Vintage Marshall Cab 1964? Year

Discussion in 'Cabinets & Speakers' started by Mark gordon, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. Mark gordon

    Mark gordon New Member

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    hi i have a old Marshall 4x12 metal badge cab I have had since early 1980s
    i guess its 1964 or earlier i used it for bands early 80s but had to cut handle holes
    because the band used the cellar to the town hall with the angel on top Robbie w. could see from his bedroom window "Angel" it was painted black too the paint was removed a while back because its covering is sky blue its front cloth is black can still be seen around the metal badge I've read there's only 10 known of so maybe 11 now i think its very unusual being blue and black cloth if anyone knows of it before 1980s please let me know it has a killer sound metal corner caps ,I know its rare because ive never seen a other one the same ,i would love find out where
    it was in the years before 1980 obviously pretty well used by then .
    marshall jmp 50w 1968 on top .

    yDSCF0049.JPG
     

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    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  2. BygoneTones

    BygoneTones Well-Known Member

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    Can you show internal shots?

    Looks like it could be an early Marshal 1964-ish yes, but it is really a project cab in that condition, and is not going to be super valuable in my opinion. Apart from the badge, all the original parts have been stripped off. The sides have been chopped up for side handes - not good. Speakers look like goodmans to me - not the original celestion alnicos. Great that it still exists at all of course, worth selling to someone who knows what they are doing with restoring them.
     
  3. Mark gordon

    Mark gordon New Member

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    goodmans audiom 61
    DSCF0057.JPG
    3x celestion pre rola

    Thanks for the input im quite sure the cab
    has value 54 year old , very early original 1964
    marshall 4x12 still with the first orignal marshall (Butler’s) metal badge which
    is very valuable ,it only has one early goodmans audiom 61
    in and the rest are all early celestion marshall used goodmans before celestion
    in 1964 would it have had goodmans, pre rola or alnico .
    oringinal sky blue covering and i have all original crome corner caps i think when
    fitted make it look very early fender which they were taken
    from ,ultra rare maybe only 10-11 left, a unique piece of early
    marshall history im sure theres a lot of collectors who
    would like one but havent got one or seen one ,im not looking to tart it up
    or sell , maybe new front black covering i have never seen one with
    speakers in working complete ,search on pintrest you wont
    find one i would be interested to know if the marshall
    museum have one and if anyone else has one please put pics up
    has ive never seen one except the "highnumbers" railway hotel 1964(the who) and pic Free
    early 60s pic both were black white front cloth so im sure
    there carnt be many sky blue with black front cloth about maybe
    colour a one off? i love the cab its rarity and had it 39 years
    not been changed since then .
     
  4. BygoneTones

    BygoneTones Well-Known Member

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    I give up, someone else help him out.
     
    JerryD, steveb63 and GIBSON67 like this.
  5. neikeel

    neikeel Well-Known Member

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    Welcome Mark Gordon:).
    From your posts you know a little......and don't know an awful lot more (remember the Rumsfeld quote!).
    You are lecturing to the guy above with some of the deepest knowledge of this era Marshall cabs, so carry on sharing the rest of your knowledge (eg how the first Celestion ceramics aka Greenback prerolas did not come in until at least 1965). Shame the Bygone Tones website is not up and running at the moment - you could read and learn some more:coffee:.
     
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  6. neikeel

    neikeel Well-Known Member

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    Looks like he ran away?
    Shame is it might have been quite interesting to see pics.
    Wonder if he has looked on the Bygonetones website now?
     
    steveb63 likes this.
  7. steveb63

    steveb63 Well-Known Member

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    A quick message from the uneducated, me, lol .

    Thank you for your input and knowledge , its very much valued, your free sharing of info is invaluable to a person like myself.

    Really appreciate your time, and opinions. Not all members are like the o.p.

    I guess I'm saying, don't let this attitude discourage you, lots of people need someone with your education.

    Peace
    Steve
     
  8. BygoneTones

    BygoneTones Well-Known Member

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    I was in a bad mood that day sorry. May have been a bit harsh. I would still like to see internal photos if 'mark gordon' is still around. Of the whole cab, rather than a close up of the labels. Not many of those cabs around, and each one is a piece of the jigsaw.

    I thought pleximaster, soundboy, tomsvintage might have chimed in to be honest.

    re value I sold a slightly later one (likely a block logo) in similar condition a few years ago at auction on ebay. It only made around £250 gbp empty. Maybe the market has picked up a bit since then, but at the time, very few people seemed interested. Perhaps too far gone, or people just didn't recognise it as a Marshall, who knows.

    You're right the coffin logo itself has some value, mine didn't have one.
     
    steveb63 likes this.
  9. Mark gordon

    Mark gordon New Member

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    i dont have a pic of the inside at the moment last time i had the back off which isnt very often with the amount of screws i only took pics of the speakers it just looks like any other 4x12 inside rectangle brace and small amount of thin foam,this 4x12 cab with metal coffin badge is a extremly rare cab ive owned 39 year it was 16 year old when i got it ,i have never seen another cab or recent picture of another 1964 4x12 ,i have looked and seen a few bare cabs but if you compare the badge plate this one is only big enough to take the metal badge others ive seen are larger with holes for script badges maybe 1966 onwards .i would love to see recent pics of any more 1964 cabs
    two of the speakers were Pre Greenback 1964 (Green back before they had Green backs ) gold/red label very rare 1964 as there was two oringinal fitted could the cab have been fitted with these and not alnico ?, one gold/red speaker was replaced 1990s when miked up in a venue didnt work on that speaker i didnt throw it but not sure i still have it ,the other was pre rola all were thames ditton,maybe Jims insparation for this cab came from fender 4x10 with metal corners very similar ,how many metal badges were made Jim Marshall said 100 some say 500 ,this cab was probaly made in the shop across the road or lockup nearby definately pre factory
    DSCF0817.JPG
     
  10. soundboy57

    soundboy57 Well-Known Member

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    Here is one that I restored, that came with all original handle hardware, two piece metal input jack, logo and speakers. Never
    cut for handles or drilled on. Had the original holes and T nuts for the top handles.
    The speakers date to August, 1964, if I remember correctly. I have a complete collection of photos
    during the restoration on photobucket.
    It does seem that Marshall, and others, have dated these cabs (and heads) a year or so earlier than they were originally produced.
    One former employee from back then, has said as much.
    The first offset heads, and cabs, were more likely 1963, not 1962, and the second generation, like mine, were 1964, not 1963.
    Going by the speaker dates, this would be a late '64 cabinet.
    I have been offered quite a lot, considering, even though restored, but I would venture to say it is worth
    half (or less) than an all original one untouched in nice condition, whatever that is these days.

    I did take great care to use original type rexine covering, and used repro white pintripe from the guy who did Marshall's 50th anniversary pinstripe cabinets, as well as the newer Park stuff.
    Good luck finding an original one for sale, though.

    I have come to the conclusion, after talking with people and searching online, that there are about 10 or less known, including Australia, Germany, UK, etc. Just my research over the last years...although there is no way to know for certain.
    Tomsvintage has, I think, four of them (!!) in original condition.
    I am certainly no expert on them, by any means. But I am pretty confident the cab
    is as it came originally, minus the foam on the sides internally.

    Bygone wasn't harsh at all, IMHO :)

    [​IMG]

    The inside was covered in one inch foam, which was in tatters, and I removed, other than the back panel, which I left intact.
    I had no desire to put foam back on the sides, although it original had it...it sounds perfect as is, with just the back foam..
    You can clearly see the remnants of the hide glue on the mahogany, on the top and one side.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  11. neikeel

    neikeel Well-Known Member

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    The ceramic T1134s now make more sense, AFAIK they were first introduced at the end of '64, so it is possible that it is really late 64 or early 65 and those could be the original speakers.
    I don't think that black fret cloth would be original the white Vynair stuff was more typical.
    When were round braces used?
    If you can show pictures of the way the vinyl is cut and stuck inside that will reveal whether it is a rare factory cover or a recover (presume you have confirm that it was not painted).
    The corners were not usually a feature on early Marshalls and as the ones on there look different types it supports that suggestion.
     
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  12. Mark gordon

    Mark gordon New Member

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    Thank you very much for the pictures I can see very similar things in the pics which must
    mean they were made close to the same time I do think my cab was a unusual one maybe or shop
    trial because of the unusual covering which is light blue I do think its original covering because shows
    original folding and gluing the front black cloth I think was original too quite neat done did Jim marshal
    cover early ones ? lots or glue inside like your pics and thin foam ,I did paint it black in early 80s my pictures do make it look a bit aged (55year) these pics are about 10 year ago when I was removing paint
    it will be more tidy when I do it properly comes off quite easy and vinyl is very good no tears scratches
    and I will replace the black front cloth maybe you can recommend where get original cloth from ?
    I do think it probably had t1134s in which I understand were only made 64/65 maybe the cab was a trial or special order for someone as it was very early in production ,
    maybe the metal corners were a trial too the fender cabs look very similar of the day, I always thought
    they look original on this cab, doesn't have any sign of holes on top or signs of top handles like soundboy57s cab which I have seen on fender and Marshall from that Era most Marshall cabs were black and white front .
    It was very nice to see your restoration and pictures your cab looks great and very rare I think its important to keep these cabs complete and looked after because they are the first link to Marshall stacks
    I will do some more work on this one soon and provide more pics
    cheers mark ...
    PICT0149.JPG
     
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  13. soundboy57

    soundboy57 Well-Known Member

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    They didn't use side handles until mid 1967, and used top strap handles before that.
    So, perhaps somebody put a metal logo on a homemade cabinet, at this point.
    Would like to see the inside construction.
    The logo mount is different than mine, but the grain of the baffle looks like mahogany, and the T nuts are correct.
    Never seen a blue cab from any era of the 60s with that color, or a cab from that era without top handles.
    Just observations...
     
  14. Mark gordon

    Mark gordon New Member

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    Hi
    the cab does look same inside to yours same colour it has got a center brace and showing small corner braces aswell back has correct input socket and screws and position Marshall factory confirmed its all original from 64/5 side holes were not there when I brought it as I said sadly was me but could be replaced if I wanted go as far as a restoration but I probably won't need too ,I have done Marshall amps before have quite a few ,the picture of Pete Townsends cab on a stand was a light colour covering but is in B/w photo 1964 most Marshall cabs were black but not all its definitely All Marshall construction I will do some
    New pictures in the next few weeks.
    The Amp on top is a 1968 plexi 50w with a lay down transformer I've had since early 80s but mainly used
    The cab with a Marshall 100 artiste which wasn't Jim Marshalls favourite Amp but sounded amazing using
    A early dod 250 overdrive in front of it I some times
    Miked off the goodmans or the gold/red celestions both
    Sounded awesome rock tone I couldn't really match it
    With later cabs probably due to early celestions luckily the speakers were 30w each giving
    Me 120w and a old SG?
     
  15. soundboy57

    soundboy57 Well-Known Member

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    Mine doesn't have a center brace, or corner braces. All the ones I have seen don't have any corner braces.
    There is a single horizontal 2x2 wood brace on the back panel, with foam above and below. I have seen
    that on Tomsvintage cabs, as well. He has four originals, circa 1964.
    They added a round center post at some point.
    Still wondering how the cab was moved about, without any top handles, before the side handles were installed?? Seems odd.
    Looking forward to seeing some inside pics. Love these old cabs :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019

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