DLS 100 with Mercury Magentics Transformer - Page 2

MartyStrat54 · 07-03-2009, 03:49 PM

One of the best, informative threads I've seen on the forum in a long time. I was thinking about doing a choke mod on a couple of my amps, but now I don't think I will. I think I will leave them stock.

Marty

PaoloJM · 07-03-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

One of the best, informative threads I've seen on the forum in a long time. I was thinking about doing a choke mod on a couple of my amps, but now I don't think I will. I think I will leave them stock.

Marty

The choke mod is very dependant on what you want out of an amp.

If you want an aggressive attack, play with lots of gain but want to keep a tight focused tone and want to keep the hiss down, then a choke is the thing for you. A suprising amount of modern, high gain amps do not have one.

Here's a clip of a 5150 that I installed a choke in. It works perfectly for this amp for a metal style of playing.

You Tube

If blues and classic rock is your thang, then I think a choke might make your amp too abrupt and stiff feeling. You'll loose a bit of the dynamic feel of the amp. It'll make your cleans come out more stiff sounding. You wont notice much noise reduction if you play fairly clean or with moderate gain either.

This is all taken in the context of an amp that currently uses uses a resistor choke. Many amps already with chokes exibite sag for various other reasons, especially if valve rectifiers are used. An amp that has been been fitted with a choke can be further modded to bring back some sag, or better yet switch between the two.

As with all mods, you need to be clear on eactly what you want to achieve and then figure out how to achieve it rather than just doing a mods for the sake of it or 'cos it seem like the thing to do.

MartyStrat54 · 07-03-2009, 07:34 PM

Thanks for taking the time to post all of this. Yes, I am more of a blues and classic rock player. I'm not into speed, death or thrash metal. My major playing days are over with. I played all through the 80's and well into the 90's. As I've gotten older, I have actually acquired a taste for upbeat Chicago based blues. Not all of those guys play Fenders. I was surprised to see quite a few players using high gain amps.

I will give the choke mod (inductor) some consideration, but I think my playing is suited for having a little SAG.

Marty

jcmjmp · 07-03-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Thanks for taking the time to post all of this. Yes, I am more of a blues and classic rock player. I'm not into speed, death or thrash metal. My major playing days are over with. I played all through the 80's and well into the 90's. As I've gotten older, I have actually acquired a taste for upbeat Chicago based blues. Not all of those guys play Fenders. I was surprised to see quite a few players using high gain amps.

I will give the choke mod (inductor) some consideration, but I think my playing is suited for having a little SAG.

Marty

Marty,

I play 80's metal like Ozzy, Metallica, Maiden, priest, etc, but I'm also a huge fan of Clapton, SRV, The Red Hot Chili Peppers, Hendrix, Zeppelin and the choke mod really makes the DSL shine. You still get a nice softish initial tube attack but the amp is definitely livelier but will still exhibit some sag or compression at higher volumes. You'll get a little more definition at higher volumes.

The choke should be standard on the DSL.

jcmjmp · 07-03-2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Here's a clip of a 5150 that I installed a choke in.

On that 5150, aside from replacing the resistor with a choke, did you do anything else to the amp to avoid the POP when going from standby to on?

MartyStrat54 · 07-03-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmjmp

Marty,

I play 80's metal like Ozzy, Metallica, Maiden, priest, etc, but I'm also a huge fan of Clapton, SRV, The Red Hot Chili Peppers, Hendrix, Zeppelin and the choke mod really makes the DSL shine. You still get a nice softish initial tube attack but the amp is definitely livelier but will still exhibit some sag or compression at higher volumes. You'll get a little more definition at higher volumes.

The choke should be standard on the DSL.

Thanks for the input jcmjmp. I guess I shouldn't have made it seem like I don't like metal. Of course I do, I grew up with it. Based on what you said and also what you know, I will reconsider the mod. I guess it wouldn't hurt to have a go at it with one or two of my amps.

Also, what are your opinions about the necessity of a choke versus amp wattage? I heard that putting a choke on say a 40 watt DSL is a waste of time. Puffer Fish had it done on this amp and he said it made a difference. I've read online that an inductor choke mod only benefits higher powered amps. What do you say about this? From an electronics standpoint, I think an inductor in the power supply is way better than a resistor, but I think the wattage factor might have some merit to it.

Marty

solarburnDSL50 · 07-03-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmjmp

Marty,

I play 80's metal like Ozzy, Metallica, Maiden, priest, etc, but I'm also a huge fan of Clapton, SRV, The Red Hot Chili Peppers, Hendrix, Zeppelin and the choke mod really makes the DSL shine. You still get a nice softish initial tube attack but the amp is definitely livelier but will still exhibit some sag or compression at higher volumes. You'll get a little more definition at higher volumes.

The choke should be standard on the DSL.

I find it a little harder to get into musical feedback that was as controllable as before the choke. I'm fighting that part of the amp. It still sounds great but I'm missing some of that other mojo mine had go'n and I believe that to be the choke tightening things up. The clean channel seems a bit stiffer...

I think our perception of the degree of sag is different or your amp is just good to go. I definitely had more sag before the choke at all volumes. I also had more sag after modding than when it was stock. My amp still rips. I'm just making a minor complaint. I still love the touch and feel I get.

We like alot of the same music too.

jcmjmp · 07-03-2009, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Thanks for the input jcmjmp. I guess I shouldn't have made it seem like I don't like metal. Of course I do, I grew up with it. Based on what you said and also what you know, I will reconsider the mod. I guess it wouldn't hurt to have a go at it with one or two of my amps.

Also, what are your opinions about the necessity of a choke versus amp wattage? I heard that putting a choke on say a 40 watt DSL is a waste of time. Puffer Fish had it done on this amp and he said it made a difference. I've read online that an inductor choke mod only benefits higher powered amps. What do you say about this? From an electronics standpoint, I think an inductor in the power supply is way better than a resistor, but I think the wattage factor might have some merit to it.

Marty

I think it all depends on how much you push the amp and what your expectations are. I have a Vox AC30, which comes stock with a choke. It has a 22 watt and 30 watt mode and its sags, mostly due to the tube rectifier and lower power supply filtering.

The 40 watter is el84 based, isn't it? Those tubes already have a lot of compression going on at 40 watts. I would def. do it on my amp. Again, it seems like you gain in terms of noise and the overall feeling is tighter when you push the amp more. Sag can be good, but too much of it can sound like mud. The only reason Marshall dropped the chokes on the JCM2000 line was cost cutting, not tone.

A choke, or lack of it is not the main element in Voltage sag. There are several other elements in the design of an amp's power supply that comes into play.

These links are a very interesting read by a highly respected amp tech/builder.
Chokes
Sag

PaoloJM · 07-04-2009, 08:34 AM

I agree with jmpjcm

There are many other factors at play with sag, as he mentions; filtering, power transformer impedance, rectification impedance (almost 0 for solid state and around 100/200ohms for valve) etc.

A higher power amp naturally will draw more current from the power supply. This equates to increased voltage drop across all of the power supplies impedances, hense more voltage sag.

When people say that a choke is not necessary in a lower powered amp, they are saying that the current draw is not so large and therefore the sag is not as noticable. Noise is less of an issue in lower powered amps too. This is all tue and valid.

As jmpjcm says the choke is only one of the imepdances that exist in the power supply, but it definitley noticable, especially on higher powered amps like the DSL, 900s and 800s.

The rectifier type has the most significance as the the power valve plates draw the most current.

The great thing about guitar amp tone is that it is entirely subjective; one mans tight and aggressive is anothers harsh and overbearing, ones mans beautiful compression and sag is anothers saggy booby tone!!
That's what makes all of this fun!!

b00mstick11 · 07-16-2009, 12:08 PM

What part in the pic are we looking at are where can it be ordered? I've got the same issues with my DSL 100. Also, can anyone tell me how to install a "Triode/Pentode" switch to drop between 100/50 watts. Thanks....

jamesbreese · 08-03-2009, 11:19 PM

Mercury Magnetics -- The transformer company

the far right big silver metal thingy. That's the Output Transformer.

It was well worth it in my case. I dont know an answer to the other question.

siav · 08-06-2009, 04:21 AM

Hi,

That's an interesting topic!
Does someone can post links to where to buy a transformer please?
I'm thinking of replacing - depending on the price - my 2555SL one's.

CEBergheim · 08-06-2009, 02:56 PM

How difficult is it to replace the OT? I have a Marshall 1959 SLP and very little modding experience. I have no trouble adjusting bias, soldering guitar pickups and stuff like that though.

MaidenStrat02 · 08-07-2009, 04:22 PM

Super easy. On a Mercury Transformer the tabs are labeled and you just hook up the wires accordingly. The Merc has spade connectors on it so the existing wires just slide on. After testing you could solder them but I wouldn't, it would make removing it difficult.

CEBergheim · 08-08-2009, 05:47 AM

Thanks. Now I'm just worried about the high voltage inside my amp. I don't know how to reduce the voltage (other than not using the amp for a while).

Is it safe to do this OT mod without draining the voltage? And, how many weeks without operation does it take before the voltage is at a safe level?

jcmjmp · 08-08-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CEBergheim

Thanks. Now I'm just worried about the high voltage inside my amp. I don't know how to reduce the voltage (other than not using the amp for a while).

Is it safe to do this OT mod without draining the voltage? And, how many weeks without operation does it take before the voltage is at a safe level?

It is never safe to service a tube amplifier without draining the caps. Its a simple procedure.
Capacitors can hold a charge for a LONG time. weeks, sometimes months.

07-03-2009, 03:49 PM	#31 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: DLS 100 with Mercury Magentics Transformer One of the best, informative threads I've seen on the forum in a long time. I was thinking about doing a choke mod on a couple of my amps, but now I don't think I will. I think I will leave them stock. Marty __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

07-03-2009, 07:34 PM	#33 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: DLS 100 with Mercury Magentics Transformer Thanks for taking the time to post all of this. Yes, I am more of a blues and classic rock player. I'm not into speed, death or thrash metal. My major playing days are over with. I played all through the 80's and well into the 90's. As I've gotten older, I have actually acquired a taste for upbeat Chicago based blues. Not all of those guys play Fenders. I was surprised to see quite a few players using high gain amps. I will give the choke mod (inductor) some consideration, but I think my playing is suited for having a little SAG. Marty __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

07-04-2009, 08:34 AM	#39 (permalink)
PaoloJM Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Cork, Ireland Posts: 534	Re: DLS 100 with Mercury Magentics Transformer I agree with jmpjcm There are many other factors at play with sag, as he mentions; filtering, power transformer impedance, rectification impedance (almost 0 for solid state and around 100/200ohms for valve) etc. A higher power amp naturally will draw more current from the power supply. This equates to increased voltage drop across all of the power supplies impedances, hense more voltage sag. When people say that a choke is not necessary in a lower powered amp, they are saying that the current draw is not so large and therefore the sag is not as noticable. Noise is less of an issue in lower powered amps too. This is all tue and valid. As jmpjcm says the choke is only one of the imepdances that exist in the power supply, but it definitley noticable, especially on higher powered amps like the DSL, 900s and 800s. The rectifier type has the most significance as the the power valve plates draw the most current. The great thing about guitar amp tone is that it is entirely subjective; one mans tight and aggressive is anothers harsh and overbearing, ones mans beautiful compression and sag is anothers saggy booby tone!! That's what makes all of this fun!! __________________ www.youtube.com/paolojm

07-16-2009, 12:08 PM	#40 (permalink)
b00mstick11 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Arlington, TN Posts: 7	Re: DLS 100 with Mercury Magentics Transformer What part in the pic are we looking at are where can it be ordered? I've got the same issues with my DSL 100. Also, can anyone tell me how to install a "Triode/Pentode" switch to drop between 100/50 watts. Thanks....

08-03-2009, 11:19 PM	#41 (permalink)
jamesbreese Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Tulsa, Ok Posts: 12	Re: DLS 100 with Mercury Magentics Transformer Mercury Magnetics -- The transformer company the far right big silver metal thingy. That's the Output Transformer. It was well worth it in my case. I dont know an answer to the other question. __________________ J. Breese Tulsa, OK JCM2000 DSL 100 1960A 30 Watt Celestions 1960B 75 Watt Celestions

08-06-2009, 04:21 AM	#42 (permalink)
siav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 86	Re: DLS 100 with Mercury Magentics Transformer Hi, That's an interesting topic! Does someone can post links to where to buy a transformer please? I'm thinking of replacing - depending on the price - my 2555SL one's. __________________ Kramer 600ST Gibson Les Paul STD 2005 Martin D16 Custom Marshall 6101 30th Anniversary Marshall 2555SL JCM Slash Rocktron VooduVale

08-06-2009, 02:56 PM	#43 (permalink)
CEBergheim Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 34	Re: DLS 100 with Mercury Magentics Transformer How difficult is it to replace the OT? I have a Marshall 1959 SLP and very little modding experience. I have no trouble adjusting bias, soldering guitar pickups and stuff like that though.

08-07-2009, 04:22 PM	#44 (permalink)
MaidenStrat02 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The Rue Morgue Posts: 147	Re: DLS 100 with Mercury Magentics Transformer Super easy. On a Mercury Transformer the tabs are labeled and you just hook up the wires accordingly. The Merc has spade connectors on it so the existing wires just slide on. After testing you could solder them but I wouldn't, it would make removing it difficult. __________________ Gibson '07 SG 2 Customized Fender Strats Modded DSL50 MM choke,PT&OT Carvin 2x12 V30's Pitchblack-LPB-1-Budda Wah-TS808. Loop= 108EQ-Modded Phase 90-Carbon Copy-George L cables-Voodoo Pedal Power 2 Plus-Pedaltrain board Contact for Facebook request

08-08-2009, 05:47 AM	#45 (permalink)
CEBergheim Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 34	Re: DLS 100 with Mercury Magentics Transformer Thanks. Now I'm just worried about the high voltage inside my amp. I don't know how to reduce the voltage (other than not using the amp for a while). Is it safe to do this OT mod without draining the voltage? And, how many weeks without operation does it take before the voltage is at a safe level?

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