Classic Rock --- Which Tubes??

luekemeyer · 09-06-2009, 12:44 PM

OK.. I know there are lots of posts on this topic, but I know tubes continue to change (quality, brands, ect.).. For playing 70's hard rock (KISS, Def Leppard, AC/DC,....) what tubes are the best to buy???

I currently have the JJ KT77's for power, and JJ ECC83's for preamp in my DSL 100.

Thanks..

rockinr0ll · 09-06-2009, 05:18 PM

Get some NOS also post this question in the Tube WWWWH thread. I'm sure you would get some good answers from there.

American Viking · 09-07-2009, 12:19 AM

For classic rock like AC/DC and KISS I don't really think different tubes is really going to make it happen, not with a DSL. To get that tone I'd be thinking more on finding a pedal to boost the green overdrive channel.
If you had Angus Young's amp and had KT77's in it, it would still sound like Angus Young's amp. Tubes are super important but between types of output tubes it doesn't change an amplifier altogether.
I would maybe try a 12AT7 in the phase inverter when using the red channel. This might round off some of the extra uneeded distortion. Maybe try them in other positions too.

solarburnDSL50 · 09-07-2009, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luekemeyer

OK.. I know there are lots of posts on this topic, but I know tubes continue to change (quality, brands, ect.).. For playing 70's hard rock (KISS, Def Leppard, AC/DC,....) what tubes are the best to buy???

I currently have the JJ KT77's for power, and JJ ECC83's for preamp in my DSL 100.

Thanks..

Just change your preamp tubes. They are all high gain and dark compared to a more balanced tube. Don't worry about the power tubes yet.

Current production preamp tubes maybe try a Mullard RI in V1 they are a lower gain 12AX7 and a Tung Sol in V2. V3 not so important what goes here except no Tung Sol or Mullard RI they can die there. I recommend a Sovtec LPS for the PI and nowhere else. Try an AT7 in V3 you may be pleasantly surprised.

In my DSL for classic rock tones I really like a JP 12AX7WA in V1 and a 7025 in V2. You can even reverse this but I like more of the flavor of the JP coming through so I put it in V1. Pretty much all of my NOS tubes will exude classic rock especially with a 7025 in V1. RFT's, Mullards and BP's paired with the 7025 all good choices. Lots you can do tube wise to help.

I use Winged =C='s for power tubes which I think helps as well with those classic tones. RFT's do too but are expensive.

The Green channel's crunch with the right pedal will do classic rock all day long.

jcmjmp · 09-07-2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Viking

For classic rock like AC/DC and KISS I don't really think different tubes is really going to make it happen, not with a DSL. To get that tone I'd be thinking more on finding a pedal to boost the green overdrive channel.

I have no problem getting real close to those tones and really, regardless of the amp you use, tubes, speakers or whatever, If you can't get real close with a DSL, you might as well give up playing guitar. Sorry dude. JCM800s are cool but are not the only amps that can deliver classic rock.

A good set of tubes is all you need, regardless of style of music you play. =C= in the power section, Tung Sol in the preamp and you're set.

American Viking · 09-07-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmjmp

Sorry dude. JCM800s are cool but are not the only amps that can deliver classic rock.

I didn't say that. I've got experience with most vintage Marshall heads and having owned a wide spectrum I can tell you my DSL doesn't sound like a JMP, JTM or 800. For AC/DC/KISS I would suggest a JMP over an 800 anyway.

I just answered a question with honesty, tubes aren't going to turn a modern gain monster into a vintage Marshall. Sure it can get kind of close, but tubes aren't going to completely change an amps tone 100%, and in my opinion, to get classic rock tones in that amp, tubes would be one of the last things I would look to.
Stand by what I said earlier, put whatever tubes you want in Angus Young's Marshall, it's still going to sound like Angus Young's Marshall. Put Soviet classic NOS limited edition vintage old stock 1 of 100 matched quad tubes in a DSL, it's still going to sound like a DSL. Slightly different variances of tone but it's still going to be the same amp.

American Viking · 09-07-2009, 11:54 AM

Unless you get get real crazy and go down to KT66 or 6V6 then at high volumes you will have crazy power tube distortion.

javier pintos · 09-07-2009, 01:32 PM

[QUOTE=solarburnDSL50;58534]Just change your preamp tubes. They are all high gain and dark compared to a more balanced tube. Don't worry about the power tubes yet.

Current production preamp tubes maybe try a Mullard RI in V1 they are a lower gain 12AX7

Would this help? (excerpted form eurotubes)

ECC803 S - 12AX7
Factory description: Classic long plate European design with special grid plated by gold to reduce microphone interaction and noise.
My observations: This is the latest 12AX7 offering from JJ and once again it's a beautiful sounding tube. It's the longest plate 12AX7 type tube ever made. It has the same deep, tight low end that the ECC83S has but the mids in the ECC803S are even thicker and more harmonically complex than the ECC83S. The ECC803S is also a little hotter in the high end than the ECC83S. These are however not as high in gain as the JJ ECC83S. The ECC803S's are about 10% lower in gain.

TubeStack · 09-07-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Viking

... I would maybe try a 12AT7 in the phase inverter when using the red channel. This might round off some of the extra uneeded distortion. Maybe try them in other positions too.

Sounds good to me.

TubeStack · 09-07-2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javier pintos

Would this help? (excerpted form eurotubes)

ECC803 S - 12AX7
Factory description: Classic long plate European design with special grid plated by gold to reduce microphone interaction and noise.
My observations: This is the latest 12AX7 offering from JJ and once again it's a beautiful sounding tube. It's the longest plate 12AX7 type tube ever made. It has the same deep, tight low end that the ECC83S has but the mids in the ECC803S are even thicker and more harmonically complex than the ECC83S. The ECC803S is also a little hotter in the high end than the ECC83S. These are however not as high in gain as the JJ ECC83S. The ECC803S's are about 10% lower in gain.

Sounds like it'd be worth a try.

solarburnDSL50 · 09-07-2009, 01:58 PM

[quote=javier pintos;58610]

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarburnDSL50

Just change your preamp tubes. They are all high gain and dark compared to a more balanced tube. Don't worry about the power tubes yet.

Current production preamp tubes maybe try a Mullard RI in V1 they are a lower gain 12AX7

Would this help? (excerpted form eurotubes)

ECC803 S - 12AX7
Factory description: Classic long plate European design with special grid plated by gold to reduce microphone interaction and noise.
My observations: This is the latest 12AX7 offering from JJ and once again it's a beautiful sounding tube. It's the longest plate 12AX7 type tube ever made. It has the same deep, tight low end that the ECC83S has but the mids in the ECC803S are even thicker and more harmonically complex than the ECC83S. The ECC803S is also a little hotter in the high end than the ECC83S. These are however not as high in gain as the JJ ECC83S. The ECC803S's are about 10% lower in gain.

I haven't used the ECC803S's but I have the 83S's. So from practical experience I cannot say. I just wanted to offer some other tubes besides JJ's which sometimes I wonder if alot of players get steered that way here without trying others as well. Nothing against Eurotubes which happen to only sell JJ tubes and will present them as a better tube. I actually tried them and prefer other tubes so I don't agree with the write ups there.

I do appreciate the how to bias vids there though which is how I learned to do mine. That was invaluable to me so I am a fan in that regard. Just don't like the JJ preamp tubes I've tried in my amp when it was in its stock form.

guitarman8 · 09-07-2009, 08:26 PM

I have DSL401 and have it's original marshall white logo preamp tubes. I tried the Chinese Grove tube and plain chinese type preamp tubes and found the sound fender like thin and a little bright. I didn't mind the bright but the Marshall tubes give a more solid note, wider less elastic, solid under attack.

The distortion part, the marshalls need the preamp gain up 2 numbers from the Chinese type to reach the same lenght of sustain.

I prefer the Marshall long plates.

Dang opinionated newbie, how you doing?

gtrman · 09-08-2009, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmjmp

I have no problem getting real close to those tones and really, regardless of the amp you use, tubes, speakers or whatever, If you can't get real close with a DSL, you might as well give up playing guitar. Sorry dude. JCM800s are cool but are not the only amps that can deliver classic rock.

A good set of tubes is all you need, regardless of style of music you play. =C= in the power section, Tung Sol in the preamp and you're set.

Well, I totally agree with the Viking. I have the DSL and the JCM800, and by far the JCM800 delivers classic rock a lot better in my ears. I play in a cover band which features alot of 80's rock tunes and I've tried pretty much all my amps (including several non Marshalls) and my bandmates agree... the JCM800 is the one.
The DSL sounds good in it's own way and you can get somewhat close ... but .. no sigar !

jcmjmp · 09-08-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtrman

Well, I totally agree with the Viking. I have the DSL and the JCM800, and by far the JCM800 delivers classic rock a lot better in my ears. I play in a cover band which features alot of 80's rock tunes and I've tried pretty much all my amps (including several non Marshalls) and my bandmates agree... the JCM800 is the one.
The DSL sounds good in it's own way and you can get somewhat close ... but .. no sigar !

Yes, agreed but I wouldn't say you just can't do it with a DSL.

I think that the key thing is technique, guitar pickups and a good set of tubes. =C= are great.

gtrman · 09-08-2009, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmjmp

Yes, agreed but I wouldn't say you just can't do it with a DSL.

I think that the key thing is technique, guitar pickups and a good set of tubes. =C= are great.

Yes ... the amp is just ONE of several things that needs to be in place in order to get the 80's rock sound.
Never tried Winged C's before. Can't say I've ever come across any in the shops/netshops over here in Norway. I'll definitely get some if I see any.

solarburnDSL50 · 09-08-2009, 10:18 AM

I thought we were talking about the 70's rock not the 80's. DSL's crunch channel boosted all day long. I'd go head to head with an 800 for that era. Actually probably use a JTM45 for that era especially for the ACDC but the DSL with pedals really will cover alot of those classic sounds perty damn close. You'd be split'n hairs live I think. Oh well. No matter. No need to buy another amp. Set that DSL up right and it will get there.

javier pintos · 09-08-2009, 11:35 AM

i use my dsl on green crunch with the gain at 7 , mid and treble at 2 oclock and bas at noon, presence has change to about 10 oclock, tone shift engaged and my LP studio on bridge, vol 4 - 6 and get good results for my ears on ACDC

jj´s 83s on preamp and E34L on power, above 6 on the vol i start getting some harshnes

MartyStrat54 · 09-09-2009, 06:01 PM

If we go to far back with Classic Rock, I'll have to get my Peavey MACE out. That's what I was using before I bought my first Marshall amp...an 800.

"Did someone say that they wanted to hear FREEBIRD?"

09-06-2009, 12:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
luekemeyer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Calif Posts: 439	Classic Rock --- Which Tubes?? OK.. I know there are lots of posts on this topic, but I know tubes continue to change (quality, brands, ect.).. For playing 70's hard rock (KISS, Def Leppard, AC/DC,....) what tubes are the best to buy??? I currently have the JJ KT77's for power, and JJ ECC83's for preamp in my DSL 100. Thanks.. __________________ --------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/Earnhardt12345 JCM 2000 DSL 100 & MC412 Cab Crate Blue Voodoo BV-120H and 4x12 Cab ADA 1/2 Cab POD X3 Live VOX ToneLab Tube Screamer Flanger Phase 90 Chorus Crybaby Wah Epi Les Paul Plus Top - Dimarzio Super Distortions Dean Dime Shadow ML - Dimebucker bridge Ibanez RG - Van Halen II paint job - Dimebucker Kramer Aerostar Fender Squire Strat(From Corona Plant employee sale)

09-06-2009, 05:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
rockinr0ll Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,340	Re: Classic Rock --- Which Tubes?? Get some NOS also post this question in the Tube WWWWH thread. I'm sure you would get some good answers from there.

09-07-2009, 12:19 AM	#3 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 1,510	Re: Classic Rock --- Which Tubes?? For classic rock like AC/DC and KISS I don't really think different tubes is really going to make it happen, not with a DSL. To get that tone I'd be thinking more on finding a pedal to boost the green overdrive channel. If you had Angus Young's amp and had KT77's in it, it would still sound like Angus Young's amp. Tubes are super important but between types of output tubes it doesn't change an amplifier altogether. I would maybe try a 12AT7 in the phase inverter when using the red channel. This might round off some of the extra uneeded distortion. Maybe try them in other positions too. __________________ -I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

09-07-2009, 11:54 AM	#7 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 1,510	Re: Classic Rock --- Which Tubes?? Unless you get get real crazy and go down to KT66 or 6V6 then at high volumes you will have crazy power tube distortion. __________________ -I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

09-07-2009, 01:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
javier pintos Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Mexico Posts: 323	Re: Classic Rock --- Which Tubes?? [QUOTE=solarburnDSL50;58534]Just change your preamp tubes. They are all high gain and dark compared to a more balanced tube. Don't worry about the power tubes yet. Current production preamp tubes maybe try a Mullard RI in V1 they are a lower gain 12AX7 Would this help? (excerpted form eurotubes) ECC803 S - 12AX7 Factory description: Classic long plate European design with special grid plated by gold to reduce microphone interaction and noise. My observations: This is the latest 12AX7 offering from JJ and once again it's a beautiful sounding tube. It's the longest plate 12AX7 type tube ever made. It has the same deep, tight low end that the ECC83S has but the mids in the ECC803S are even thicker and more harmonically complex than the ECC83S. The ECC803S is also a little hotter in the high end than the ECC83S. These are however not as high in gain as the JJ ECC83S. The ECC803S's are about 10% lower in gain.

09-07-2009, 08:26 PM	#12 (permalink)
guitarman8 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: San Francisco Posts: 9	Re: Classic Rock --- Which Tubes?? I have DSL401 and have it's original marshall white logo preamp tubes. I tried the Chinese Grove tube and plain chinese type preamp tubes and found the sound fender like thin and a little bright. I didn't mind the bright but the Marshall tubes give a more solid note, wider less elastic, solid under attack. The distortion part, the marshalls need the preamp gain up 2 numbers from the Chinese type to reach the same lenght of sustain. I prefer the Marshall long plates. Dang opinionated newbie, how you doing?

09-08-2009, 11:35 AM	#17 (permalink)
javier pintos Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Mexico Posts: 323	Re: Classic Rock --- Which Tubes?? i use my dsl on green crunch with the gain at 7 , mid and treble at 2 oclock and bas at noon, presence has change to about 10 oclock, tone shift engaged and my LP studio on bridge, vol 4 - 6 and get good results for my ears on ACDC jj´s 83s on preamp and E34L on power, above 6 on the vol i start getting some harshnes

09-09-2009, 06:01 PM	#18 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Classic Rock --- Which Tubes?? If we go to far back with Classic Rock, I'll have to get my Peavey MACE out. That's what I was using before I bought my first Marshall amp...an 800. "Did someone say that they wanted to hear FREEBIRD?" __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

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