schematics for a 60's Marshall 200 watt "pig"

Discussion in 'Let's Talk Vintage' started by rbehm, Mar 27, 2012.

  1. rbehm

    rbehm New Member

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    Hey there Marshall lovers,

    I've built a 1967 Marshall 100 watt head already by loaning a real 1967 Marshall jtm100 head for a week or so and copying the schematics by sight and comparing the amps to get the sound of the real 67' Marshall , and i want to build another Marshall head for the sound i want for future events ;)

    The sound I'm chasing, is the 200 watt Marshall "pig", not the major P.A with the 6 knobs and four imput jacks, but the one with 3 active control knobs, 2 imput Marshall with the smaller looking faceplate. I looked up the video of a 67' Marshall "pig" on Youtube, type in "200 watt Marshall" and you should find it, that's the sound i want, that's the AMP i want. Unfortunetly, finding one would be like finding a needle in a hay stack, SO, Does anyone have schematics for this beast amp?

    Randal Marshall Behm would be my facebook to get a hold of me, or simply reply on here, which would be a great help.

    Schematics would be GREAT, if there is anyone that OWNS this amp, would you be able to take detailed photos of this amp and i can just build it by looking at it and seeing the color patterns on the resistors and Maybe some writen details about certain wiring or resistor types ETC would be a helping hand, but for this amp, pictures or schematics would be great. You would be helping a Marshall freak like me more than you know it! :)

    Thank you for your time to read this and if you have the golden ticket for this, THANK YOU!

    (And thank you father Marshall of loudness for creating the best amps in the world) :cheers:

    Cheers,

    Randy Jr.
     
  2. Rockbert

    Rockbert Active Member

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    This may not be much help but I'm pretty sure I saw a thread on this somewhere once where somebody had the schematic, like maybe the metroamp forum. You could try searching there.
     
  3. rbehm

    rbehm New Member

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    I emailed metropoulos and asked if they had any schematics, i will try that, usually there are just discussions on these amps, but nothing more, just thought id ask the marshall forum..well..since it has to do with marshall.
     
  4. metromutt

    metromutt Active Member

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  5. rbehm

    rbehm New Member

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    It doesn't help, That is the Marshall MAJOR, there is a difference between the MAJOR and the PIG, The pig is this:

    Redirect Notice

    I've already got a 67 Marshall,

    I want to build the 200 watt 1966-67 Marshall 200 watt PIG with active tone controls.
     
  6. ampbuilder

    ampbuilder New Member

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    Hi everyone. I own one of the first 'Pigs' made. Its still in excellent condition but needs a new output transformer. I have got the circuit drawing somewhere which I will draw up on CAD. The circuit is quite different to the 'Majors'. A brief description ;-
    two ECC83, one ECC82, and four KT88. The power circuit is quite traditional (NOT an ultralinear type). HT volts is 750VDC ( ouch ). Screen grids are 550vDC from four grid resistors. HT is generated from center tapped transformer through three diodes in series from each tap. Smoothing caps are four 33uf 450V wired as two parallel pairs in series. Screen grid is from a seperate supply with two smoothing caps in series. The transformers are made using grain oriented continuously wound strip C cores. These cores I believe was made by a company called Seddon and Bramall in Sheffield UK. Who wound the transformers Ime not sure. The output transformer primary was 550 0 550 turns of 25swg (british wire guage). These were split into smallergroups and interspaced to achieve a better balance. Output winding was 150 turns for 15 ohm and 75 turns for 8 ohms. Guage Ime not sure I guess 20SWG. On full output into 15 ohms I once measured 235V AC . Hope this is of interest. I will post full circuit when done as it appears ime the only one whos got it. It had one problem the output NFB was fed into the ECC82 phse splitter and there was some crossover distortion. I notice later versions take the feedback to an earlier stage to have more effect.
     
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  7. shooto

    shooto Well-Known Member

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    Schematic would be AWESOME!!!!! :thumb:
     
  8. XSLO

    XSLO New Member

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    Anyone ever verify that three-knobber schematic that one guy posted? I've been searching for that schematic for many years. I asked the guy that owns the Guitar Hangar if I could come up and take pictures of the inside of Ronno's Pig and he said OK. I had already told him I was ex-Soldano and ex-Ampeg and I wouldn't put a scratch on it. I live all the way across the country from him, though. What's interesting to me is that through some people I knew at Marshall, I found out that Marshall themselves have no idea about the schematic of the Pig. The people working there now never heard of it.
     
  9. vintagekiki

    vintagekiki New Member

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    The difference between the Marshall Major 200 a.k.a. The Pig and the classic Marshall Major amp is in the concept of tone control. Marshall Major 200 a.k.a. The Pig uses advanced version Paraphase Tone Control described in Radiotron Designers Handbook, 4th Ed.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. D-Max

    D-Max Member

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    Thanks!
     
  11. danfrank

    danfrank Active Member

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    Hi,
    Where did the above schematic come from? It looks reasonable to me except for the 22K resistor from the grid to ground of The Bass triode section (V2a?). 22K seems way too low of a value in this position unless the level to this stage needs to be knocked down a lot. Maybe 220K?
    I know Marshall has one of these "Pig" amps in the "museum" located inside their factory in England. There is a video on YouTube of somebody taking a Marshall factory tour and there is a view of the "Pig" amp in that video. I wonder if anyone has emailed Marshall and asked them to draw up a schematic from that amp?
    Daniel
     
  12. vintagekiki

    vintagekiki New Member

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    Biasing resistor v2a makes attenuator 470k and 22k, enables the equalization Bass and Treble per level gain.

    Bass section (V2a) works as a voltage gain, unlike Treble section (V1b) who works as a cathode follower with approximately unity gain.

    Schematics for Marshall Major 200 a.k.a. The Pig is drawn on the basis of various photos from the net type Look "Under the Hood".

    For details please see the post
    http://music-electronics-forum.com/t8345/#post373977

    Sorry for the possible grammatical irregularities, translation is the machine https://translate.google.com

    vk
     
  13. danfrank

    danfrank Active Member

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    OK,
    So here's my attempt at cloning the Marshall 200 "Pig" as per Vintagekiki's schematic. I still need to match up a set of power tubes to install in the amp, I need to label all the knobs and jacks, and I need to build a cabinet to house amp in.
    Power output tubes will be either GLKT88s or Chinese EL156s. Main B+ is 650 volts, Screen supply is 360 volts; should be enough for well over 200 watts.
    Many thanks to Vintagekiki for his work on the schematic he provided. I looked at all links he provided for circuit information and I think he did a great job tracing out the schematic onto paper.
    I should have it up and running within a week. If anybody on this board lives in the Los Angeles area, namely, the Hollywood - North Hollywood area of L.A., PM me if you want to give this amp a try to see how it sounds.

    Not as cool as an actual Marshall Pig but this has to have at least a little "cool" factor to it.
    Thanks for looking....

    PS. Does anyone have outside measurements of the "Pig" cabinet? I'm looking for length X width X height dimensions... Thanks.
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. Vostre Roy

    Vostre Roy Member

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    ^

    Can't wait to hear about the results, that thing looks well made. Clean work, lots of space, scary big transformers, don't know how it can go wrong! Great job man!
     
  15. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    Discharge is futile.
  16. shooto

    shooto Well-Known Member

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    yes!...please post clips!...looks bitchin'
     
  17. danfrank

    danfrank Active Member

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    Thanks for the comments.
    Yes, this is a copy of the original 200 watt Marshall amp with no ultralinear taps on the output transformer.
    The amp is very quiet with the knobs all turned up; very little hum. I did a good job with the grounds in this amp. The controls take some getting used to, they all interact with each other, when adjusting them. The one thing that I was concerned about was the treble and bass controls; I didn't think they would match up as the treble circuit is a cathode follower which has a gain of less than 1. The bass and treble controls do match up well in this amp.
    I have the Chinese EL156 tubes in for the outputs (think of an EL34 on steroids). A word of warning to people buying tubes direct from China... I bought 20 of these tubes and 8 of them are bad, right out of the box. Spend the extra money and buy tubes from a reputable dealer... That's what I get for being cheap...
    Here's a few more pics.
    Now to find someone that can play guitar, nearby...
     

    Attached Files:

  18. danfrank

    danfrank Active Member

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    I took my "PIG" clone to a friend's house today. He played guitar and bass through it. This thing makes a great bass amp! Very loud and very clean. I switched output tubes to re-issue Gold Lion KT88s. Very well made tubes.
    Guitar sounded good through it also... My friend put the "master volume" knob to the 1:00 position and played a chord (we were in his apartment so we couldn't go too crazy)... It was very LOUD; yet still clean with slight breakup. The loudness is nice in this amp; the kind of loudness that is not only heard but also felt in your gut. Comparable to an original SVT.
    Hopefully someone else will build one of these with the "Vintagekiki" schematic and give their opinion of the results.
    It is a rather impractical amp to build though, unless the user is doing it "old school"... No PA system used... Only the band, their instruments and amps and the audience.
    Daniel
     
  19. vintagekiki

    vintagekiki New Member

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    Schematics Marshall Major 200 a.k.a. The Pig is drawn on the basis of various photos from internet photos of type Look "Under the Hood"

    I was not able to see detailed photographs intact (clean) amplifier, because it were mainly amplifiers that have survived over the years a variety of intervention and customization.

    Based on my 30 years of engineering experience, I tried at all the photos to find a common point, and as a result of the schematics that is located in front of you.

    Some of the links used when creating schematics

    http://dawkmods.proboards.com/thread/988
    http://s67.photobucket.com/user/superchouf/library/MARSHALL%20PA200
    http://s67.photobucket.com/user/superchouf/library/PA?
    http://s67.photobucket.com/user/superchouf/slideshow/MARSHALL%20PA200/?albumview=slideshow
    http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=64211
    http://webschem.free.fr/Marshall-Major-PA-PIG.png
    http://webschem.free.fr/xmjwul2t.png
    http://www.amparchives.com/album/Marshall/200%20Watt%20Heads/1967%20Marshall%20200%20-%20The%20Pig/index.html
    http://www.electricalaudio.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&p=1814891
    http://www.guitariste.com/forums/amplification,major-quot-the-pig-quot-200w-1967,399858.html
    http://www.guitariste.com/forums/amplification,restauration-marshall-quot-the-pig-quot-major-200-1967,399739.html
    http://www.projetg5.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3429
    http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71216
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.237813823010427.1073741829.235151569943319&type=3
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.393694141916.179936.194362866916&type=3
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4640305&id=194362866916&fbid=393694291916
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHav_y8doTg

    [​IMG]
     
  20. danfrank

    danfrank Active Member

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    Hi vintagekiki,
    I think you got the schematic right. I built one (see above) according to your schematic and it works as it should. The component values are correct as per your schematic and the treble and bass boost/cut work as they should. My version has more capacitance in the power supply so it sounds very good with a bass guitar plugged in. Very clean and LOUD. It is a nice sounding amplifier. The one quirk to the 3 adjustments is that if one knob is adjusted the other 2 have to be tweaked a bit to get the sound "right".
    Pleximaster is working towards restoring an original "Pig" 200 watt Marshall. He has been having some stability issues with his. I can't wait till he gets it sorted out and (hopefully) gives it to Johan to test out and make a video of it... :)
    Thanks for making this schematic available vintagekiki.

    Daniel
     

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