MarshallForum.com
 
Go Back   MarshallForum.com > The Amps > The Workbench
LIKE MarshallForum on Facebook FOLLOW MarshallForum on Twitter
  
Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 10-20-2009, 12:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Mike_j's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 967
DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Hi,
I been reading a fair bit about the C12 mod on DSL 50 heads and have 2 questions:
1. Does it add more "body" to the red channel bringing it a bit closer to the fullness of the green channel, and take out some of the thin high end fizz?

2. Realistically, how hard is it for a complete beginner to do? Is it just a case of unsoldering the capaciter?

Any help/comments appreciated. Thanks.
__________________
"...the world is your oyster but your future's a clam..."
Mike_j is offline   Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Marshall Amps

Beitrag Sponsored Links

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on MarshallForum.com
   
Unread 10-20-2009, 01:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Wilder Amplification's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 6,165
Send a message via AIM to Wilder Amplification Send a message via MSN to Wilder Amplification Send a message via Yahoo to Wilder Amplification
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_j View Post
Hi,
I been reading a fair bit about the C12 mod on DSL 50 heads and have 2 questions:
1. Does it add more "body" to the red channel bringing it a bit closer to the fullness of the green channel, and take out some of the thin high end fizz?

2. Realistically, how hard is it for a complete beginner to do? Is it just a case of unsoldering the capaciter?

Any help/comments appreciated. Thanks.
Unless you have a solid grasp on basic electronics, I advise against attempting anything inside of a valve amp simply due to the high voltages that exist inside of them (up around 400-500 volts...much higher than what comes out of your wall). I suggest you take it to a reputable tech who's familiar with valve amps.

As far as the mod, I have no idea since I've never played much through a DSL amp other than to test one out after fixing it.
__________________
Jon Wilder

Wilder Amplification - The official home of the 80s cock of the walk "Schwank"

http://www.wilderamps.com

http://www.facebook.com/wilderamps
Wilder Amplification is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-22-2009, 04:10 AM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Mike_j's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 967
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Awesome. Thanks for that.
__________________
"...the world is your oyster but your future's a clam..."
Mike_j is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-22-2009, 07:44 AM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,114
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

C12 is a relative to a specific given set of board revision/issue numbers. It should be pretty simple to do but unless you know what the cap is supposed to do, it will be hard to determine if you're removing the correct component.

what is it that you're trying to fix? You want more bass on the Red Channel? Beware - too much bass on a high gain channel can lead to flubbyness.
jcmjmp is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-22-2009, 11:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Mike_j's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 967
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

jcmjmp

I'm finding the red channel too "thin". I'd like to get it a bit more full sounding.
I'm taking it to my tech guy tonite but I'd like to be able to offer up some suggestions to him.
__________________
"...the world is your oyster but your future's a clam..."
Mike_j is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-22-2009, 11:55 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,114
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_j View Post
jcmjmp

I'm finding the red channel too "thin". I'd like to get it a bit more full sounding.
I'm taking it to my tech guy tonite but I'd like to be able to offer up some suggestions to him.
Maybe your tubes need changing?

I can't describe the lead channel as "thin". Do you have an eq pedal or rack mount? If so, experiment with it in the loop and try to figure out which frequencies fill the sound up and take it from there.

"Thin" sounding is highly subjective.
jcmjmp is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-22-2009, 12:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Wilder Amplification's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 6,165
Send a message via AIM to Wilder Amplification Send a message via MSN to Wilder Amplification Send a message via Yahoo to Wilder Amplification
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Not knowing much about the DSLs having never owned one, according to the schematic for the DSL50, from what I can see C12 is a 470pF cap in the reverb recovery stage. If that's the case, I doubt a mod having anything to do with that cap will help you.
__________________
Jon Wilder

Wilder Amplification - The official home of the 80s cock of the walk "Schwank"

http://www.wilderamps.com

http://www.facebook.com/wilderamps
Wilder Amplification is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-22-2009, 01:06 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,114
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification View Post
Not knowing much about the DSLs having never owned one, according to the schematic for the DSL50, from what I can see C12 is a 470pF cap in the reverb recovery stage. If that's the case, I doubt a mod having anything to do with that cap will help you.
Wilder: As I've already stated in an earlier post, C12's location and function is different depending on the board you're looking at and the issue/rev you have...

He's probably referring to the treble bleed cap on VR3, on the control board.
jcmjmp is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-22-2009, 01:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Wilder Amplification's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 6,165
Send a message via AIM to Wilder Amplification Send a message via MSN to Wilder Amplification Send a message via Yahoo to Wilder Amplification
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmjmp View Post
Wilder: As I've already stated in an earlier post, C12's location and function is different depending on the board you're looking at and the issue/rev you have...

He's probably referring to the treble bleed cap on VR3, on the control board.
Based on this, am I to assume the component IDs on the master schematics mean nothing due to the few board revisions they've had on these amps over the years?

Or do they come up with updated schematics with revised component IDs everytime they revise a board?
__________________
Jon Wilder

Wilder Amplification - The official home of the 80s cock of the walk "Schwank"

http://www.wilderamps.com

http://www.facebook.com/wilderamps
Wilder Amplification is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-22-2009, 03:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,114
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

1) There's the HW board rev - JCM2-60-00 where the "00" is the rev number. This is a different physical board and layout, which also means different component IDs.
2) There's the Issue number. This is a "soft" change where certain component values might change, but its essentially the same board.

Schematics for the DSL specify which HW board and issue number they are for.

I'm actually working on a DSL info page that will contain some of this info, along with upgrade components and tips/tricks.

www.lydian.ca

If just have to get over my chronic insomnia and get some energy back before I can start putting some real time on the page. I also want to get my PT/OT protos tested.
jcmjmp is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-22-2009, 04:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Mike_j's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 967
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmjmp View Post
Maybe your tubes need changing?

I can't describe the lead channel as "thin". Do you have an eq pedal or rack mount? If so, experiment with it in the loop and try to figure out which frequencies fill the sound up and take it from there.

"Thin" sounding is highly subjective.
Thin, fizzy, no body of fullness to the tone. I want the red channel a little closer to the tone of the green but still retain some overdrive. Sorry, I can't be any clearer.
__________________
"...the world is your oyster but your future's a clam..."
Mike_j is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-22-2009, 04:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,114
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_j View Post
Thin, fizzy, no body of fullness to the tone. I want the red channel a little closer to the tone of the green but still retain some overdrive. Sorry, I can't be any clearer.
A bad tube could cause that, which is why I suggested a tube swap.

Looking for more bass? Low Mids? High Mids? Does it sound like you want with the deep switch in?
jcmjmp is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-22-2009, 05:01 PM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Mike_j's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 967
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmjmp View Post
Does it sound like you want with the deep switch in?
No. The red channel still sounds pretty gutless. Yes, the tubes probably do need changing and I'll get tech guy to do that. I'm not sure that would explain the tone disparity between the 2 channels. Either my amp is ****ed or it is the way the amp is designed.
__________________
"...the world is your oyster but your future's a clam..."
Mike_j is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-23-2009, 02:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: S.Jersey
Posts: 6,363
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Read this whole thread....there is lots of info and i'm sure you will find what your looking for in it....15 pages though
The Marshall Amp Forum: • View topic - DSL100 too bright compared to my 401, any ideas on modding?
Buggs.Crosby is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-24-2009, 03:13 AM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Mike_j's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 967
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Got it sorted. Thanks all for the help.
Took it to my tech guy who suggested changing the capacitors (that he felt were low quality), test it out in a band and recording situation BEFORE deciding to start pulling things out.
I felt it was good advice so I'll go with that. He also thought the power transformer was pretty shitty too and that could be in for a change a bit further down the track.
__________________
"...the world is your oyster but your future's a clam..."
Mike_j is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-24-2009, 09:58 AM   #16 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,114
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_j View Post
Got it sorted. Thanks all for the help.
Took it to my tech guy who suggested changing the capacitors (that he felt were low quality), test it out in a band and recording situation BEFORE deciding to start pulling things out.
I felt it was good advice so I'll go with that. He also thought the power transformer was pretty shitty too and that could be in for a change a bit further down the track.
Good Idea.
jcmjmp is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-24-2009, 09:54 PM   #17 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
MaidenStrat02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The Rue Morgue
Posts: 202
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

The C12 mod is pretty much automatic these days. Some people swap out different values, I clipped it. Cuts down on that harsh treble in the Ultra channel
__________________

White Schecter C-1 Hellraiser w\ original Floyd Rose
2 Fender Customized Strats
DiMarzio pickups
Modded Jcm2000 DSL50 W\Mercury Mag choke,PT,OT
Carvin Legacy2x12 w\V30's & Beam Blockers
Strobostomp tuner,TS808,EH LPB-1, BYOC CE-2 Analog Chorus, MXR Modded Phase 90, MXR Micro Flange, MXR Carbon Copy, MXR Smart Gate, Boss DD-7. George L and Monster Cables

MaidenStrat02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-29-2009, 12:22 PM   #18 (permalink)
Ken
Senior Member
 
Ken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Arlington Heights, IL
Posts: 8,326
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Hmm...on my DSL 50 the ultra channel is noticable brighter than the green channel like everyone talks about but it's not "harsh" at all. With the added distortion I like that brightness; to my ears it enhances the tone just right. I wouldn't change it.

Frankly I don't see the point on having both channels sound the same except for overdrive; I've read complaints about the shared EQ meaning you can't make them similar and I have no problem with it. It IS a TWO channel amp after all, not a one channel with a massive gain knob. Both channels SHOULD sound different!

Ken
Ken is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-27-2009, 05:47 PM   #19 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
AdamR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bethel CT
Posts: 717
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

This is the same issue Im having with my DSL50. The red channel just sounds think to me know matter how I EQ it.
AdamR is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-28-2009, 08:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
solarburnDSL50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wetville
Posts: 9,509
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamR View Post
This is the same issue Im having with my DSL50. The red channel just sounds think to me know matter how I EQ it.
Try this. Put the red channel on lead 2(button in):

Presence-0 to 2 or 3
treble-4
mids-7
bass-4 or 5 bass boost in
Gain-3 or 4
volume-3
Toneshift button out

Clean boost lead 1 to warm it up. Tubes that are warm and dynamic help. Speakers and cab can warm it up. EQ in the loop may help. Guitar and pick ups can warm it up. Acoustic foam placed a certain way on the speaker cab can control ice pick frequencies.

I'd mod it last but that's me.
__________________
Joey Voltage 2203 JMP on a stack of GB's=Panty dropping tone
DSL40C
Orange OR15


Martimus Maximus Tonepacks in my amps. TOOBS!

GR amplifiers. I've been thumped!


Thor's Hammer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin_Lisa View Post

Where the hell is dirty ole Joe at?
Its "Boo-tique" fellas cause that price scares the tone out of my fingers...
solarburnDSL50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-29-2009, 07:28 AM   #21 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
AdamR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bethel CT
Posts: 717
Re: DSL 50 C12 mod advice please

Thanks, Ill give those a settings a shot.
AdamR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:40 AM.


Find us on Facebook!   Follow us on Twitter!

Our Network: PRS Guitar Forum | Luthier Forum | SG Guitar Forum | Les Paul Forum | Music Gear Forum | 7 String Guitar Forum | Acoustic Guitar Forum

MarshallForum proudly supports St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

Copyright © 2005-2014, MarshallForum.com. All Rights Reserved.