MajorNut JCM 800 Build. - Page 2

Wilder Amplification · 10-26-2009, 03:50 PM

It's all a precautionary measure like everything else. The fact that things of this nature CAN happen and in some instances WILL happen, with any filter cap that will have high voltage strapped across it, we per"form" (pun intended) the forming procedure. It's not that hard to do and it definitely can't hurt, so why not? Use it as a pretest to make sure the cap will live for a length of time under high voltage. If it doesn't make it through the forming process as what happened to the Major, then it was a bad cap to begin with. I'd much rather have a problem of this nature show up during the forming process than fire the amp up with full voltage and have it happen that way.

For the record I've used the JJ 50+50 caps on 5 different amps that I've built and have never had one fail, but that's just been my experience. Others may differ.

MajorNut1967 · 10-26-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification

It's all a precautionary measure like everything else. The fact that things of this nature CAN happen and in some instances WILL happen, with any filter cap that will have high voltage strapped across it, we per"form" (pun intended) the forming procedure. It's not that hard to do and it definitely can't hurt, so why not? Use it as a pretest to make sure the cap will live for a length of time under high voltage. If it doesn't make it through the forming process as what happened to the Major, then it was a bad cap to begin with. I'd much rather have a problem of this nature show up during the forming process than fire the amp up with full voltage and have it happen that way.

For the record I've used the JJ 50+50 caps on 5 different amps that I've built and have never had one fail, but that's just been my experience. Others may differ.

Here's what's funny, It ran for 4 hours before it blew!

Birk · 10-26-2009, 07:01 PM

Thanx, this info comes in handy when I'll get new caps for my amps.
How do you hook it up when you're forming the caps?

MartyStrat54 · 10-26-2009, 09:50 PM

Hey...thanks for getting back to me about the tubes. I was curious, because this particular amp came from the factory with several different tube options.

I have several sets of Fat Boy 6CA7's. These NOS tubes are like a small KT88. Yes they do sound like big 6L6's. How can a 6CA7 be electronically equivalent to an EL34, but sound so different?

Well, the EL34 is probably the best choice. More tubes to choose from.

Rock On Hawaii!

Wilder Amplification · 10-26-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birk

Thanx, this info comes in handy when I'll get new caps for my amps.
How do you hook it up when you're forming the caps?

In order to tell ya I need to know what kind of amp you have first. You'll need a 100K 2 watt resistor.

If you've never worked on anything electronic and aren't familiar with the insides of a valve amp, take it to a tech. Just a fair warning.

MajorNut1967 · 10-26-2009, 10:50 PM

Ok I don't have much in the way of more photos, but here's the TAG Board.
Again the G-10 glass board is a scrap I had laying around, so it all scratched up. Nothing special or exciting. The only thing that is out of the ordinary is I used FRED Diodes in this amp.

MajorNut1967 · 10-26-2009, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Hey...thanks for getting back to me about the tubes. I was curious, because this particular amp came from the factory with several different tube options.

I have several sets of Fat Boy 6CA7's. These NOS tubes are like a small KT88. Yes they do sound like big 6L6's. How can a 6CA7 be electronically equivalent to an EL34, but sound so different?

Well, the EL34 is probably the best choice. More tubes to choose from.

Rock On Hawaii!

Hey Marty can you PM me with a price on the FAT BOYS please? The Sylvania NOS 6CA7's are a little too precious to me for a standard JCM 800. I do like the extra glassy tone the 6CA7's have and a little scooped on the mids.

You know its a good question, I have tried a few of the different 6CA7's and they do sound big different then an EL34! But they are both true Power Pentodes and basically the same electrically, except the Max G2 voltage is 425vdc on the 6CA7 verses 500vdc on the EL34. But I have found some very old 6CA7's that pin1 & pin 8 were tied internally!

Wilder Amplification · 10-26-2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorNut1967

Ok I don't have much in the way of more photos, but here's the TAG Board.
Again the G-10 glass board is a scrap I had laying around, so it all scratched up. Nothing special or exciting. The only thing that is out of the ordinary is I used FRED Diodes in this amp.

What are FRED diodes?

*sarcasm*

Seriously, would love to hear your opinion on those FREDs. Some say they're hype, others say they're the holy grail. Let's hear your story on them once your amp's up and running.

MajorNut1967 · 10-26-2009, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification

What are FRED diodes?

*sarcasm*

Seriously, would love to hear your opinion on those FREDs. Some say they're hype, others say they're the holy grail. Let's hear your story on them once your amp's up and running.

Well we are going to find out. I bought some just to test out on this amp! I dont believe bull balls about it but we will see.

American Viking · 10-27-2009, 01:39 AM

Where are all these parts coming from?

What kind of transformers are you going to go with?

Wilder Amplification · 10-27-2009, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Viking

Where are all these parts coming from?

What kind of transformers are you going to go with?

Decepticons

MajorNut1967 · 10-27-2009, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Viking

Where are all these parts coming from?

What kind of transformers are you going to go with?

Ok Manufacturers list: Mojo (chassis) Tube Depot (Passive components & Tubes & POTS) Mouser Electronics ( Diodes & Passive & Misc.) Chicago components (Transformers "trial run"). I made the TAG board from scratch.

AV I'm not much on boutique Transformers (MM and such) so I look for best price/best quality. You have to remember that Dagnall, Partridge and Drake are not super high-end Iron, just mass produced stock.

Wilder Amplification · 10-27-2009, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorNut1967

Ok Manufacturers list: Mojo (chassis) Tube Depot (Passive components & Tubes & POTS) Mouser Electronics ( Diodes & Passive & Misc.) Chicago components (Transformers "trial run"). I made the TAG board from scratch.

AV I'm not much on boutique Transformers (MM and such) so I look for best price/best quality. You have to remember that Dagnall, Partridge and Drake are not super high-end Iron, just mass produced stock.

Yeah but the problem is that nowadays the materials on today's "bargain basement" trannys are better than the materials that were used on trannys that were considered to be "bargain basement" back then, which is why they have no tonal character. It was those imperfections that the inferior materials of yesterday added that the better materials of today get rid of that rob the modern "bargain basement" trannys of their tone.

jcmjmp · 10-27-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorNut1967

AV I'm not much on boutique Transformers (MM and such) so I look for best price/best quality. You have to remember that Dagnall, Partridge and Drake are not super high-end Iron, just mass produced stock.

MM is expensive, mostly because they've spent a lot of time in studying the original transformers to make good replicas/replacements that match the specs of the originals as closely as possible. That's worth something.
Some of their transformers are actually pretty affordable and their customer service is second to none.

MajorNut1967 · 10-27-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification

Yeah but the problem is that nowadays the materials on today's "bargain basement" trannys are better than the materials that were used on trannys that were considered to be "bargain basement" back then, which is why they have no tonal character. It was those imperfections that the inferior materials of yesterday added that the better materials of today get rid of that rob the modern "bargain basement" trannys of their tone.

Here if you guys want to read this? I don't believe nothing till I here it!
Why Buy Your Fender and Marshall Type Amplifier Transformer From Us?

Wilder Amplification · 10-27-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmjmp

MM is expensive, mostly because they've spent a lot of time in studying the original transformers to make good replicas/replacements that match the specs of the originals as closely as possible. That's worth something.
Some of their transformers are actually pretty affordable and their customer service is second to none.

X2 on this

jcmjmp · 10-27-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorNut1967

Here if you guys want to read this? I don't believe nothing till I here it!
Why Buy Your Fender and Marshall Type Amplifier Transformer From Us?

They have a great website BUT one thing that bugs me is those sound clips. They don't even mention which model Weber, Heyboer or MM they used in the shootout and they don't compare construction quality, although I'm sure that Mag Components are a good deal.

Personally, I have a MM tranny in my Silver Jubilee. Very nice transformer and they did a good job at replicating it.
My Jube clone is all Heyboer trannies. Excellent quality, excellent tone and a little more affordable, depending on what you get.

MajorNut1967 · 10-27-2009, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by jcmjmp
MM is expensive, mostly because they've spent a lot of time in studying the original transformers to make good replicas/replacements that match the specs of the originals as closely as possible. That's worth something.
Some of their transformers are actually pretty affordable and their customer service is second to none.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification

X2 on this

There you go the Boutique Transformer guys, bunch a lolly girls! LOL
How much fu***** reverse engineering can you do? How much nit picking can you do on a transformer produced in the 50's or 60's? Do you really believe that winding a X-fer is equal to Atom splitting and the Merlin the Magician has something to do with it?

Do you really, I mean really think that Leo Fender or Jim Marshall sat at a work bench with a metallurgist, X-fer engineer and the Transformer Faries deciphering what was the "Most Excellent" transformer for their amps?
FUCK NO! excuse the language kiddy's. They bought the cheapest mass quantity transformers they could get, of decent quality! GROW UP!
All the Boutique Guru's are making tons of money off all you Lemmings and you guys spend your hard earned cash on this over-priced fluff willingly. Now go get me a bloody pint and shut it.

jcmjmp · 10-27-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorNut1967

Do you really, I mean really think that Leo Fender or Jim Marshall sat at a work bench with a metallurgist, X-fer engineer and the Transformer Faries deciphering what was the "Most Excellent" transformer for their amps?
FUCK NO! excuse the language kiddy's. They bought the cheapest mass quantity transformers they could get, of decent quality! GROW UP!
All the Boutique Guru's are making tons of money off all you Lemmings and you guys spend your hard earned cash on this over-priced fluff willingly. Now go get me a bloody pint and shut it.

You know, there's no need for profanity or swearing to make/prove your point.

In answering your question, no they didn't but the x-formers they used are now considered reference in terms of what makes a Marshall or Fender sound good.

Why do you think the re-issues don't sound as good as the originals? Mostly because the x-formers used in those re-issues are under-rated and cheaper than the originals.

There is a difference in transformers, just like there is a difference in Tubes, carbon comp vs metal film resistors etc.

One thing that is for sure, Jim Marshall used Military surplus parts when he first started. Today, Marshall uses the cheapest option, as long as it does the job.

Are you saying that you can't hear the difference between different output transformers? Can you tell the difference between tubes brands? Have you even a/b'd different transformers? if not, maybe you should try it and see.

Apostle Tone · 10-27-2009, 01:56 PM

I'm enjoying watching your build - Keep up the good work and thank you.

Wilder Amplification · 10-27-2009, 02:31 PM

You gotta understand the Major to not get offended by his demeanor. I'm actually glad to have him here...he makes me look like a master at political correctness.

However, the one thing to keep in mind is that even though Marshall was just using what was available at the time, the "what was available at the time" trannys were MUCH more inferior than the "what's available at the time" trannys that they make today. Today they make the "cheap" trannys better than they did back then from an engineering standpoint. Coming up with better materials and manufacturing methods to make them perfect and flawless, when the stuff from back then was far from perfect and flawless. It was those flaws that those "off the shelf what was available at the time" trannys had that made the magic, and the "off the shelf" trannys of today simply do not have that because they are made "better" from a engineering standpoint.

The boutique tranny companies...they're trying to recreate something that came about by accident. That's where the metallurgy and reverse engineering comes in. Just like when you're trying to nail a song down tight to the note that someone else happened to get right natrually in a one shot take.

jcmjmp · 10-27-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification

Today they make the "cheap" trannys better than they did back then from an engineering standpoint.

100% agree and very true, that's why its so hard to re-create the tone of those original trannies. Even the quality of the steel and iron is better.

If you take a stock transformer in a JVM, TSL, DSL or any other current production Marshall, you'll see that they are grossly under-rated and are cheap transformers for todays standards and in no way do they equal the performance of the older x-formers.

The quality of the trannies installed in Marshalls really started to go down drastically in the 90's. Even the JCM900 SL-X had weak trannies.

As for Magnetic Components vs Heyboer, MM or anything else, that's a different story. I'm sure that they are great value for a stock replacement.

MajorNut1967 · 10-27-2009, 03:03 PM

Ok here's Wilder's & my least favorite thing to do! Heater (Filament) Wires. Make sure use at least 18ga wire for EL34's @ 4 and jump up to 16ga wire for KT88 @ 4. Twisting the wire will help with 50/60hz rejection, it spoils the field around the wire's that have AC in them. Also keep them close to the Chassis and away from signal wires.

MajorNut1967 · 10-27-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification

You gotta understand the Major to not get offended by his demeanor. I'm actually glad to have him here...he makes me look like a master at political correctness.

However, the one thing to keep in mind is that even though Marshall was just using what was available at the time, the "what was available at the time" trannys were MUCH more inferior than the "what's available at the time" trannys that they make today. Today they make the "cheap" trannys better than they did back then from an engineering standpoint. Coming up with better materials and manufacturing methods to make them perfect and flawless, when the stuff from back then was far from perfect and flawless. It was those flaws that those "off the shelf what was available at the time" trannys had that made the magic, and the "off the shelf" trannys of today simply do not have that because they are made "better" from a engineering standpoint.

The boutique tranny companies...they're trying to recreate something that came about by accident. That's where the metallurgy and reverse engineering comes in. Just like when you're trying to nail a song down tight to the note that someone else happened to get right natrually in a one shot take.

I think we are going to adopt Jon and after we fatten him up well roast him in the ground with the rest of the meat.

You know you guys are lucky you have Jon to talk all nice & PC to you. I honestly don't give crap whether you like that way I sound or not I'm too old to care! LOL And honestly don't take anything I say too serious "Unless you are a total bloody wanker!", except when I am talking about SAFETY!

Wilder Amplification · 10-27-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorNut1967

I think we are going to adopt Jon and after we fatten him up well roast him in the ground with the rest of the meat.

You know you guys are lucky you have Jon to talk all nice & PC to you. I honestly don't give crap whether you like that way I sound or not I'm too old to care! LOL And honestly don't take anything I say too serious "Unless you are a total bloody wanker!", except when I am talking about SAFETY!

An' if you're not playing Gibson or Marshall...YOU'RE A WANKER!

Apostle Tone · 10-27-2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification

An' if you're not playing Gibson or Marshall...YOU'RE A WANKER!

Hey I resemble that remark.... Oh wait I do have a '78 Les Paul.

MajorNut1967 · 10-27-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostle Tone

Hey I resemble that remark.... Oh wait I do have a '78 Les Paul.

Hey don't own a les paul! Never would. I like an SG though.

Wilder Amplification · 10-27-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorNut1967

Hey don't own a les paul! Never would. I like an SG though.

What's with you Aussie wankers and your SG's?

MajorNut1967 · 10-27-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification

What's with you Aussie wankers and your SG's?

Listen here lady bloody muck, I'm not from Australia! New Zealand was where I was brought up, not "shrimp on the barbie" LOL

We drink Double-Brown not Foster. So if you want call the Aussie's a bunch of wankers go right ahead, but don't include me.

MajorNut1967 · 10-27-2009, 07:12 PM

Ok last of the passive parts came thru Fedex. So more pics later.

10-26-2009, 07:01 PM	#33 (permalink)
Birk Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 36	Re: MajorNut JCM 800 Build. Thanx, this info comes in handy when I'll get new caps for my amps. How do you hook it up when you're forming the caps? __________________ Cheers! Øystein

10-26-2009, 09:50 PM	#34 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: MajorNut JCM 800 Build. Hey...thanks for getting back to me about the tubes. I was curious, because this particular amp came from the factory with several different tube options. I have several sets of Fat Boy 6CA7's. These NOS tubes are like a small KT88. Yes they do sound like big 6L6's. How can a 6CA7 be electronically equivalent to an EL34, but sound so different? Well, the EL34 is probably the best choice. More tubes to choose from. Rock On Hawaii! __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-26-2009, 10:50 PM	#36 (permalink)
MajorNut1967 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: South Pacific Posts: 710	Re: MajorNut JCM 800 Build. Ok I don't have much in the way of more photos, but here's the TAG Board. Again the G-10 glass board is a scrap I had laying around, so it all scratched up. Nothing special or exciting. The only thing that is out of the ordinary is I used FRED Diodes in this amp. __________________ MJN1967 aka BA (Bad Attitude) 1968 model 1987 50watt. A Baby Major (Half-Power) I built from the ground up. JTM 45 Clone combo Ground up build. JCM 800 Clone Ground up build. Custom Built Warmoth Strat 75' Fender Tele-Deluxe '70 style strat custom build w/Custom Shop 69's PU's

10-27-2009, 01:39 AM	#40 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 1,510	Re: MajorNut JCM 800 Build. Where are all these parts coming from? What kind of transformers are you going to go with? __________________ -I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

10-27-2009, 01:56 PM	#50 (permalink)
Apostle Tone Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 35	Re: MajorNut JCM 800 Build. I'm enjoying watching your build - Keep up the good work and thank you. __________________ Ignorance+Ego+Insecurity+Technology=funny

10-27-2009, 03:03 PM	#53 (permalink)
MajorNut1967 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: South Pacific Posts: 710	Re: MajorNut JCM 800 Build. Ok here's Wilder's & my least favorite thing to do! Heater (Filament) Wires. Make sure use at least 18ga wire for EL34's @ 4 and jump up to 16ga wire for KT88 @ 4. Twisting the wire will help with 50/60hz rejection, it spoils the field around the wire's that have AC in them. Also keep them close to the Chassis and away from signal wires. __________________ MJN1967 aka BA (Bad Attitude) 1968 model 1987 50watt. A Baby Major (Half-Power) I built from the ground up. JTM 45 Clone combo Ground up build. JCM 800 Clone Ground up build. Custom Built Warmoth Strat 75' Fender Tele-Deluxe '70 style strat custom build w/Custom Shop 69's PU's Last edited by MajorNut1967; 10-27-2009 at 04:47 PM.

10-27-2009, 07:12 PM	#60 (permalink)
MajorNut1967 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: South Pacific Posts: 710	Re: MajorNut JCM 800 Build. Ok last of the passive parts came thru Fedex. So more pics later. __________________ MJN1967 aka BA (Bad Attitude) 1968 model 1987 50watt. A Baby Major (Half-Power) I built from the ground up. JTM 45 Clone combo Ground up build. JCM 800 Clone Ground up build. Custom Built Warmoth Strat 75' Fender Tele-Deluxe '70 style strat custom build w/Custom Shop 69's PU's

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode