-Bird · 11-10-2009, 04:12 AM

Hi.

Reedclifton, if the amp was free and You have no intention of ever selling it, go ahead and experiment. Learn, as You say

.

Jon is however more than correct with his statement. Once again.

Pretty good chances are that You'll eperience a phenomen called "smoke letting" and after the magic is gone, it's usually gone for good. Feasibly anyway.

Repairing a partly functioning amp is easyish, if You know what you're doing, but repairing a dead amp is far more difficult and not to mention expensive.

People tend to learn el-equip. repair by making experimental circuits with cheap parts and fiddling with those, not by destroying somewhat valuable items.

Regards
Sam

reedclifton · 11-10-2009, 08:20 AM

I took an electronics class in college . And I'm pretty good at things. I work on cars a lot , I've rebuilt engines, I have wired up guitars. My playstation 3 last week had the yellow light of death I reflowed the board with a heat gun and put fresh heat sync on the chips and now it works!

I have had the amp for 13 years so I think I got my $400 out of it. Would love to try and fix it myself with some help rather than throw money at it for labor.

Wilder Amplification · 11-10-2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reedclifton

I took an electronics class in college . And I'm pretty good at things. I work on cars a lot , I've rebuilt engines, I have wired up guitars. My playstation 3 last week had the yellow light of death I reflowed the board with a heat gun and put fresh heat sync on the chips and now it works!

I have had the amp for 13 years so I think I got my $400 out of it. Would love to try and fix it myself with some help rather than throw money at it for labor.

X2 on T-Bird's post.

What got me was when you came on and stated that the resistor was getting hot, the FIRST thing you asked was if all you had to do was change it out. This told me that you don't understand electronics enough to be working on a solid state amplifier without possibly blowing it up. Furthermore, I honestly don't think you're going to find anyone who would be willing to teach you simply due to the liability involved in the event that you misinterpret an instruction and cause more damage to the amplifier. This is just one of those areas where you're much better off taking it to a tech rather than risking more damage to the amplifier by trying to fix it with VERY limited electronics knowledge.

Just because you've "gone through the motions" of carrying out a repair (in reference to you reflowing the solder joints on your playstation) doesn't make you a tech nor does it mean that you have the knowledge to tackle a problem of this nature. I'm not telling you this to belittle you or discourage you from learning some basic electronics for future repairs. I'm doing this to help prevent you from causing more damage to your amplifier than what it has already endured. As T-Bird mentioned, it takes lots of experience and knowledge of electronics theory to figure out the SS amps. And I also agree with his statement in regards to people learning via building example circuits with cheap parts while reading along with a book, experimenting with the circuit, etc etc. Don't turn your amp into a "guinea pig".

reedclifton · 11-10-2009, 10:39 AM

seriously? what are you a lawyer? liability? you incur no liability from an internet forum!!! don't be like that .why would you be on this forum if you don't want to help people out. you sit there with your knowledge but don't want to share why be on here? is it that you want me to prove myself to you , come on man help me out

obviously i am not a tech or i wouldn't be here asking you for help.

come on man help me out im not an idiot just tell me what to do. i can follow directions. as far as practicing on something cheap.... its a marshall vs230. it has like 50 or so parts , whats the first thing i should do? check things out with my multimeter yes? trouble shoot yes? i have told you i can rebuild an engine , i have skills just not the knowledge of what the process is regarding an amp repair.

this amp had zero issues for 13 years then a few months ago it had a really loud siren scream when turned on. i took it to a local tech who is an authorized repair man, it cost me $100 for $5 worth of parts for an amp i can get for $200 on ebay working . im not putting any more money into this amp for labor .

seriously liability? come on help my ass out, even if i manage to blow her up how am i in worse shape ? the thing doesn't work! my wife is from simi valley next time in in la i'll take you to dinner or something in return .

reedclifton · 11-10-2009, 10:52 AM

whats smoke letting? how do i diagnose if this is what is going on?

Wilder Amplification · 11-10-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reedclifton

seriously? what are you a lawyer? liability? you incur no liability from an internet forum!!! don't be like that .why would you be on this forum if you don't want to help people out. you sit there with your knowledge but don't want to share why be on here? is it that you want me to prove myself to you , come on man help me out

obviously i am not a tech or i wouldn't be here asking you for help.

come on man help me out im not an idiot just tell me what to do. i can follow directions. as far as practicing on something cheap.... its a marshall vs230. it has like 50 or so parts , whats the first thing i should do? check things out with my multimeter yes? trouble shoot yes? i have told you i can rebuild an engine , i have skills just not the knowledge of what the process is regarding an amp repair.

this amp had zero issues for 13 years then a few months ago it had a really loud siren scream when turned on. i took it to a local tech who is an authorized repair man, it cost me $100 for $5 worth of parts for an amp i can get for $200 on ebay working . im not putting any more money into this amp for labor .

seriously liability? come on help my ass out, even if i manage to blow her up how am i in worse shape ? the thing doesn't work! my wife is from simi valley next time in in la i'll take you to dinner or something in return .

Smoke letting = slang for "letting the magic smoke out", which refers to smoking components.

OK first off...as I mentioned before, solid state amplifiers are very complex and unless I have the amp sitting in front of me, I can't even begin to tell you where to start checking. This is because when shit in solid state amplifiers blow, they take random parts with them everytime, and if you miss one component and fire it up to test, BAM! It fries again and takes other random shit. It's not the same everytime. I have a current limiter on the mains cord to protect from this for this very reason.

With valve amps, it's much easier cause there's only a couple of things that can fry when output valves short. But with SS, it's anyone's guess everytime, which is why you cannot find a straight answer as to how to fix one by Googling your problem. There are the normal components that fry, but there's other external components that they typically take with them and it's random as to which ones they do.

This is why you cannot simply just "dive in" to fixing a SS amp without any knowledge of electronics theory. As far as the sharing knowledge goes, I'd have to fill this foum's database up with posts of general basic electronics knowledge in order for you to understand what's happening in the circuit to be able to know what you're doing.

Second off...no, I'm not a lawyer. However, I do run a business that offers repairs as a service so I can be held liable for telling someone to do something to their amp that ends up making the actual fix more costly than it already is. On top of that, if you get injured or killed due to electric shock I can also be held liable for that.

There is no "set fix" for these things. With engines, if you have a cam go flat or spin a bearing, it's simple to tear the engine down and visually see that. Unfortunately it's not that simple with solid state amps.

reedclifton · 11-10-2009, 11:25 AM

if its all theory , you have the scematic right in front of you, you said. wouldn't this be the same thing as having the amp in front of you? the r 18 on the small board is fried and is smoking, this should point you in a direction no? i dont see anything else that visably looks fubared, except the small chip right next to it but , it looks like its just goo from the fried r 18 . like i said i can post pics, vids , and check with you to be clear on something before i touch anything. you did say random things can beeffected and i see how this could be daunting .

i have the time to check every single thing , just tell me how to check and what to check . barring random things lets work on the issue at hand the fried r 18. based on the scematic what do you feel caused this? i was using the headphone jack prior to this issue , i never use the headphone jack but was prior to this . next time i went to use the amp without it , it didnt work. now it doesnt work with the headphones either.

if you feel like you can be held liable from an internet post that you clearly stated you do not want to be held liable for , i will clearly sate right here I IN NO WAY WILL HOLD YOU LIABLE FOR ANYTHING BASED ON INFORMATION YOU PROVIDE, I REALIZE I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR MY OWN ACTIONS!

here if this makes you feel better "HYPOTHETICLY" "if" this amp were in front of you what is the first thing you would do? then the second thing? lets start from there .

reedclifton · 11-10-2009, 11:38 AM

i have found a scematic that was previously posted on this forums for the vs 230 but it is labeled v230-60-02

my boards are labeled v230-60-00 and the smaller board that has the fried r 18 is labeled v230 61-00

reedclifton · 11-10-2009, 12:18 PM

ok i found the one i need on dr tubes , it seems as though it is related to the headphone jack in some way? if i changed out that r 18 and didn't use the headphones think i might be in good shape?

reedclifton · 11-10-2009, 12:19 PM

http://www.drtube.com/schematics/mar...v230-61-02.pdf

Wilder Amplification · 11-10-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reedclifton

ok i found the one i need on dr tubes , it seems as though it is related to the headphone jack in some way? if i changed out that r 18 and didn't use the headphones think i might be in good shape?

No it is not. This is exactly what I was referring to.

** DISCLAIMER **

Before I state anything, I as well as Wilder Amplification is in no way shape or form taking responsibility if your amplifier ends up in worse shape than it already is. I've already warned you about the risks involved with troubleshooting an amp that you can't explain how it works, and since you insist on fixing it yourself, I will do my best to guide you but I as well as Wilder Amplification will not take responsibility if something happens to you or your amp.

And for the record, having the schematic is NOT the same as having the amp in front of me. The schematic is just an "electrical roadmap" to help find your way throughout the circuit. Without the amp, I can't measure resistance and voltage, nor do I have a way to test each individual component.

Now...just a bit of advice...you should really watch your tone around here. I don't normally help people who DEMAND that I help them out. But I am a helpful person by nature and hate to see "expensive to fix" operator caused problems (referring to the possibility of making things worse by trying to fix it yourself) happen to people's gear, which is why I am reluctant to help you in the first place.

Now, all that being said -

R18 gets an AC ground via C20. More than likely C20 is shorted, and it was more than likely caused by the TDA chip upstream of R18 shorting internally. I'd start with the chip and C20.

A little trick to replacing multi-pin inline DMOS chips. Use a Dremel tool to cut the pins off right at the base of the chip, then unsolder the pins from the board one by one.

You may also wanna look at the right side output chip as well along with its external components. More than likely, you may end up having to "shotgun" that whole board (shotgun is tech slang for replacing every component on a particular circuit board) as is often the case on SS amps, and the primary reason why I personally dislike working on them.

Before we go any further though, post up some pics of that circuit board so I can guide in greater detail.

reedclifton · 11-10-2009, 01:53 PM

thank you very much i have to run out for an hour or two , and will post up when i return , seriously i understand the risks involved , thank you for taking the time to help me honestly thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification

No it is not. This is exactly what I was referring to.

** DISCLAIMER **

Before I state anything, I as well as Wilder Amplification is in no way shape or form taking responsibility if your amplifier ends up in worse shape than it already is. I've already warned you about the risks involved with troubleshooting an amp that you can't explain how it works, and since you insist on fixing it yourself, I will do my best to guide you but I as well as Wilder Amplification will not take responsibility if something happens to you or your amp.

And for the record, having the schematic is NOT the same as having the amp in front of me. The schematic is just an "electrical roadmap" to help find your way throughout the circuit. Without the amp, I can't measure resistance and voltage, nor do I have a way to test each individual component.

Now...just a bit of advice...you should really watch your tone around here. I don't normally help people who DEMAND that I help them out. But I am a helpful person by nature and hate to see "expensive to fix" operator caused problems (referring to the possibility of making things worse by trying to fix it yourself) happen to people's gear, which is why I am reluctant to help you in the first place.

Now, all that being said -

R18 gets an AC ground via C20. More than likely C20 is shorted, and it was more than likely caused by the TDA chip upstream of R18 shorting internally. I'd start with the chip and C20.

A little trick to replacing multi-pin inline DMOS chips. Use a Dremel tool to cut the pins off right at the base of the chip, then unsolder the pins from the board one by one.

You may also wanna look at the right side output chip as well along with its external components. More than likely, you may end up having to "shotgun" that whole board (shotgun is tech slang for replacing every component on a particular circuit board) as is often the case on SS amps, and the primary reason why I personally dislike working on them.

Before we go any further though, post up some pics of that circuit board so I can guide in greater detail.

reedclifton · 11-10-2009, 04:54 PM

here is a series of moving frames as it's much better than 1 still frame .

reedclifton · 11-11-2009, 10:39 AM

was that video ok?

reedclifton · 11-21-2009, 03:09 PM

??? was it?

reedclifton · 11-21-2009, 03:15 PM

when you say the chip upstream from r 18 which one eactly is that? c 20? or should i just check them all?

Wilder Amplification · 11-21-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reedclifton

when you say the chip upstream from r 18 which one eactly is that? c 20? or should i just check them all?

The chips are IC1 and IC2. Replace those and any blown components you find around them.

reedclifton · 12-12-2009, 01:52 AM

ok sorry i was out of town. so i will pull those chips and order new ones , as well as the burned resistor , and report back. thanks so much man

11-10-2009, 02:07 AM	#1 (permalink)
reedclifton Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Maine USA Posts: 21	marshall vs230 r18 smoking do i just change this out and life is good or do i have deeper issues? i know how to solder have good equiptment and a multi meter but am very amature at electronics repair . good student though if someone can help me through this. thank you for your time.

11-10-2009, 02:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
reedclifton Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Maine USA Posts: 21	Re: marshall vs230 r18 smoking felt i should clarify, its the r 18 on the smaller board in the rear of the amp with the headphone jack on it

11-10-2009, 02:16 AM	#3 (permalink)
reedclifton Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Maine USA Posts: 21	Re: marshall vs230 r18 smoking i could post pics or vids or whatever will help

11-10-2009, 04:12 AM	#7 (permalink)
T-Bird Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Finland (Northern Europe) Posts: 214	Re: marshall vs230 r18 smoking Hi. Reedclifton, if the amp was free and You have no intention of ever selling it, go ahead and experiment. Learn, as You say . Jon is however more than correct with his statement. Once again. Pretty good chances are that You'll eperience a phenomen called "smoke letting" and after the magic is gone, it's usually gone for good. Feasibly anyway. Repairing a partly functioning amp is easyish, if You know what you're doing, but repairing a dead amp is far more difficult and not to mention expensive. People tend to learn el-equip. repair by making experimental circuits with cheap parts and fiddling with those, not by destroying somewhat valuable items. Regards Sam

11-10-2009, 08:20 AM	#8 (permalink)
reedclifton Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Maine USA Posts: 21	Re: marshall vs230 r18 smoking I took an electronics class in college . And I'm pretty good at things. I work on cars a lot , I've rebuilt engines, I have wired up guitars. My playstation 3 last week had the yellow light of death I reflowed the board with a heat gun and put fresh heat sync on the chips and now it works! I have had the amp for 13 years so I think I got my $400 out of it. Would love to try and fix it myself with some help rather than throw money at it for labor.

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11-10-2009, 10:39 AM	#10 (permalink)
reedclifton Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Maine USA Posts: 21	Re: marshall vs230 r18 smoking seriously? what are you a lawyer? liability? you incur no liability from an internet forum!!! don't be like that .why would you be on this forum if you don't want to help people out. you sit there with your knowledge but don't want to share why be on here? is it that you want me to prove myself to you , come on man help me out obviously i am not a tech or i wouldn't be here asking you for help. come on man help me out im not an idiot just tell me what to do. i can follow directions. as far as practicing on something cheap.... its a marshall vs230. it has like 50 or so parts , whats the first thing i should do? check things out with my multimeter yes? trouble shoot yes? i have told you i can rebuild an engine , i have skills just not the knowledge of what the process is regarding an amp repair. this amp had zero issues for 13 years then a few months ago it had a really loud siren scream when turned on. i took it to a local tech who is an authorized repair man, it cost me $100 for $5 worth of parts for an amp i can get for $200 on ebay working . im not putting any more money into this amp for labor . seriously liability? come on help my ass out, even if i manage to blow her up how am i in worse shape ? the thing doesn't work! my wife is from simi valley next time in in la i'll take you to dinner or something in return .

11-10-2009, 10:52 AM	#11 (permalink)
reedclifton Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Maine USA Posts: 21	Re: marshall vs230 r18 smoking whats smoke letting? how do i diagnose if this is what is going on?

11-10-2009, 11:25 AM	#13 (permalink)
reedclifton Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Maine USA Posts: 21	Re: marshall vs230 r18 smoking if its all theory , you have the scematic right in front of you, you said. wouldn't this be the same thing as having the amp in front of you? the r 18 on the small board is fried and is smoking, this should point you in a direction no? i dont see anything else that visably looks fubared, except the small chip right next to it but , it looks like its just goo from the fried r 18 . like i said i can post pics, vids , and check with you to be clear on something before i touch anything. you did say random things can beeffected and i see how this could be daunting . i have the time to check every single thing , just tell me how to check and what to check . barring random things lets work on the issue at hand the fried r 18. based on the scematic what do you feel caused this? i was using the headphone jack prior to this issue , i never use the headphone jack but was prior to this . next time i went to use the amp without it , it didnt work. now it doesnt work with the headphones either. if you feel like you can be held liable from an internet post that you clearly stated you do not want to be held liable for , i will clearly sate right here I IN NO WAY WILL HOLD YOU LIABLE FOR ANYTHING BASED ON INFORMATION YOU PROVIDE, I REALIZE I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR MY OWN ACTIONS! here if this makes you feel better "HYPOTHETICLY" "if" this amp were in front of you what is the first thing you would do? then the second thing? lets start from there .

11-10-2009, 11:38 AM	#14 (permalink)
reedclifton Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Maine USA Posts: 21	Re: marshall vs230 r18 smoking i have found a scematic that was previously posted on this forums for the vs 230 but it is labeled v230-60-02 my boards are labeled v230-60-00 and the smaller board that has the fried r 18 is labeled v230 61-00

11-10-2009, 12:18 PM	#15 (permalink)
reedclifton Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Maine USA Posts: 21	Re: marshall vs230 r18 smoking ok i found the one i need on dr tubes , it seems as though it is related to the headphone jack in some way? if i changed out that r 18 and didn't use the headphones think i might be in good shape?

11-10-2009, 12:19 PM	#16 (permalink)
reedclifton Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Maine USA Posts: 21	Re: marshall vs230 r18 smoking http://www.drtube.com/schematics/mar...v230-61-02.pdf

11-10-2009, 04:54 PM	#19 (permalink)
reedclifton Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Maine USA Posts: 21	Re: marshall vs230 r18 smoking here is a series of moving frames as it's much better than 1 still frame .

11-11-2009, 10:39 AM	#20 (permalink)
reedclifton Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Maine USA Posts: 21	Re: marshall vs230 r18 smoking was that video ok?

11-21-2009, 03:09 PM	#21 (permalink)
reedclifton Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Maine USA Posts: 21	Re: marshall vs230 r18 smoking ??? was it?

11-21-2009, 03:15 PM	#22 (permalink)
reedclifton Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Maine USA Posts: 21	Re: marshall vs230 r18 smoking when you say the chip upstream from r 18 which one eactly is that? c 20? or should i just check them all?

12-12-2009, 01:52 AM	#24 (permalink)
reedclifton Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Maine USA Posts: 21	Re: marshall vs230 r18 smoking ok sorry i was out of town. so i will pull those chips and order new ones , as well as the burned resistor , and report back. thanks so much man

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