Original G12-65 Speakers. Variations Through The Years And Clones.

Discussion in 'Cabinets & Speakers' started by Trapland, Apr 14, 2016.

  1. Trapland

    Trapland Well-Known Member

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    First I gotta say, some cabs full of g12-65s are pure ambrosia, others are merely terrific. I'm curious what the 65 lovers thoughts are about how the sound changed from say 79-83. If you have one in a 4x12 with 3 other mixed speakers you really aren't hearing the 65 due to its low efficiency. I'm more interested in the folks with sets that aged together.

    I have 3 matched quads all in cabinets. I also have 3 more singles. Even though the dates span a couple months on some quads, I am sure each set grew up together. I will, for ease of labeling, name the quads 79, 80, 83.

    Set 79 has standard white paper labels. 80 has Marshall brand labels. 83 is paper again. The 83 set sounds very, very much like vintage greenbacks to my ears. I hear greenbacks as slightly mid scooped with a bit of sizzle on top. My 79 set is my favorite, it curbs the sizzle while still managing chimey highs. The lows are tight, maybe lacking to some people. The mids are smooth, with no hump. The 80 set is much like the 79 set but with a bigger bottom while still tight. I thought it was the B cab it was in, but I moved them to an A cab and the same thing.

    Here's a funny thing, I have a single 83 in my DSL combo and its exactly like the 79 set.

    I also have a single from 81 that has the exact same celestion label as the white paper but the label is a silver metallic looking base.

    All of the cones have the same number.

    What else have the hardcore G12-65 owners found?
     
  2. Trapland

    Trapland Well-Known Member

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    I forgot to mention, I also have/had both a Weber and WGS clones. The Weber was excellent, maybe a more articulate version of my 1979 set. The WGS didn't really sound like a G12-65 at all. It was kind of nondescript and reminded me chinese of G12-75s.
     
  3. mtm105

    mtm105 Well-Known Member

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    someone posted earlier an email from WGS that WGS was created before G12-65.

    i'm confused.
     
  4. mtm105

    mtm105 Well-Known Member

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    FUCHS audio has WGS ET-65 stock in his ODS Combos. I imagine he wouldn't settle for less.

    You probably have wrong amp for speaker.
     
  5. Trapland

    Trapland Well-Known Member

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    Or..... Maybe that's the tone he was going for? That's fine but to me it sounds nothing like any g12-65. And its not about less, its about personal taste and comparing vintage to modern versions. It may sound nothing like a 65 to me, based on owning 15 originals and 2 clones, but it may be someone else's favorite speaker. Heck I didn't even dislike the WGS, it just ain't a 65 in my book.
     
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  6. blues_n_cues

    blues_n_cues Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I'm planning on Christmas for the 100H but the best thig is - should I sell my JMP-1 rack it's still in the $600-$800 range so no worries......
     
  7. SG~GUY

    SG~GUY Well-Known Member

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    -your a lucky man to have 3 vintage MARSHALL cab's with 65's-

    -besides GREENBACKS- (and we all know 65's are the original higher wattage GREENBACK's)-there my favorite speaker.

    -that's all I got besides an embarrassing story of selling a "B" cab with them for peanuts-(back then I didn't know there were different versions of CELESTION's,.. I would look on the back and if it said CELESTION, I was happy)-

    -pic's man!! PIC'S!!!!-

    -I never tire of gear porn-
     
  8. keennay

    keennay Well-Known Member

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    I own a matched full-stack of G12-65s from 1979, all original cones with the Marshall label.

    The speakers in the A cab sound wonderful when cranked and very similar to Greenbacks at mouse-fart volume levels. Trapland's description of his 1979 cab is pretty spot-on when it comes to my A cab from the same year. The speakers in the B cab however sound nothing like those from the A cab, and actually are less desirable to my ears. I almost bought the B cab over the A cab due to internet opinion about B cabs being superior to A. I'm glad I didn't and bought the full-stack anyway... though I would've been very content with the A cab by itself.

    About the same time I purchased my pre-Rola Greenback back from 1969, Guitar Center also had an 80's white anniversary slant cab with Marshall labeled G12-65. As much as I love my current quad of G12-65, the ones I played through the anniversary cab were definitely HOLY GRAIN 'the one that got away' speakers. I would've seriously broken my bank had I purchased both cabs then...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
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  9. Trapland

    Trapland Well-Known Member

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    Cool. My B cab full of 65s sounds slightly more like greenbacks to me but I know its only because its internal shape adds bottom end and the highs are either in your ears or of axis so it can sound bright or dark depending on where you stand. The A cab however is much more consistent due to the slant of the top 2 so I think it has a more midrange overall tone. I used to think the speakers themselves were radically different between my A and B stack cabs, so I did the tedious chore or switching them! The cabs sounded the same! Its definately the cab shape coloring the tone for these 2! Then I switched them back.

    On the other hand, my fawn slant cab sounds much more like the B cab and even more like the overall greenback character. Those are 1983 speakers. Maybe they need more break in time, I haven't owned that set that long.

    Curious... I owned 2 cabs one check with standard 25 watt greens and one basket with 20s. Both sounded good, similar. Sounded amazing playing alone, but I never could hear them well in a band mix without playing really loud. That basket weave was special though. It had a 3D quality where I the sound seemed to come from every direction. Wish I had given it more of a chance. But still, I can hear my 65s in a band mix at ridiculously low volumes. I like that and so does the bar.


    I'll try to get some pics up.
     
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  10. Trapland

    Trapland Well-Known Member

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    From the fronts... All original G12-65s. A couple random dated singles in the 2x12 and the DSL.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'm doing some amp maintenence this weekend so I'll take a few photos of the speakers themselves.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
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  11. Trapland

    Trapland Well-Known Member

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    I mixed my speakers up! I started wondering if my memory was correct so I played, listened and then opened cabinets. I took pics too. :)

    My black A cab has SILVER label G12-65s dated at the end of 1980. I have every reason in the world to believe these are original to this cabinet. They are black stamped 1777 cones. They have a nice balanced but big midrange, a nice bottom and some sparkle. They seem to have a little less "presence" than others I have when played with overdrive, but more sparkle and clarity when played cleaner.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Then I have a set that dates to Feb 1983. They are all the same month as well. These have white stamped 1777 cones and WHITE labels. They have a tone vey similar to the 1980 SILVER labels, but with a tighter low end and slightly more midrange "presence". I'm not talking about Vintage 30 midrange here, just a touch more than the very balanced 1980 SILVER label set. I have these in my fawn A cab and they are not original to it.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And a single from March 1983 also with WHITE label but BLACK 1777 stamp. It sounds pretty much exactly like the others from 1983.

    [​IMG]

    And finally my black B cab has MARSHALL labeled speakers that are coded T3120. That's the Celestion code for marshall labeled G12-65. These date to mid 1979, have 444 in black stamped over a white background. They are original to my B cab, but the photo shows them wired into another cab. I just returned them to their original state. The 444 cones are 55Hz instead of the 1777 75Hz cones. The sound of these speakers reminds me more of greenbacks than G12-65s and they have a very scooped sound. Big bottom, big treble and a pronounced scoop in the 800hz-1.5khz range by estimate. It sounds great for clean and modern heavy metal, but less rock and roll and 80 hair metal sounding. When sitting on the bottom of a full stack with the 1980 SILVER label A cab on top, it is the biggest baddest Marshall sound I've ever heard.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    That's all I have for now. Hopefully,I'll get some pics of some other singles I have as well as the Weber and WGS soon.
     
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  12. SG~GUY

    SG~GUY Well-Known Member

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    -I never new there were 444 bass coned 65's-

    -I want some!!!





    UOTE="Trapland, post: 1496409, member: 41874"]I mixed my speakers up! I started wondering if my memory was correct so I played, listened and then opened cabinets. I took pics too. :)

    My black A cab has SILVER label G12-65s dated at the end of 1980. I have every reason in the world to believe these are original to this cabinet. They are black stamped 1777 cones. They have a nice balanced but big midrange, a nice bottom and some sparkle. They seem to have a little less "presence" than others I have when played with overdrive, but more sparkle and clarity when played cleaner.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Then I have a set that dates to Feb 1983. They are all the same month as well. These have white stamped 1777 cones and WHITE labels. They have a tone vey similar to the 1980 SILVER labels, but with a tighter low end and slightly more midrange "presence". I'm not talking about Vintage 30 midrange here, just a touch more than the very balanced 1980 SILVER label set. I have these in my fawn A cab and they are not original to it.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And a single from March 1983 also with WHITE label but BLACK 1777 stamp. It sounds pretty much exactly like the others from 1983.

    [​IMG]

    And finally my black B cab has MARSHALL labeled speakers that are coded T3120. That's the Celestion code for marshall labeled G12-65. These date to mid 1979, have 444 in black stamped over a white background. They are original to my B cab, but the photo shows them wired into another cab. I just returned them to their original state. The 444 cones are 55Hz instead of the 1777 75Hz cones. The sound of these speakers reminds me more of greenbacks than G12-65s and they have a very scooped sound. Big bottom, big treble and a pronounced scoop in the 800hz-1.5khz range by estimate. It sounds great for clean and modern heavy metal, but less rock and roll and 80 hair metal sounding. When sitting on the bottom of a full stack with the 1980 SILVER label A cab on top, it is the biggest baddest Marshall sound I've ever heard.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    That's all I have for now. Hopefully,I'll get some pics of some other singles I have as well as the Weber and WGS soon.[/QUOTE]
     
  13. Trapland

    Trapland Well-Known Member

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    I'll trade you for a quad of 75hz cones!
     
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  14. SG~GUY

    SG~GUY Well-Known Member

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    -sadly I no longer have any 65's,... Ever try mixing that cab with a greenback cab?




    QUOTE="Trapland, post: 1496454, member: 41874"]I'll trade you for a quad of 75hz cones![/QUOTE]
     
  15. Trapland

    Trapland Well-Known Member

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    I really like greenbacks, but I'm not a blender. Speakers have such a huge effect on overall tone shaping that I dislike diluting any one speaker types sound. Plus one of my things is using inefficient speakers and greens are pretty efficient.

    Running g12-65s at 96-97dBm essentially makes your amp half the power when compared to GB or V30s at 99-100dBm. I've been asked to turn my Marshall UP by sound men. I've run it flat out in some rooms and still been overpowered by unmiked drums (with a 2x12).
     
  16. stilllifer

    stilllifer Active Member

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    Trap. What don't you like about the bass coned 65's??? Just curious. I love my 75hz '65s from 1981 but haven't heard the 55hz version.
     
  17. Trapland

    Trapland Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing I don't like about them! I just am used to the 75hz sound and I hear them better in a mix. If I was playing either mostly clean or midscooped modern metal they would be my first choice. I just like the late 70s early 80 hard rock tone better for what I'm playing live right now. Plus I do shows with 3 4x12s and would prefer them all to have a similar sound.
     
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  18. SG~GUY

    SG~GUY Well-Known Member

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    -I was thinking that you could run the 444-65's cab & a greenback cab together-

    -a lot of people don't like mixing speakers, but I believe the voicing makes the biggest factor, being how the 444 coned 65's have scooped mids, and the greenbacks have strong mids, could be a good mix..
     
  19. JCarno

    JCarno Well-Known Member

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    My favorite setup tone wise is my 80s 412 with the stock 65s(1777) and my EVH III with the stock speakers hooked up to my 4104. I'm nor sure what the speakers are in the EVH, I've read they are either 20 or 25 watt Greenback with an EVH sticker on them.
    Anyway, that combo is clear bliss to play. Unfortunately, I use the EVH with one of my DSLs so I can only use the 412 with 65s with the 4104.
    Still, the 65s are my favorite speaker and I also have an early 80s 212 with them in it. Got my Orange DT running through that. I also have one that's not being used at the moment.
    Best speaker Celestion ever built IMHO! :2c: :)
     
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  20. SG~GUY

    SG~GUY Well-Known Member

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    -i think the EVH III cans are some of the best cabs around-

    -the EVH III cabs-(4x12)-have greenback heritage speakers-(mislabeled 20w)-25w
     

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