Why Is There A Difference Between Silver Jubilee And Sj Reissue?

Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by Medronio, Jul 27, 2018.

  1. Medronio

    Medronio New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    8
    As far as i know (youtube) soundwise there is a quite noticable difference between the original and the reissue Silver Jubilee.
    I am asking myself if there is a difference in the schematics or what`s the reason for this.
    If the schematics are 100% the same, i guess it is a result of the different transformers.
    Anybody investigated this topic and want to give me a clue?

    Regards
    Sascha
     
  2. marshallmellowed

    marshallmellowed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    3,053
    My personal opinion, it's primarily due to the components used and a different power supply design. I've had both (2555x and 2555 SL) at the same time, and they did sound and react differently. The 2555x was a bit brighter and stiffer to play through, the 2555 SL "rounder", and with bit of sag (power supply). Both good amps, but I preferred the SL.
     
    Deep Purple fan and dptone5 like this.
  3. Medronio

    Medronio New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    8
    Yes, exactly what i heard. Do you know if the schematics differ? Mentioning the different power amp design there should be a difference ...
     
  4. Australian

    Australian Green Beret VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    17,277
    Likes Received:
    9,382
    But Marshall know that its the Silver tolex that will sell it.
    Not everyone will hear and feel the difference.
     
  5. BowerR64

    BowerR64 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Messages:
    4,626
    Likes Received:
    2,544
    But will the reissue warm up after about 10 years?

    How will the 2 compare when the caps need replaced in the SL?
     
    JacksonCharvelAddict likes this.
  6. RickyLee

    RickyLee Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    9,528
    Likes Received:
    3,024
    Location:
    Riverside CA U.S.A.
    I have not seen inside a re-issue myself. But I do know that there is a few improvements. One huge one is the re-issue has DC elevated heaters. Might even be running 12VDC on that first valve. This is something I might just implement on my 2555 Jubilee Clone.
     
    JacksonCharvelAddict likes this.
  7. anitoli

    anitoli Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    6,646
    Likes Received:
    7,355
    Location:
    Lewiston, Maine U.S.A.
    The Russians had something to do with it ( that's what CNN said......)
     
  8. Buzzard

    Buzzard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2016
    Messages:
    806
    Likes Received:
    859
    Yes but we all know the Danes are the root of all the worlds problems.
     
  9. CyrusTheFabulous

    CyrusTheFabulous Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    39
    Yeah, I think it was part of Meuller's 36th indictment, or was it the 5th guilty plea, can't remember right now...
     
    Trelwheen, mikebinthesky and jstich like this.
  10. marshallmellowed

    marshallmellowed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    3,053
    Yes, the schematics for the two are different.
     
  11. plexilespaul

    plexilespaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,418
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    they are a whole different amp...

    2555x vs 2555 on the outside
    upload_2018-7-28_19-12-39.jpeg

    [​IMG]


    2555x vs 2555 on the inside
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    why should they sound the same?

    the schematics and the cosmetics are similar...do the math...
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  12. Medronio

    Medronio New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    8
    Hmm, so the schematics are the same except the power circuit?
    Well i was asking myself if the reissue could be modified to vintage specs. But i guess it will be better to save some money and buy the real deal (as it always is)
     
    plexilespaul and CraigP like this.
  13. RickyLee

    RickyLee Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    9,528
    Likes Received:
    3,024
    Location:
    Riverside CA U.S.A.
    Can you send me a copy of the re-issue schematic, please?
     
  14. RickyLee

    RickyLee Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    9,528
    Likes Received:
    3,024
    Location:
    Riverside CA U.S.A.
    I am thinking the re-issue should have the advantage of having less hum and noise at least. I am really wanting to get a hold of a re-issue for my own testing up against my '87 Silver 2555, '89 Black 2550 and my 2011 Ceriatone kit 2555 Clone.

    I had thought initially, and from my reading up on it many years ago, that part of the difference between vintage Jubes and anything built with modern parts would be those red LED's used in the Lead channel clipping circuit. I had read that the 80's era red LED's had a slightly lower voltage drop than modern LED's. So when I built my Clone, I installed both types on a switch. I can verify that there is slight difference between the sound, just a slight bit more output with the modern red LED's. But it is slight. It could be translated into a slight bit more edge and grit on the newer LED's.

    I would think that coupling caps and then a slight bit of the output transformer could contribute. But I really would like to get inside a new one, or be able to see a schematic on the new one to know if there are any other changes besides the heaters circuit.

    I do have a set of Dagnall trannies from the same period as my '87 2555 that I was considering dropping into my Clone to see if it put it any closer to the original. My Clone has huge trannies and the output xfmr has more bandwidth than the original and then a slightly higher 2.2K output xfmr primary impedance.
     
    Medronio likes this.
  15. santiall

    santiall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    803
    actually both amps sound the same if you set them to sound the same... that's actually where the trick comes in. Old components, and specially in the jubilee the potentiometers, have quite broad tolerance compared to new ones so an older pot located at 5 is perhaps the same as a modern one at 4 or at 6. That's quite tricky with the Jubilee EQ as it is very sensitive and small tweaks have a lot of effect in the tone.

    I'm saying that because there were some videos where people get both amps and put the controls on the same positions expecting the same sound but the result is different. Should those people have tried to adjust the controls to make them sound the same probably it'd be quite surprising how close both amps are.

    In any case, the modern reissue was based on an amp that Marshall had in their museum and trust me they are pretty much the same. The only changes are around the heater circuit for less noise and a reliable relay switching as the originals had a design flaw so sometimes a relay wasn't powered properly and it oscillated.
     
  16. wardal

    wardal Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    43
    Excellent! thank you for this Santiago!! Were you the designer of this amp? I thought you were? It's always great to read your posts and be gifted with your insights!
     
  17. Buzzard

    Buzzard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2016
    Messages:
    806
    Likes Received:
    859
    There you go.....again, from THE man himself.So can we put an end to this bullshit already!Amp is basically the same.boom ,,,done.
     
    El Gringo and walshb like this.
  18. santiall

    santiall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    803
    well, the original design is obviously not mine, I'm not sure if it's proper to claim I designed that amp but the reissue itself was done by myself with the help of Paul who was one of the technicians by then. He gave me a hand with some of the tasks, testing and other stuff.
     
  19. RickyLee

    RickyLee Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    9,528
    Likes Received:
    3,024
    Location:
    Riverside CA U.S.A.
    Thanks for chiming in Santiago.

    Interesting to hear your thoughts on the EQ adjusting, as I noticed this between my 2555 Clone and my '87 Silver 2555. I now have them much closer in sounding the same, and it does indeed take some adjusting of the EQ. When I set the Clone for the lower voltage drop LED's, it is even closer.

    I noticed my '87 doing the flickering/fluttering when on the Rhythm channel. A few times it pulled back to the Lead channel and then fluttered a few times on the relay coil.

    Can I ask you if the fix for the relay coil/switching circuit issue that was upgraded on the re-issues is something you could share here? That is something I really want to address on my old Silver.
     
  20. santiall

    santiall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    803
    it solved with an extra secondary in the mains transformer, instead of powering the control circuit from the heater circuit, it is powered by its own power supply.
    You may add an additional power supply in the chassis, for example a 12V adapter or the likes. They are very small and light and you can also power the preamp heaters with it.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice