JkGriffin

Evening...

I am currently looking for a new Amp... but also new effects to make a amp a little more versatile.
To get a proper setup I would like to get an overview over who offers true bypass pedals...

I know that you don't necessarily want only true bypass and why... but I want to get a little overview over what's on the market. I think many producers do not inform very well on what bypass their products have.

I have found Rothwell effects that are true bypass...
And also that many of the Dunlop MXR pedals are true bypass, although not very well informed on Dunlop's site either.

I'm looking for the most common types of effect pedals such as EQ, Chorus, OD, Boost, Wah...

Thank you for any suggestions...

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jcmjmp

All that true bypass stuff is marketing hype, for the most part. The Dunlop wah is one of the pedals that benefits from being modded.

A properly buffered pedal is better than a mechanical pedal, especially if you have more than one pedal. The connections add up and tone gets lost real quick with true bypass. Not only that, most true, hardwired bypassed pedals can have an annoying click sound when engaged.

Just get the pedal that sounds good to you. That's all need to care about, along with good interconnects.

rockinr0ll

I always wanted to make my ME-50 true bypass.

MajorNut1967

If you already have some favorite pedals and you can use a soldering Iron, you can make them true by-pass. The FUlltone True switch is great.

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American Viking

When you spit knowledge like that I love you.

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Transformers inside amplifiers were not originally designed to be in there, and the tube was not created for the guitar amp.
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MajorNut1967

Do you realize that you are constantly contradicting yourself? And can you explain what you mean by "bufferd"? And would you explain your interpretation of "true bypass"?

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Frankie

Well, there are a shit ton of true bypass effects. What effects do you plan on using or replacing and then maybe we can zero you in? I personally don't mind a FET buffer deal as long as it's not terrible like in the new Boss pedals. I've got an old Boss BF-2 Flanger I use and it doesn't really spank my tone when off, but I had a new Boss TU-2 tuner and a Boss SD-1... high end loss ahoy!

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jcmjmp

Contradicting myself how? Some pedals benefit from a True Bypass mod and some are best when left with a buffered input.

The example I gave is the Dunlop Wah. when Bypassed, it sucks out a lot of tone from the guitar signal, due to a low input impedance circuit. It is one of those pedals that can really benefit from modding it to true bypass, meaning a switched connection from the input jack to the output jack with the input jack completely disconnected from the input circuit of the wah when the pedal is in Bypass mode.

The problem with true bypass pedals is that they add a lot of capacitance and by the time you get to the amp's input, you will have lost a lot of high end and added noise.

A properly buffered pedal should work just fine. I'm not saying that one is better than the other. I'm saying that both have their place, as long as they are implemented properly and are tailored to your particular setup.

The case against true bypass

The Ins and Outs of Bypassing Effects

Frankie

Exactly! A high quality buffer in your signal is actually good when you have a moderate amount of effects or a long ass wire. A lot of Fuzz pedals actually get shitty if there's not a solid buffered signal in front of them, that's why the Keeley and other boutique ones include an internal buffer before the transistors.

Oh, and +8000 on the Dunlop wah. Thing is completely unusable stock as it bites a TON of tone out when off. One switch, a couple wires, and a circuit board trace removed later and it's invaluable. A modded Dunlop wah works better than all those high dollar wahs IMO.

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MajorNut1967

Read what you post, can't you see your contradiction's; other forum members do?

How or why does a true bypass switch develop capacitance?
You still have not explained what buffering is in an Audio circuit?
And your posting URL's is just you plagiarizing what someone else has said or thought and not coming up with it on your own.

And another thing, I have a bachelors in Electronic engineering with emphasis in Audio Technology from Cal-Poly and have worked in or around the music & audio industry for 25 years; so don't you try to tell me anything! And your misguiding and misinformation to the other members of the forum, see the other people and myself that have some experience know what is fact. But some of the other members are new to this and therefore they might take what you say as Gold. Therefore you have to be responsible for what you say, cause you may be responsible for blowing up someone's equipment or worse possibly hurting them! Have you thought of that? Granted this forum is for the exchange of information & opinion, but still we have to be careful & responsible! And remember BS always catches up with you.

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Riffraff

Holy shit. I was going to offer something but I better just......

jcmjmp

Listen, I don't want to argue on a public forum. I'll respond to this post, but that's it.

1) I have a electronics degree as well, not that it makes a difference for being able to hear the difference between true bypass, hardwire bypass, fet switching or other switching schemes in a guitar pedal.

2) A True bypass switch can develop capacitance (this is from your post, not mine) because (you asked how does it develop capacitance) as the contacts age and in some cases get dirty or oxidize, an insulating film can develop, causing capacitance. We all know (people that have basic electronics training) that a capacitor is composed of two plates separated by an insulator.

3) For the Dunlop wah bypass, you are correct, I am simply repeating stuff that is readily available on the web. I didn't realize that it was wrong to do that - The thing is, I have personally verified this info by experimenting myself and I trust those sources of info.
I researched the Dunlop tone suck because I noticed a loss of high end with the wah in my pedal board. It was really annoying and I knew that something could be done - This was back in 1997. There is a website that explains how to do the mod. Its very simple. I didn't come up with it but I can attest to the fact that it does make a big difference.
For the Ibanez TS-9, Japanese Boss SD-1 and other similiar pedals that feature FET input buffering, I can't say that I can hear a noticeable difference in tone.

4) You want me to explain buffering in an audio circuit? This isn't an electronics forum. You seem to be very aggressive toward me. What's going on? One of the links I provided explains this in such a way that anyone with a curious mind could understand.

5) What is wrong with my post? I doubt that saying true bypass can be good or bad will blow up equipment in someone's basement!

6) I'm not plagiarizing anything. I'm proving reference links from sources I trust. How is that plagiarizing?

7) I guess that I'm contradicting myself because I'm saying that both true bypass and buffered (FET Switching like in the Ibanez TS-9) can be good and have their place?

8) You state "Don't try to tell me anything". Hmmm. I never directed my post at you. I don't even know you! I'm not trying to tell you anything... until now. Wow! Are you paranoid? Having a bad day?

jcmjmp

Please, do post what you have to say. Everyone should be allowed to share an opinion, experience or experiments.

Riffraff

+1 on the Crybaby mod. My old Thomas Organ wah was a huge tone sucker and now it's under control.

You can make a bypass box like this and stick ME-50 in the loop. http://www.beavisaudio.com/techpages...ooperNoLED.gif

I made one once and it does the job nicely when you have a problem pedal that you need to get out of the chain when you aren't using it. You can get carried away with it and it isn't always required so use your ears first to decide if you need it. It's easy to get caught up in gadget collecting.

Frankie

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rockinr0ll

Thanks for the idea, I never thought someone would mention a way for this to actually work! I only use the ME-50 in front of the amp for chorus and delay so it would be nice to turn it off when not using it. Is there a way to make a loop for the ME-50 at the front of the amp instead of the FX Loop, because that is currently being preoccupied??

Frankie

I'd personally loop that ME-50 to Guitar Center on a trade in for a reasonable chorus and delay if that's all you're doing with it.

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rockinr0ll

hehe, very true.

I may consider doing that in the future. I guess the only way to bypass would be to use a line-selector. But again Guitar Center would be an option as well.

Frankie

A regular old 4 jack loop box would work too, but it's more trouble than it's worth to use that thing.

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jcmjmp

And takes up more space on stage.

rockinr0ll

Very true.

Frankie

The guy has an ME-50 on stage. He's obviously not concerned about space, unless he's talking about flying through tonal space in which case he has a surfboard to do so on like the silver surfer.

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Riffraff

All good suggestions.

You can use the loop box I posted in front or in the effects loop of your amp. It's a good low cost DYI project that you will find a use for even after you trade that ME-50. When I said stick the ME-50 in the loop I meant the loop box, not the loop in your amp. And if you replace the DPDT switch with a latching relay and add another jack you can leave the silver surfer next to your amp and control the switcher remotely with a momentary footswitch.

rockinr0ll

Alright man, I got it now.

JkGriffin

Thank you for all the replies folks...
I didn't mean to start a little war in here though

Anyways...

I have been thinking about making two pedal boards. One for OD/Wah/Boost in front of the amplifier and one Chorus/EQ/Flanger/Whatelse in the effects loop. Will of course try and fail, but a general plan is nice to have... right?
I'm also aware of that it's not only good things about true bypass.. that you should consider having at least one buffered in an effectschain.
Not sure if I've heard of this FET buffer... Have not heard of the expression FET at least...

To give you the story for what I'm after...
I'm currently on the lookout for a quite new setup... including new amp.
I have found three alternatives so far...
Marshall Haze40 (described here Questions regarding the Marshall Haze 40)
Marshall Vintage Modern 2266 combo (will try it tomorrow)
Marshall JCM2000 50W combo

The clean sound I'm not too worried about. In the clean sound I want versatility, jazz blues...smooth... nothing fancy. A touch of chorus and echo to be available maybe, but no flanger or this more "special" effects if you catch my drift.
Some examples of "clean" sound types I fancy:

For the gain I would like to achieve something a classic Marshall gain as I've found with the Haze and VM from Marshalls own demo's... Also, I would like to attempt something like:

No one need to point out that type of pickups and everything have an impact on the sound. I do not wish to replicate these exact sounds... they are just to show what I'm after... Just the most common types of effects that is.

So any links to any true bypass pedals you may think of is appreciated.
Then I can bookmark them and have some research on them and decide for myself...
Getting an external true bypass switch may also be a good idea though...
Rothwell actually have this which is not too expensive. Even though I know how to handle an soldering iron, the equipment I have is crap. Mostly easiest to buy new if not too expensive.

jcmjmp

A FET is a type of transistor with a high input impedance (you can view this as resistance). BOSS and Ibanez have used FET input buffers.

The idea of two pedal boards is nice. I have a single board with 2 sections, which is essentially the same thing.

OD: Zvex Box of rock, Guv'nor and Crowther Hotcake
Wah: Dunlop (modded for TB of course)
Boost: BBE Boosta Grande or BOSS LS-2 (I assume that the boost would be used for more compression/gain vs a volume boost).

Chorus: I'm happy with a Boss CE-2 or CH-1
Flanger: Ibanez/Maxon FL-9
EQ: Don't use 'em
Delay: Ibanez AD-99 (for short delays).

Riffraff

Digitech's Hardwire series are true bypass and supposedly pretty good from what I've been hearing. They are very rugged and marketed for pro use. I know a guy that swears by them. He said he got an RV7 for the Lexicon reverbs and couldn't be happier.

MaidenStrat02

Might be the same thing but here's a simple box you can make for an F\X loop switch.

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JohnH

I go with the idea that one buffered pedal at the beginning of the chain, maybe a tuner pedal, is good, followed by mostly true bypass pedals (one or two extra buffers in the chain dont seem to make much difference though).

The thing is, the guitar signal is a delicate thing (quite high impedance), easily affected by the capacitance of the cords (which act a bit like the tone cap on the guitar), messing with the treble frequencies. Once its gone through a buffer however (an electronic circuit that lowers the impedance without adding gain), it is much more robust, not affected by cords and switches downstream. Afeter a buffer, you can have cords almost as long as yo like, but before the buffer, I like no more than a 10' cord or else it starts to sound dull.

But each buffer will add a bit of noise and maybe slight change in tone or other qualities, so too many may degrade the sound. But have you seen those Boss demo stands in guitar shops where they chain 20-30 pedals, all buffered, together? They dont seem to sound too bad!

John

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Frankie

I get over! I use an X2 wireless, so I have about 2 feet of cord before my first buffer. After that, it's pretty much smooth sailing on my pedal board. Right now I run:

X2 Reciever (BU) -> Planet Waves Tuner (BP) -> MXR Dyna Comp (BP) -> Boss BF-2 (BU) -> MXR Carbon Copy (BP) -> Keeley TS-808 (BU) -> Keeley Java Boost (BP) -> Amp

BP being bypass (either hardware or true bypass), and BU being buffered. Sure, I lose a little treble in that hot mess when compared to plugged straight in, but nothing serious.

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