DSL 100 woes (surprise, surprise..!)

mrstab · 09-02-2009, 04:12 PM

Hi guys, how's it going?

i'm a bit of a noob here-a noob with an irritating problem.
unfortunately i'm pretty clueless with valve amps in general, but i'm slowly learning and trying to make sure i don't do anything too stupid.

anyways, recently i took my DSL 100 head in for service as it stopped working-turned out it was the power amp tubes. A new set of Electro-Harmonix EL34's later, and everything was fine... for about a week. In fact this happened on the fourth time i'd used it since i got it back:

after less than five minutes of playing, the sound cut out. The Ultra-Gain channel is still (barely) audible-though it's been cut by at least 90%. The Clean channel has the same issue, but the sound on that's gotten choppy as well as extremely low.

i tried searching for similar threads, but i couldn't find anything that seemed to be along the same lines as my problem and i didn't want to risk assuming that it was something else entirely, given my supreme nubishness.
at a total guess, im thinking maybe it could be the preamp tubes this time, which weren't replaced..? but as i say, i'm not knowledgeable enough to make conclusions like that.

any ideas would be really appreciated.

MartyStrat54 · 09-02-2009, 05:03 PM

Your V1 tube (in the shielded can) may have crapped out. I would buy a Mullard RI or a Tung-Sol and replace V1. If that makes it better, I would recommend changing out the other three tubes. If you have any tube questions send me a PM.

javier pintos · 09-02-2009, 05:09 PM

something similar happened to my dsl head also, it ended up beign the v3, changed and voila got back in bus, funny thing i installed it in my avt50 and it works, put it back in the dsl and it does not work on the same possition, soemtimes the experts here recomend to test it at a different possition and they work, go figure, i just changed it for the one on my avt and everything is been smoth for several months on both amps

MartyStrat54 · 09-02-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javier pintos

something similar happened to my dsl head also, it ended up beign the v3, changed and voila got back in bus, funny thing i installed it in my avt50 and it works, put it back in the dsl and it does not work on the same possition, soemtimes the experts here recomend to test it at a different possition and they work, go figure, i just changed it for the one on my avt and everything is been smoth for several months on both amps

Well Javier, that's why I insist on NOS tubes. They work in whatever slot you put them in. Oh, they sound better too. Right now, some current production tubes are failing in V3 (tone stack/cathode follower circuit), because of plate voltage. Yes, even the little 12AX7's have to put up with some higher voltages in regard to what circuit they are in.

VIVA LA NOS TUBES!!!

mrstab · 09-02-2009, 06:25 PM

Thanks for the responses, guys.

as per Marty's advice, i'm thinking of picking up a Tung-Sol 12AX7 to try out in V1 (or wherever the faulty tube turns out to be).

i know ideally it's better to buy a whole set, but i'm on a limited budget unfortunately. luckily i don't have any engagements on the horizon just now.

javier pintos · 09-02-2009, 06:31 PM

i´m close to doing a retube of my dsl100, on the power tubes i´m thinking on going for the jjs kt77 (i have a mix of JJe34L and other tube at the time, and have no idea when they were installed) or anyother thing that helps me tame a bit the mid/hight which i feel are a bit harsh/shrill, i can feel it inside my ears tickling if you know what i mean

on the preamp so far i´m sort of happy with the jjs, however our band is getting into some music that requires me to use more effects since we do not have a keybord player i try to emulate with my guitar and i need a cleaner (cleaner that crunch set up for classic rock) clean channel and i end up with the ultra to do the ACDC, Metallica, Led Zep, and other types of classic rock using the volume on the guitar

i could always use just the clean and crunch but it takes a button and a volume and gain adjustment with the lead channel i would just use the mode button, been trying the governor emulation from my boss ME on the clean channel to avoid this, but i just have not found the right setting to have the crunch at my feet and it seems just an awfull waste of tube tone to do that

Long story short what would you recomend for the preamp?, i do rythm work only (with my LP Studio and a strat with dimarzio rails for backup) and keyboard emulations from rush and other more modern bands, we are all cover band by the way

sorry to hijack the thread

jcmjmp · 09-02-2009, 06:38 PM

Why go with KT's? IMO, A good set of =C= EL-34, properly biased of course, is all you need.

Is it the high end that's bothering you? Turn down the treble a little. You could also try a larger V1 screen grid resistor. Those JJs are pretty dark sounding to start with though. You should be fine with those. If you want cleaner, use the green channel and back off the gain, that's all.

Maybe the speakers are at fault for that high end. Could also be the guitar. Who knows for sure? There's so many variables, its hard for anyone to really recommend anything that'll work 100%

javier pintos · 09-03-2009, 09:09 PM

i have the treble at 1 oclock and presence set at noon, mids about 1 oclock, and bass at noon, with the tone shift engaged/diengaged everything sounds fine at low volumes, when i go above 4 but mostly above 5/6 on the volume is when things start getting shrill/harsh (on both channels), my gain is about noon and roll off the guitar volume

I have noticed that after a while i get a sound change/volume drop at higher volumes and i have no idea how old the tubes are so they need a change (maybe that is the cause of the harshness?), but i would like to have something smooth enough no to become harsh as higher volumes, but still sound good at volumes 1 - 4 with only preamp dist (for room practice

), and sound the best at gig volume

By the way my 4x12 is a V30 + G12H anniversary mix (slant) in a x pattern config

i just got a i just got an ibanez OD9 so i´ll try the classic channel at clean and use the OD just to get an idea of analog dist vs my Multieffect, and then take it form there

MaidenStrat02 · 09-04-2009, 06:35 PM

I definitely wouldn't have the presence that high. Have you tried the C12 mod on the controller board? that removes some of the harshness. I tend to stay on the green channel, the red's to fizzy for some stuff.

javier pintos · 09-05-2009, 12:11 AM

tkx maiden, i´ll try the presencde first, tubes must have a change and then think bout mods since i´m in mexico and i don´t really know anyone that could do the mods, and have it done in the US will be troublesome, of course i can do it myself with an iron i´m supposed to be an electronic engineer so is not really a troble, what the value of the c12 should be changed to?

BrotherJ · 09-05-2009, 06:14 AM

Give the amp a shot with the treble and presence backed down first, but if it's still too bright, change the C12 cap for something like a 180pf cap. You can completely remove the cap but if you still want some highs in there with lower gain settings then you might want to just test different values until you have something you like.

For the fizzy gain, try a 390pf cap accross R1 resistor on the main circuit board. I've done this on every DSL/TSL i've owned and it definitely helps tame that piercing treble!

Theres more you can do, pm me if you want to go even further with the treble taming!

MaidenStrat02 · 09-05-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherJ

For the fizzy gain, try a 390pf cap accross R1 resistor on the main circuit board. I've done this on every DSL/TSL i've owned and it definitely helps tame that piercing treble!

2 questions to clarify:
1 does this affect all channels or just the red channel? I like the way my green channel is and I wouldn't want to change the tone.
2 When you say the main board are you talking about the board with the control pots on it or the large board with the filter caps?
I'm interested in trying this if it tames the red channel.
Thanks

axl2 · 09-05-2009, 01:54 PM

I'm always nervous to screw around with this stuff in fair of fucking something up really good lol.

BrotherJ · 09-05-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaidenStrat02

2 questions to clarify:
1 does this affect all channels or just the red channel? I like the way my green channel is and I wouldn't want to change the tone.
2 When you say the main board are you talking about the board with the control pots on it or the large board with the filter caps?
I'm interested in trying this if it tames the red channel.
Thanks

Hi,

Because the CF & tone stack driver punching signal through the shared EQ on the DSL you will notice a little effect on the clean channel but it is more noticeable on the Red channel, however i've found it delivering a desireable result. (On a TSL it only affects the Crunch and Lead channels)

If you just wanted to affect the red channel only leaving the clean channel completely uneffected, try a 250pf cap on R23 of the main board.

Main board = the one with the filter caps

Let us know how it goes

BrotherJ · 09-05-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axl2

I'm always nervous to screw around with this stuff in fair of fucking something up really good lol.

To be cautious is a good thing

MaidenStrat02 · 09-06-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherJ

Hi,

Because the CF & tone stack driver punching signal through the shared EQ on the DSL you will notice a little effect on the clean channel but it is more noticeable on the Red channel, however i've found it delivering a desireable result. (On a TSL it only affects the Crunch and Lead channels)

If you just wanted to affect the red channel only leaving the clean channel completely uneffected, try a 250pf cap on R23 of the main board.

Main board = the one with the filter caps

Let us know how it goes

Will do, I probably won't crack it open for a couple of weeks but I'll let you know what I think. I'm thinking of doing the 390 across R1; what would happen if you did the 250 on R23 too?

BrotherJ · 09-06-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaidenStrat02

Will do, I probably won't crack it open for a couple of weeks but I'll let you know what I think. I'm thinking of doing the 390 across R1; what would happen if you did the 250 on R23 too?

Hey,
It would probably be a bit too much treble attenuation. You will know when you've gone too far, the sound just doesnt have that bite to it, even when turning up the treble knob to higher levels. You only want to shave a bit off the 'piercing' treble and keep the good high end.

You can use test clips to hold different values across the resistor to test out before you solder it on.

09-02-2009, 04:12 PM	#1 (permalink)
mrstab Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Scotland Posts: 2	DSL 100 woes (surprise, surprise..!) Hi guys, how's it going? i'm a bit of a noob here-a noob with an irritating problem. unfortunately i'm pretty clueless with valve amps in general, but i'm slowly learning and trying to make sure i don't do anything too stupid. anyways, recently i took my DSL 100 head in for service as it stopped working-turned out it was the power amp tubes. A new set of Electro-Harmonix EL34's later, and everything was fine... for about a week. In fact this happened on the fourth time i'd used it since i got it back: after less than five minutes of playing, the sound cut out. The Ultra-Gain channel is still (barely) audible-though it's been cut by at least 90%. The Clean channel has the same issue, but the sound on that's gotten choppy as well as extremely low. i tried searching for similar threads, but i couldn't find anything that seemed to be along the same lines as my problem and i didn't want to risk assuming that it was something else entirely, given my supreme nubishness. at a total guess, im thinking maybe it could be the preamp tubes this time, which weren't replaced..? but as i say, i'm not knowledgeable enough to make conclusions like that. any ideas would be really appreciated.

09-02-2009, 05:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: DSL 100 woes (surprise, surprise..!) Your V1 tube (in the shielded can) may have crapped out. I would buy a Mullard RI or a Tung-Sol and replace V1. If that makes it better, I would recommend changing out the other three tubes. If you have any tube questions send me a PM. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

09-02-2009, 05:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
javier pintos Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Mexico Posts: 323	Re: DSL 100 woes (surprise, surprise..!) something similar happened to my dsl head also, it ended up beign the v3, changed and voila got back in bus, funny thing i installed it in my avt50 and it works, put it back in the dsl and it does not work on the same possition, soemtimes the experts here recomend to test it at a different possition and they work, go figure, i just changed it for the one on my avt and everything is been smoth for several months on both amps

09-02-2009, 06:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
mrstab Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Scotland Posts: 2	Re: DSL 100 woes (surprise, surprise..!) Thanks for the responses, guys. as per Marty's advice, i'm thinking of picking up a Tung-Sol 12AX7 to try out in V1 (or wherever the faulty tube turns out to be). i know ideally it's better to buy a whole set, but i'm on a limited budget unfortunately. luckily i don't have any engagements on the horizon just now.

09-02-2009, 06:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
javier pintos Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Mexico Posts: 323	Re: DSL 100 woes (surprise, surprise..!) i´m close to doing a retube of my dsl100, on the power tubes i´m thinking on going for the jjs kt77 (i have a mix of JJe34L and other tube at the time, and have no idea when they were installed) or anyother thing that helps me tame a bit the mid/hight which i feel are a bit harsh/shrill, i can feel it inside my ears tickling if you know what i mean on the preamp so far i´m sort of happy with the jjs, however our band is getting into some music that requires me to use more effects since we do not have a keybord player i try to emulate with my guitar and i need a cleaner (cleaner that crunch set up for classic rock) clean channel and i end up with the ultra to do the ACDC, Metallica, Led Zep, and other types of classic rock using the volume on the guitar i could always use just the clean and crunch but it takes a button and a volume and gain adjustment with the lead channel i would just use the mode button, been trying the governor emulation from my boss ME on the clean channel to avoid this, but i just have not found the right setting to have the crunch at my feet and it seems just an awfull waste of tube tone to do that Long story short what would you recomend for the preamp?, i do rythm work only (with my LP Studio and a strat with dimarzio rails for backup) and keyboard emulations from rush and other more modern bands, we are all cover band by the way sorry to hijack the thread

09-02-2009, 06:38 PM	#7 (permalink)
jcmjmp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,341	Re: DSL 100 woes (surprise, surprise..!) Why go with KT's? IMO, A good set of =C= EL-34, properly biased of course, is all you need. Is it the high end that's bothering you? Turn down the treble a little. You could also try a larger V1 screen grid resistor. Those JJs are pretty dark sounding to start with though. You should be fine with those. If you want cleaner, use the green channel and back off the gain, that's all. Maybe the speakers are at fault for that high end. Could also be the guitar. Who knows for sure? There's so many variables, its hard for anyone to really recommend anything that'll work 100%

09-03-2009, 09:09 PM	#8 (permalink)
javier pintos Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Mexico Posts: 323	Re: DSL 100 woes (surprise, surprise..!) i have the treble at 1 oclock and presence set at noon, mids about 1 oclock, and bass at noon, with the tone shift engaged/diengaged everything sounds fine at low volumes, when i go above 4 but mostly above 5/6 on the volume is when things start getting shrill/harsh (on both channels), my gain is about noon and roll off the guitar volume I have noticed that after a while i get a sound change/volume drop at higher volumes and i have no idea how old the tubes are so they need a change (maybe that is the cause of the harshness?), but i would like to have something smooth enough no to become harsh as higher volumes, but still sound good at volumes 1 - 4 with only preamp dist (for room practice ), and sound the best at gig volume By the way my 4x12 is a V30 + G12H anniversary mix (slant) in a x pattern config i just got a i just got an ibanez OD9 so i´ll try the classic channel at clean and use the OD just to get an idea of analog dist vs my Multieffect, and then take it form there

09-04-2009, 06:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
MaidenStrat02 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The Rue Morgue Posts: 147	Re: DSL 100 woes (surprise, surprise..!) I definitely wouldn't have the presence that high. Have you tried the C12 mod on the controller board? that removes some of the harshness. I tend to stay on the green channel, the red's to fizzy for some stuff. __________________ Gibson '07 SG 2 Customized Fender Strats Modded DSL50 MM choke,PT&OT Carvin 2x12 V30's Pitchblack-LPB-1-Budda Wah-TS808. Loop= 108EQ-Modded Phase 90-Carbon Copy-George L cables-Voodoo Pedal Power 2 Plus-Pedaltrain board Contact for Facebook request

09-05-2009, 12:11 AM	#10 (permalink)
javier pintos Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Mexico Posts: 323	Re: DSL 100 woes (surprise, surprise..!) tkx maiden, i´ll try the presencde first, tubes must have a change and then think bout mods since i´m in mexico and i don´t really know anyone that could do the mods, and have it done in the US will be troublesome, of course i can do it myself with an iron i´m supposed to be an electronic engineer so is not really a troble, what the value of the c12 should be changed to?

09-05-2009, 06:14 AM	#11 (permalink)
BrotherJ Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 267	Re: DSL 100 woes (surprise, surprise..!) Give the amp a shot with the treble and presence backed down first, but if it's still too bright, change the C12 cap for something like a 180pf cap. You can completely remove the cap but if you still want some highs in there with lower gain settings then you might want to just test different values until you have something you like. For the fizzy gain, try a 390pf cap accross R1 resistor on the main circuit board. I've done this on every DSL/TSL i've owned and it definitely helps tame that piercing treble! Theres more you can do, pm me if you want to go even further with the treble taming! __________________ TSL100 - MM OT & Choke and some circuit mods - 1960AV Stiletto Deuce II - Traditional quad

09-05-2009, 01:54 PM	#13 (permalink)
axl2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Mahone Bay, NS, Canada Posts: 135	Re: DSL 100 woes (surprise, surprise..!) I'm always nervous to screw around with this stuff in fair of fucking something up really good lol. __________________ Marshall DSL 100 Head Marshall AVT 20- Combo Epiphone Les Paul-Seymour Duncan Pups Fender Showmaster- Seymour Duncan Pups Takamine Electric Acoustic Epiphone Acoustic Boss GE7 Ibanez DL10 Delay Ibanez TS-808 Keeley DS-1 Ultra

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode