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Discussion in 'The Cellar' started by Karloff, Jul 25, 2013.
Comparing Cobain to Springsteen is like comparing Alvin to Theodor.
Black album and before he played what was needed and what made sense for the song. Which is what your job is as a lead player.
But nowa days his playing is a joke.
I'm guessing he's laughing all the way to the bank.
I would like to hear one of his leads that you are using to make this judgement tho. I'm not a big Metallica head & only have/had a couple albums so I really cant say one way or the other yet, I'm curious to hear something that he put on an actual album that is a joke.
Hey, jokes happen.
Steven Seagal ROTFL 8)
Think about how the young people who play guitar feel about this. I wish everyone else also played
This thread seems to be more about guitarists you don't like than about them being overated. There are some mentioned that are totally overated and others who are recognized by some as the best who ever played.
when i started this thread, i didnt word it correctly, what i should have said was "which guitarists, that you hear others rave about, don't do a thing for you?", instead of ever including the word "Overated". there are guitarists that i dont like their style of playing at all, but i recognize their talent and contribution to their genre. I should have worded it differently. one of my favorite quotes is from Dickey Betts. "I don't get into discussions about who's better than who. Cuz when it comes to playing guitar, no ones keepin score"
Trying to get a group of guitarists to agree on anything is kind of like herding cats LOL
It is one of those type of questions isn't it? I'm glad to hear that you even feel the way you do & are saying you shouldn't have used the word 'overrated' in it. That totally clarifies how you see this and aligns our feelings on the subject. It aint no competition & I like Dickey's quote, 'no one is keeping score'. I do think it takes a certain level of awareness & maybe even maturity to realize & come to terms with that.
Hell, we all got drive & want to be good or even the best sometimes, especially when it comes to playing something like the guitar. And while a little ego & attitude has often gone hand & hand with performers, it has always been the humble, grateful & gracious musician that has resonated with a true admiration in my life.
It really comes down to being able to; connect through musical expression, convey feeling / emotion, & conjuring mood that brings the meaning & appreciation out in each of us. So long as somebody derives meaning from someone's playing, I really have no business putting it down just because I might not enjoy it or enjoy it as much as some one else's playing. The whole "better than' idea has always struck me as a wrong way to look at music ever since I was young & started playing.
As Lennon sang, "Whatever gets ya through the night, it's alright, it's alright".
usually the "guitarist of the year" or #1 all time great in Rolling Stone is a dead giveaway that they're overrated.
Jack White & Kurt Cobain beat out Satch,EVH,McAlpine,& a slew of others for a few years...I mean C'MON MAN!!!!!
for me it's easy,..i was born in 1965,..influenced by the 70's stuff,...lived through the 80's,..(and it really did suck for the most part,..well ,.....except for the WOMEN!!!!,..loved them big haired, mini-skirt wearing 80's babes!)
there is a huge difference between a
"GUITARIST" ie technicaly proficient,..practices his scales as fast as he can everyday ,...so he can become a shredder,...so he can impress other shredder's like a good shredder should do!....
"MUSICIAN" it don't matter what instrument he plays,..but it's all about the end result,...the song!!!,...(I know,...crazy thought huh!)
example #1-"guitarist" yingvai (or insert any shredder in here)
nuff said,...nothing left to see here,..move along,...move along
Oh I'll also add keith Richards to this list. While he is a great songwriter, I think he gets more credit than is due. He also said Jimmy Page is Led Zeppelin, and that the other members didn't have much talent which makes no sense...
It's been self evident for so long that he's a dwarf among giants that I needed this reminder. When I hear kids talking about great guitarists, then throwing name in the middle, I just kind of......
I think his playing on the '80s Metallica albums was very good, although he forgot how to play after that. He hasn't done a single thing that interests me in over 20 years....
You could say Miley laughs all the way to the bank, but that doesn't earn my respect.
And listen to almost any wah cliche ridden solo after the Black album to just before Death Magnetic and you'll hear plenty of jokes. Talk about getting stuck in a rut creatively.
And to think Kirk took some lessons from Satriani regarding phrasing and lead harmonies, and he still has not evolved since then...
Hey I'm not defending the guy by any stretch. I really don't have or know any material after the Black album which I thought was both a good album and had appropriate guitar playing just as the Album before it. It is just hard to think someone can be filling stadiums and playing with the sheer frequency of the schedule they have had over the years & it left him un inspired to excell or something like that & now he's not meeting his potential or is over rated hasbeen or neverwas er whatever. I really wish you could have given some song names. Like I said, I don't really know their stuff and do not even know any album names after the Black Album. But I guess I'm not missing nothing right?
I guess I'll waste some time Googling just to satisfy my curiosity at this point because beyond that I could GAF ya know. I'll report back.
So CW, I decided to listen to the 1996 release 'Load' to get an idea about Kirk playing not meeting expectations and to possibly give me an idea why you find him overrated after the Black Album. Hopefully the Load album typifies his playing on other albums and isn't a one off fluke. Here's what I thought of each songs lead playing with some occasional additional commentary thrown in where pertainent.
Aint My Bitch Metal Slide? WTF? So fvckin what. Nothing new here. Sorry Kirk. Strike 1.
2x4 Lead starts monotonously, breaks into easy playin with once again, nothin groundbreaking to hear here.
The House that Jack Built Cool and moody if not repetitive. Then we get some nice talk box vocalization that suit the mood nicely. No epic lead work but some way cool effect heard here.
Until It Sleeps Surprise! I've heard this before. We have some song appropriate didling going on yet, nothing to amaze most fellow guitarists.
King Nothing I've heard this too. Well at least he's reaching for something here and it sounds like some old Kirk shining through on guitar! Best lead work on the album so far yet if talking technical finger movement & rockin out & not simply being like the previously heard samples of appropriately song fitting colorized diddling?
Hero of the day Holy $#!t! 3 songs I've heard before. Lead is melodic and simple as well as short. Does it even count?
Bleeding Me There's some old Kirk doing his thing. Sounds good, song appropriate yet, nothing really new, groundbreaking or amazing. Getting yer point CW.
Cure Yet Again, just song appropriate diddling. Good enough but I am beginning to consider your right about this and I too feel the disappointment. We really are expecting more aren't we?
Poor Twisted Me Nasty ripper that starts with feeling & promise yet doesn't fly & soar to a fitting ending.
Wasting My Hate Wasting my time! No lead.
Mama Said No lead playing is what Mama must have said!
Thorn Within Short melodic chromatic bleh
Ronnie Some nice riffin in the background but no actual lead breakout solo part.
The Outlaw Torn Wow! I made it through the album. I thought about giving up with 6 songs still to go but hung in there. Great intro & a way cool song. Quite different from the others yet undeniably Metallica. Awesome. This must be good live. Kirks lead part? Volume swells and repeated idea lines then BaaM! He's Diggin in & really reaching for it. Nothing technically amazing but I could feel it take off and fly for a while. Nice Guitar tones too. Great bass playing & it was cool that they hung back like they did making the build ups & explosions of power really work their magic.
Well CW, I totally see your point. I'm not going to play Devils advocate & say his playing fit each song & most bands would be more than happy to have their guitarists do such a job. I will say on most songs except for the last one ''The Outlaw Torn" we could easily be justified in wanting more from him in the 'amazing guitar player' department. He just doesn't do anything awe-inspiring or jaw dropping like he once did. I think he is totally playing the song at hand but even still, it just doesn't rise to the expectations of an amazing guitarist. How much of that was an intentional shift? A producers prefference? Kirk not feeling it or seeing the need for amazing lead guitar work? WTF knows? Something changed fo sho.
I hate to say I wasted my night Googling & YouTubing Metallica schtuff because I really did like this "load" album from '96 and was surprised to find I had heard some of this material without realizing it. And, It was the four power members that had just took the world by storm and had recently defined themselves as a genuine Super Group kick-ass band. I'm not sure if this was actually the first album after touring for all those years after the Black Album or not but if I was, I expected bigger better and more epic songs along the lines of 'The Outlaw Torn' & 'Until It Sleeps' for instance.
Oh by the way, who is this Miley guitarist you mentioned making lots of money but not liking and is he worse or better than Kirk?
Allot of them have a moment , and the time is gone . The one thing that some people do is a good thing, sometimes you grow out of it . trouble is the kids need their own identity
and therefore their own hero's
I love schenker [ better with mogg than not ]
Zoro from Metallica won the lottery , must have been non threatening that got him the gig
and somebody take away his wah wah ........please
I can't believe all the Kirk hate. I'm no Metallica fan, but if he sucks, I must be really really really really really really really bad.