Ppimv Or Attenuator

Discussion in 'Other Amps' started by tremojem, Jun 2, 2016.

  1. tremojem

    tremojem Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    16
    I have the Ceriatone 1968 Super Lead 100W head.

    I love this thing.

    My question is this.

    I have a choice of cranking both channels and then using the PPIMV or, cranking the PPIMV and both channels and then using an attenuator.

    What is the difference...in other words, what is happening to the circuit in both scenarios.

    A friend came over the other day, and we A/B'd the two choices as best we could, on the fly in real time, so that I could get a feel and sense of what the amp sounded like and felt like, but with other distractions and such, I hate to say that I was a little disappointed at the lack of definitive results.
     
  2. Garrett

    Garrett Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2015
    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    320
    On TGP they will tell you to get the Fryette Power Station. It's expensive, but has a lot of fans. Others say it colors the amps tone a bit.

    Attenuators suffer from "tone suck". I have a lower cost Weber MiniMass, it knocks a few dB's off but it does make the amp sound a bit thin. You can get decent tones with it but I don't care for the result.

    I prefer the PPIMV to tame my 50 watt. It's not a perfect solution either but it's what I prefer of the two options. I've been through lower wattage amps for lower volume play but they don't have the balls of the 50/100 watt amps.

    They both will result in lower volume for home use if that's what your after. But you'll never get the same sound as if the amp were cranked.

    Others will suggest less efficient speakers.

    There are tons and tons of threads about this topic. The answer in the end is your tonal preference or what your wallet can handle.
     
    Metroman likes this.
  3. tremojem

    tremojem Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    16
    Thanks
     
  4. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    13,639
    Likes Received:
    9,936
    So that tells you there's no difference - you get the same result
     
  5. SG~GUY

    SG~GUY Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    3,533
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    -depends on which attenuator you use, they have come a long way in the last couple of years, I had an ARACOM attenuator that was awesome, attenuator's tend to be amp selective, for a MARSHALL, or any amp built off the MARSHALL platform, it's by far the best.... you get what you pair for-
     
  6. langmurf

    langmurf Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    89
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, GA
    My two cents... You can use an attenuator with multiple amps. If you only need to attenuate the one amp, the LAR/MAR PPIMV will save you hundreds of dollars. I'd go PPIMV, personally.
     
  7. tremojem

    tremojem Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    16
    Well, I sat down for most of the night last night with my friends THD Hotplate 16 Ohm attenuator.

    I went back and forth from the PPIMV on my amp to the THD.

    There are some nuances that differentiate the two, for example:

    Tone suck on the THD.
    Muddy with the THD.
    Looser with the THD in the lows.
    A pinch more touch sensitive with the THD.

    I think I might be happier with the PPIMV for the money, meaning...sure I could go and spend $600 on a real good attenuator, but it just isn't worth it.

    That money would be MUCH better spent on another cab loaded with greenbacks.

    On a side note, with channel one at 3/4, channel two at 1/2, bridged with guitar into channel one/hi, I cranked the PPIMV to just about 1/2.

    It was loud but GLORIOUS.

    I then went ahead and cranked it to 3/4.

    It was much LOUDER, but not that much better...hmmm, there is a sweet spot. LOL

    Oh, by the way, the touch sensitivity was the best with the PPIMV at just about 1/2.

    I love this amp!
     
  8. Garrett

    Garrett Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2015
    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    320
    I find the same with the PPIMV. You have to have it at least half way, anything less and the tone is pretty poor, gets a bit fizzy with too much preamp gain. But as you said it's on the loud side, not crazy loud but not bedroom volume either. \

    That's when I got the attenuator, to try and use it and the PPIMV together to knock off a few more dB's. Didn't care for the result.

    I'm playing through a JTM45/50 clone. Freaking glorious sounding amp when you crank it but can crack the drywall in a small room.
     
  9. john l

    john l Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,060
    Likes Received:
    474
    Location:
    ORANGE COUNTY
    The marketing of most attenuators really has muddied the concept of how attenuators are supposed to be used. So many people that just play around the house will go out and buy 100 watters thinking they can just attenuate it's almost funny...
    The bottom line is that once you start hearing and feeling the artifacts that so many complain about you are officially over attenuating. These things were designed to be on stages and in studios where shit is still very loud and even then they were intended to be used sparingly.

    For the guys that are trying to get big amps to cooperate in impractical situations look into the re amping units. They were designed for uber low level playing.
     
    2203xman likes this.
  10. 2203xman

    2203xman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    2,955
    Likes Received:
    2,786
    Location:
    Hillbilly Heaven USA
    I think this is a great point.I too wanted to hear that plexi tone at home without getting arrested,or least being a d**k to my neighbors.I decided I would only go with a 1987,it's just a 50 watter,itt'le be fine..wrong again.To me plexi style amps have a different loud.The power amp drive seems more in your face than pre amp driven tone.After a round or two with the Hotplate,and back to the boosted front end,and even back to the THD,I have decided that a plexi just can't be smothered and sound like the awesome plexi in your head.Without spending anymore on a hobby that has become increasingly more of a bedroom hobby,I will be boosting the front end of the 1987 from now on.I'm getting better results,plus it's very practical and simple.For me the attenuator added a very unpleasant after note fizz,or phase sound.Once you got the amp loud enough to get rid of the unwanted side fx,the police were most likely already notified.John makes a great point.Re amp if you can,if not,a quality overdrive box will make a plexi sing pretty nicely at a moderate volume level..
     
  11. slagg

    slagg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2012
    Messages:
    637
    Likes Received:
    288
    Location:
    Cheezeland Wi
    ^^this all day^^
     
  12. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    14,913
    Likes Received:
    8,756
    Location:
    Start the reactor... Free Mars!
    The attenuator / fluxtone speaker is always better.
    To get a good tone from a Marshall, the output tubes need to be pushed hard, into overdrive.
    PPIMV will never sound as great because the output tubes are not being overdriven.
     
    Metroman and iron broadsword like this.
  13. SG~GUY

    SG~GUY Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    3,533
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    -this is way off topic,.. but kinda on topic,...

    -I have a electro harmonix pre-amp tube that's "broke",... in that it cuts the volume down to pretty much nothing,... BUT!!!,.. I can dime both volume & master volume,.. -(out put is like 1 or maybe 1.5)- the sound of the amp with the GOLD LION KT88's is f*ckin insane!!... but it scares the hell out of me to run it like that for too long,... so anyways,..
     
    Gunner64 likes this.
  14. jack daniels

    jack daniels Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6,697
    Likes Received:
    2,427
    Location:
    OKC, OK
    If one can afford (what is it $900 to a grand?) for one.
     
  15. Gunner64

    Gunner64 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    5,222
    Likes Received:
    6,189
    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    Which makes me think...why doesnt someone invent an "attenuator " tube llke your f ed up one.....thatd be awesome.
     
    SG~GUY likes this.
  16. jack daniels

    jack daniels Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6,697
    Likes Received:
    2,427
    Location:
    OKC, OK
    As has been said before, the true intent or purpose of an attenuator is to attenuate or knock down the signal level. If say you used an attenuator to knock down the volume to an acceptable level, use a PPIMV, jumper the inputs, and use a good transparent overdrive pedal like say a Hermida Audio Zendrive Overdrive pedal you'll dig it the most.

    AND if you want to take it a step further, then employ a Triode/Pentode circuit w/switch So, as AMS would say you can knock the volume down further from 100W to 40W and then use a combination of the above. Whatever works well for you is the best answer anyone can give.
     
  17. 64Vibroverb

    64Vibroverb Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    I have PPIMV's on 2 of my Plexi's (50w & 100w). Also have a Rivera RockCrusher for my non MV clones. Where the PPIMV shines is at a gig to fine tune the volume for that venue, No need to haul an extra piece of equipment. My 100w is the sh!ts with the vol on 8 and the MV at 50% give or take.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  18. jack daniels

    jack daniels Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6,697
    Likes Received:
    2,427
    Location:
    OKC, OK
    I was told there were anywhere from 4 to 5? MV circuits used by Marshall when the first Marshall MV amps came out of which only one or two worked well enough not to exhibit 'buzziness' which is why those particular MV circuits are more sought after. Of course these MV circuits are Pre-Phase Inverter Master Volume types as the Lar-Mar PPIMV didn't come until later. I've yet to see Ken Fischer's (Trainwreck Amplifiers) take on the Post Phase Inverter Master Volume circuit.
     
  19. iron broadsword

    iron broadsword Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,959
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    Since you mentioned you have experience with the THD, check this video out:



    IMHO, the weber blows it out of the water and they are still pretty inexpensive. Here's a real nice example of what happens to the tone as you turn it down with the weber.. To my ears it is phenomenal. Just ordered a mass 200, actually.

     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  20. Metroman

    Metroman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2014
    Messages:
    742
    Likes Received:
    423
    If budget ever allowed Id check into the Power Station.

    Its also a 2 x 6L6 x 1 x 12ax7 Power Amp, and is 1-50 watts. Effects loop. 0000+++ Tone Suck.

    If you get a really nice Pre Amp like an Effectrode Blackbird, you also have a whole new amp.

    I myself don't like PPIMVs, or most attenuators but really like the PS. Although admittedly expensive.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice