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Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by Gene Ballzz, Apr 19, 2018.
seldom to I wish somebody to be wrong but damnitt man........
I hope the Origin 50 sounds that good!!!!
My findings seem to be the exact opposite. I tried the Origin 20 and DSL20HR side by side in store today. The Origin sounds much more open to me. It made the DSL sound compressed and fizzy. The Origin needs to have the boost engaged to sound it's best. It seems to fatten it up. It can sound a little thin with low gain and boost not engaged. I had the master around 3 o'clock and gain at 12 with the boost engaged. It had plenty of gain in there. Definitely more gain than the green channel of the DSL. I took my pedalboard and used my TubeScreamer with it. To my ears, guitar plugged straight in with no pedals, gain and volume up high, it was a monster. I loved it. Needless to say, I'm now £459 lighter. Of course, to each their own and we all hear different things. I used to gig my old DSL50 on the classic gain channel with the gain maxed out and a TubeScreamer in front. The Origin just sounds better to my ears. I must say though, I hate the sound of the ultra gain channel of the DSL. The Origin is perfect for me. I play ACDC to GnR as well as everything in between. Easy to get these sounds from it. Another thing I must mention, I've spent an hour with it at loud volume in a music store. I won't get to play it in the band till Thursday. I played a les Paul with BB pro's. Oh, it looks great too
That the same thing I️ have experienced with my 20w origin head and 2x12 cab sounds great on its own od pedal with push it to the max of what I️ want no solid-state sound here all tube .
I'm assuming the Origin will be a low gain machine and good pedal platform. At least I'm hoping so.
that's what I'm expecting too.
I'm not sure I'd call it low gain. I guess it's all a matter of perspective. I was surprised how much gain it had. Although I tried it with my TubeScreamer, I felt that it didn't need it. I felt that it got into GnR territory pretty well without pedals. I only tried a reverb pedal in the loop. Sounded great to my ears.
That's what I'm looking for, too. I have a Wampler PDD and a Catalinbread RAH just itching to get it on with the O20h.
Thick, old school, tube break up style tone...oh my, thats what I want. I can hit a pedal for the "high" gain stuff!
Yeh my tutor used to say my DSL40 had low gain. Bizzar! I have sold it now but it had tonnes of gain.
I had them both side by side for a few in my studio and I heard the exact opposite. The DSL had waaay more gain at lower settings. I had the gain cranked w boost on and a MV at 2 o'clock with the Origin and the DSL the gain on noon and the Ch volume at about 10-11 o'clock. Keep in mind though my Origin had to go back for a speaker jack not working. I also got the impression that the original first Marshall video sounded very much like what I heard in person.
EDIT: I should add, also my DSL has Mullard power tubes in it currently and probably adds a bit more gain then the stock JJs.
did you find the el34 tube change a drastic improvement with the dsl 20 over the marshall jj's
I wouldn't say drastic but, different , yes. I have tied Mullard, Svetlana & JJ E34L. The JJ E34L are the most drastic tone wise with a bigger bottom and fuller lower mids and more punch. The Mullard have the smoothest tone and a bit more gain. The Svetlana are similar to the Mullard but more articulate in the upper mids with maybe a little less gain. The stock JJs were my least favorite. They were more bland than the rest.
IMHO, the biggest tonal difference with the DSL would be heard through different speakers. My current favorite cab is a Bogner 4x12 with 2 T75s and 2 Marshall G12 Vintage, sort of a Bogner Uber cab but with Marshal Vintage. The best stock Marshall cab would be the 1960BV. I have seen some guys use the MX cabs....I highly suggest to save your hard earned cash and get something better. Those cabs make the DSL sound very honky. The best 1x12 would be an Orange PPC 112.
Hey Gene B , how are you getting on with your Origin?
Bump for Gene and his demo/ review of the two combos.
I am thinking Gene has been so stoked and busy playing both those new amps, that he forgot this forum is in existence.
Sorry guys, I received both the DSL20CR and ORIGIN20C and then got a couple of "surprise" gigs for this weekend and need to "bone up" on like 75 songs. It should however be noted that neither of these amps instilled enough confidence for me to use either for these gigs, as opposed to my bone stock 5E3 Tweed Deluxe, through my 4x10, 1965B and a Weber MiniMass attenuator! Maybe I just haven't found the right combination of settings yet and I'll have a couple more weeks, before deciding to keep or return either or both.
First initial impressions:
DSL20CR) Vast improvement over the earlier, lower wattage units (DSL15 & DSL5), but still a disparity between Classic and Ultra channels. On the previous versions, the disparity seemed mostly in the low end, but this new version exhibits it's disparity in the upper mids and highs. The Ultra channel does not respond very well to changes in picking dynamics (kind of a "compressed" character), yet the Classic channel, while quite dynamic, lacks enough gain for it to be the end all/be all, go to channel for overall use. Not really friendly for achieving a "great core sound" that can be quickly and easily returned to! One thing I've not yet tried is using a boost in the loop (along with my heavier, "tap tempo" delays and gentle chorus) and simply ignoring the Ultra channel altogether? The loop works quite well and the reverb sounds nice. There are already some really nice "gut shots" posted here: http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/dsl20-hr-gut-shots.100804/
so I won't bother. It should be noted though, that the main circuit board appears to be the same as the DSL15C that has simply had a few component swaps to accommodate the EL34 power tubes and re-voice the preamp, just a tad. From my own experiences/opinions, they should have left the Classic channel alone and simply modded the Ultra, instead of tweaking them both, oh well! Also, what appears to be the same old "Pentode/Triode" power reduction scheme reacts about the same as on the previous models, along with it's associated loss of dynamics and punch in the lower wattage setting, but not a very big drop in perceived volume! I believe this to be the biggest pitfall of this amp, as it would likely require an attenuator to get it into the right "volume range" for my use. Using the "Triode Mode" negates most of the magic imparted by the EL34s, yet doesn't really knock the volume down very much. They should have incorporated the same "Power Stem Technology" that they used in the Origin series and this amp would likely be much closer to being a real winner!
ORIGIN20C) First, the included 10 inch speaker sounds much better than expected, but still sounds bigger with the 4X10 1965B and have not yet tried a greenback 4x12! The "Boost" function works fairly well and when engaged, provides a fair amount of usable gain. Nice cleans are achievable, as are good overdriven tones, but I seem to be having a problem in that "in between" transition between clean and dirty sounds. Kind of a "harshness" that appears to also relate to utilizing the "brighter" portion of the "Tilt" function. I've not had time yet to roll some tubes to determine if this may correct the issue. It must be said that when I've mentioned this "transition" anomaly on other forums, I've been pounced on with comments like "maybe this amp just isn't for you" etc! Maybe so! The "Power Stem Technology" method of volume reduction does seem to work very well, with very little change in character at the lower levels and the drop from 20 watts to 3 watts is certainly more realistically useable, compared to the drop to 10 watts of the DSL20. My opinion though is that they should have made the drops to 5 watts and 1 watt, instead of 3 watts and 0.5 watt! The loop works very nicely. Unfortunately, that "transitional" anomaly makes it hard for me, as that's the zone where I tend to live most of the time, just between clean and dirty! For those who prefer to stomp on a pedal or foot switch to go between clean and overdrive, it's likely pretty OK, but for those who transition by picking technique/dynamics, that "in between" area sounds like @$$!
And FWIW, the Tweed Deluxe is absolutely stellar, in almost every way except for no loop, no power reduction and requiring an occasional "OOMPH" at the input. I hate "boost" pedals, as well as the sound of heavy delay/echo in front of an amp. On the other hand, this amp seems to not mind an attenuator as much as most other amps. The cleans sit right in a sweet spot between Fender and Marshall cleans and the overdrive is quite "Marshall-ish" but with a great character all it's own! I attribute a fair amount of it's "nice dirt" to the imbalance of the "cathodyne" phase inverter.
Tube Rollin' Soon!
I did not read a lot of favorable in your review, maybe in a few weeks you can do a follow up and see if that changes. I'm planning on doing the same and order DSL20 and ORI20 heads to compare. Thanks for your point of view bro.
I was hoping for a "holy grail" amp, but it appears that both of these amps may actually be a "holy fail" for me! I do however intend to give them every chance to redeem themselves and will keep you all posted!
I thought the brett klingman demo was the best imo.The origin 20 c to me reminded me of brad paisley's tone which I believe is a dr z 1-12 very plexish tone . From what I hear alot of newer country guy's go for that el34 based cathode biased tone. Also matchless or budda can't remember which. I thought about the origin 20w head,so I can use different speakers.