Silver | 6100 | VM

Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by DZagorac, Feb 19, 2020.

  1. DZagorac

    DZagorac New Member

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    Hi guys,

    I have opportunity to buy 6100LM and VM, both 100w heads. I have Silver Jubilee 100w head so I do not wanna amp close to Silver sound.
    I play mostly Hard Rock and Rock, what will you recommend me to buy? Both amps great condition, great price, I can not buy both because of Helios Eclipse is too expensive and that amp robbed me, haha.
    I can not play before buy because both amp are far away from me.

    Cheers
     
  2. Michael Roe

    Michael Roe Well-Known Member

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    If you are wanting something with a more vintage vibe then go for the VM. If you want an amp that covers a lot of ground then go for the 6100.
    Of course, the right answer is just get both :)
    It would probably be harder to find a 6100 than a VM.
    I have never personally played a VM but I did own a 6100LE way back in the late 90's and it was a beast of an amp.
     
  3. DZagorac

    DZagorac New Member

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    I have Shiva for Vintage type tones like JMP.
    Price is almost the same for 6100 and VM, so..
    Maybe I will gonna with 6100, but I will wait for someone else to reply.
    On YT both sounds fenomenal. Minus is just that I can not try them both side to side
     
    Michael Roe likes this.
  4. JacksonCharvelAddict

    JacksonCharvelAddict Well-Known Member

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    The VM kinda covers the same ground that the Jubilee does and the Jubilee does it better. I'd get the 6100 if I had to choose. As others have said around here we just get both.. This is the way.
     
  5. DZagorac

    DZagorac New Member

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    Then 6100 will be my next amp.

    I will eventually buy VM, but now I have enough amps so.. VM is on the list, before is 1959 with Fortin modd.
    If 6100 and VM were for regular price I would not consider it, but if price is right I will pull the trigger.

    Thanks for reply,
    6100LM with blue cover will come home haha
     
  6. DZagorac

    DZagorac New Member

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    6100 is sold 3h ago so..
    It seems that new baby will be in somebody's else's house.

    Just one question.
    What do you think in future will be good call for my Marshall Collection?
    Silver Jubilee is just fantastic, I need something that sounds as good as that but different voice.

    I do not like TSL, DSL and JVM series, also JCM900 is big no, except SL-X which is great but no in the budget.
     
  7. Kelia

    Kelia Well-Known Member

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    Your talking about a Vintage Modern right ?
    If so , for me ,they are two completely different amps .
     
  8. JacksonCharvelAddict

    JacksonCharvelAddict Well-Known Member

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    Check out the JCM800 2205/2210. They have a lot of gain but are voiced different than the Jube.
     
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  9. JacksonCharvelAddict

    JacksonCharvelAddict Well-Known Member

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    Definitely different amps. I just think that the VM is closer to a jubilee than it is to a 6100.
     
    Kelia likes this.
  10. Phony iommi

    Phony iommi Well-Known Member

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    There are usually a few good 6100lm to be found on reverb for around a grand or slightly less. I own one and highly recommended them for versatility and tone quality. You don’t have to wait for the blue tolex either the gold faced ones kick butt as well and are far more common.
     
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  11. MonstersOfTheMidway

    MonstersOfTheMidway Well-Known Member

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    Because you said the 6100 was sold, are you still in the market for the Vintage Modern amp or are you looking at other Marshall amps to add to your Marshall collection?

    I've played the VM head and combo. Both head and combo are fantastic for a variety of genres because they can be dialed in for a wide range of tones. VM series is stripped down amp that gives a tip of the hat to vintage style amps while producing a wide range of tones similar to what you find in multi-channel/channel switching amps. But if you think you already got vintage Marshall tones down, you might want to skip VM and look for tones that are a little more specific, like...

    If you are looking at other amps to add to your Marshall collection, I suggest looking on the used market for:
    1) JCM800 model #2203ZW (limited edition Zakk Wylde signature Marshall head)
    2) AFD100 (limited edition Slash signature Marshall head)
    3) YJM100 (limited edition Yngwie J. Malmsteen signatue Marshall head)
    4) Super100JH (limited edition Jimi Hendrix signature Marshall head)

    Any of the Marshall amps listed above is almost guaranteed to sound very different your Silver Jubilee head yet still have that great Marshall sound at the core. Additionally, any one of those heads would be a huge boost to your Marshall collection. I ain't gonna lie: it's probably cost you much more to acquire any one of those amps compared to the 6100, VM, or your Silver Jubilee.

    Good luck with your search.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
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  12. Kinkless Tetrode

    Kinkless Tetrode Well-Known Member

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    There are usually three or four 6100s on the guitar center used listings at any given time. I don't think they will disappear from the used market in the near future. They are going on to 30 years old now and are a bit more of a challenge from the serviceability stand point than most. The 6100 is a sophisticated amp circuit for a tube amp. And there are a lot of tubes to keep up with. The price range of the 6100s on GC used are about the same as the used examples of the VMs.

    The VM is readily available on the used market right now.

    The VM in high dynamic range can be dialed in to sound Jubilee like, but there is also the low dynamic range. The VM is not a channel switching amp, so you play it like you would a plexi by using picking dynamics and the guitar's volume knob to change tones. The Jubilee can be played that way too, up to a point, but the VM really excels at that. The VM is a KT66 powered Marshall too, which sets it apart from the more common EL34 powered Marshalls*. The VM is usually played through G12M greenbacks and the Jubilee loves Vintage 30s, so another difference. I think it, like the 6100, is enough different from any other common Marshall while still being Marshall to the core to include it in a Marshall collection.

    *The 6100 after about 1993 is usually 6L6 powered and probably takes KT66s with just a rebias.

    Another set of options now is the fact that used Studio Vintage and Studio Classic amps are not a lot more expensive than the used markets for VMs and 6100s.
     
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  13. Kelia

    Kelia Well-Known Member

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    Hi KT ,..........don't wan't to hijack the thread but I have a question !
    On the Marshall Rhoadhouse forum,.....they say to bias the VM at 48ma ,......I had three Vintage Moderns
    over the years and all three had different plate voltages ,...from 446,452,and 482 volts,......so 48ma is not accurate for those plate voltage readings ?
     
  14. Kinkless Tetrode

    Kinkless Tetrode Well-Known Member

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    That's the problem of quoting a hard number. The ma value doesn't really mean anything by itself. When using the calculation method it's really a percentage of the max plate dissipation that your trying to establish with a particular set of tubes and in that particular amp.

    Furthermore, the percentage is just a ball park figure. It is often 70% as a safe figure that is not too hot. On the other end of the range, often determined to be 60%, as not too cold and still probably getting rid of cross over distortion. You might like the sound and performance of that particular set of tubes in that particular amp at different bias setting than someone else.

    As an example of the danger of just setting the bias to an ma value, going by the plate voltages you listed, 48ma is +/- around 70% if it is running 6L6GC or 7581 tubes. A lot of people assume that KT66s are equivalent to 7581s or 6L6 family tubes in general, but KT66s have a max plate dissipation of 25 watts. 6L6GC/7581 have a plate dissipation of 30 watts.
     
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  15. Kelia

    Kelia Well-Known Member

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    Ok thanks KT !...........I wasn't sure if a KT66 was 25 or 27 watts ,.......I usualy bias at 65% but
    will double check tomorrow and maybe bias with my ears.
     
  16. Kinkless Tetrode

    Kinkless Tetrode Well-Known Member

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    Another problem with ma values by themselves is, is it for one tube, two tubes, four tubes? 48ma in a 2466 would be 100% PD and way too hot if was for one KT66. But for two tubes it would only be 50% and probably too cold, but very safe and causing the tubes to likely last a long time.
     
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  17. Kelia

    Kelia Well-Known Member

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    Hmm,.........think I'm doing something wrong the way I calculate it cause with two tubes,
    I'm at 40-41 per tubes because there's one bias trim per tube on mine .

    On the HDR mode ,....how does the VM get's his gain ,.is it only with V2 or there's some gizmo involved ?
    Because the gain on mine sounds like plastic !
     
  18. Kinkless Tetrode

    Kinkless Tetrode Well-Known Member

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    Be aware that in the 2266 the plate voltage is much less than the 2466 and requires a different set of numbers. The plate voltage of the 2466 is greater than 500. That's why it must use KT66s and all four. No pulling two tubes.

    HDR in the VM brings in an extra preamp tube. But the extra preamp tube does not cascade into itself as in a high gain amp such as a Soldano. One triode of the extra tube adds one extra gain stage to the Detail signal path and the other triode of the extra tube adds one extra gain stage to the Body signal path before they are blended. But its all tube.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
  19. Kelia

    Kelia Well-Known Member

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    Thank you KT for your help ,..........really appreciate !
    The amp sounds really harsh so I must be doing something wrong so will go back on the drawing
    board tomorrow to make sure I bias it right.
     
  20. 67mike

    67mike Well-Known Member

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    The VM is amazing if you want vintage JTM type amp.
     

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