Noisesuppressor - order of effects

Discussion in 'The Tone Zone' started by GuitarIV, Oct 13, 2019.

  1. GuitarIV

    GuitarIV Well-Known Member

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    I'm in the process of rebuilding my pedalboard and I wanna incorporate my Boss NS-2 Noisegate to keep my rig quiet. The NS-2 has a built in loop and you can utilize the 4 cable method:

    attachment.jpg


    Now the obvious order is guitar into tuner into the NS-2, from the loop send of the Boss I go into my Overdrive into the front of the amp, then from the amps send jack the signal returns. That way the Overdrive and the Amps preamp section is in the loop of the NS-2 to cancel out any noise, from here on I'm not sure:

    Should I include my Chorus, Delay and Reverb in the pedals loop or place them afterwards?

    I had a looper pedal on my old board and I had to put it last in chain outside of the NS-2 loop, otherwise it would gate what I had recorded. I have a feeling it's the same with my time based effects, if I include them in the Noisegates loop it might end up killing my repeats from my delay etc.?

    Just wanna hear your thoughts before I go on and build the board.

    Cheers
     
  2. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    Start the reactor... Free Mars!
    The gate is the last pedal in the effects loop chain.
    The output of the gate goes to the effects return of the amp.
     
  3. SkyMonkey

    SkyMonkey Well-Known Member

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    The BOSS site has this diagram:
    NS2_Diagram5[1].jpg

    Time based effects (and the looper) are after the 2nd NS stage.
    If the 2nd NS stage was after the time based effects (i.e. TBEs in cable 3) then delays might be suppressed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
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  4. GuitarIV

    GuitarIV Well-Known Member

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    And by that logic the delay, looper pedals etc. would all get gated when you don't want to.

    Please at least take the effort to read posts before you write nonsense. I've seen you do this often, someone else will find the thread, read your wrong info and wonder why it's not working.

    Awesome man, exactly what I've been looking for! So my suspicion was right :)

    Thanks for the diagram, I'll post a picture of the finished pedalboard later on :D
     
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  5. SkyMonkey

    SkyMonkey Well-Known Member

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    This way you initially gate the RF interference hum from the guitar pickups (NS stage 1), and then the hiss from the pre-amp (NS stage 2), allowing the TBEs to be cleanly processed.
     
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  6. DaDoc

    DaDoc Well-Known Member

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    Personally I gave up on noise suppressors a long time ago because they screw up the tone..I still have a Hush II rackmount unit that I should sell because it's just gathering dust. I tried it with my guitar rig, then with my P.A., and both sounded better when I took it out of the chain..Didn't matter where I put it in the chain, it made everything sound like it was covered with a thick blanket.

    Maybe they're building them better now then they were when I was experimenting with the darned things, good luck with your rebuild!
     
  7. jmp45

    jmp45 Well-Known Member

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    I would definitely not recommend putting a suppressor at the end of the chain. After your drives is where I'd go with it and before all time domain effects and looper. Not sure how you'd do it with the 4 cable method my Marshalls don't have loops.

    Off topic a bit: I picked up an ISP Decimator 2 recently. I have programmable loop switchers on my boards. I have it at the end of the chain behind the dirt / drive pedals before time domain effects. Works great, I have a bank where it is in the chain after the higher gain drives. I have a Hush pedal, it lacks transparency, do not like it. The ISP does not color to any degree not acceptable for my tastes.

    Out of the box the ISP pedal gain was way off boosting the signal. There is a trim pot on the inside. Counter clockwise slight change will bring it down. It's touchy. I set to patches with the same drive, one with the isp the other without. A/B'd til I got it set right.
     
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  8. GuitarIV

    GuitarIV Well-Known Member

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    There certainly is a coloration to the tone, you lose a bit of highs but it's nothing I can't compensate for with the treble and presence controls on my amps. So considering the zero noise it's a compromise I can live with :)

    I have a DSL and a Laney IRT I use the pedalboard with, both have loops. I could go out and buy something more expensive but honestly the Boss NS-2 works well, is sturdy and reliable and cheap too.


    Anyway, my build is done. Chorus, Delay and Boost pedals are after the gate. My rig is quiet as a church mouse now. Thanks for the help guys!

    IMG-20191014-WA0001.jpg IMG-20191014-WA0002.jpg
     
  9. KraftyBob

    KraftyBob Well-Known Member

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    Interesting topic. For some unknown reason I've always placed my gate at the end of my chain. I'm using the Helix now so I'm going to try moving it to first in the loop instead of last on a few of my patches.

    Good talk :)
     
  10. MonstersOfTheMidway

    MonstersOfTheMidway Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    The diagram posted above as first posted by another forum member is one great way of connecting the NS-2 in four-cable method. What makes it a great connection is its less likely to have the reverb "tail" and/or the delay's repeated notes cut off by the NS-2 (or any other noise gate that has a built-in loop). I use the NS-2 a little differently, but I've tried the method illustrated above with great results, even with other ng/ns that do and do not have a built-in loop (i.e. distortions/overdrives/dirt pedals before ng/ns, and delays and modulation effects after ng/ns).

    But it's a matter of choice as there is many ways to connect a noise gate. If you like it at the very end of the signal chain, then do that if it works for you.

    @OP: good luck with your rig. Feel free to experiment with placement if you feel it'll give you better results. When I find something that works for me, I just leave it as is and focus on playing and having fun.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
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  11. MonstersOfTheMidway

    MonstersOfTheMidway Well-Known Member

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    I gotta agree with the quote above. Given that there are many different designs for noise gates (ng) and noise suppressors (ns), I've found that the variation also reflects qualities that a person might find excellent or less than. It takes time to find a good ng/ns that works for your particular needs, but if you keep looking I'm sure you'll find one that more than satisfies.

    To be clear, not everyone needs or should have a ng/ns. If you're the person who has a real quiet rig already, then I wouldn't even bother with ng/ns.
     
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  12. KraftyBob

    KraftyBob Well-Known Member

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    I'm mostly a home player right now, in a carpeted room, which is really quiet so I hear everything from my amp. The noise gate I use is some Line 6 model and I don't notice any change in tone while it's active. I also don't try to eliminate every bit of hiss as you can still slightly hear some in the background.

    I bypass the noise gate on all my clean and crunch patches so it's only getting limited use anyhow - but I'm happy with it.
     
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  13. Dmann

    Dmann Well-Known Member

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    I'm doing 4cm with an Axe-Fx II and EVH5150 iii.

    The noise gate is the very 1st thing in my chain from the wireless transmitter.

    In fact this got me thinking about all the various rigs I've used over the years, art units, Tc electronic units, pedal setups, ADA Preamps, etc and etc and yup, noise gate was always 1st.

    This setup allows no compromise on fullness and sustain while also letting all your time based effects cleanly and clearly diffuse.
     
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  14. KraftyBob

    KraftyBob Well-Known Member

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    With this configuration what noise are you blocking if it’s the first thing in your chain? What about hiss from the amp?
     
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  15. MonstersOfTheMidway

    MonstersOfTheMidway Well-Known Member

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    I, too, have the Ibanez DE7 delay pedal; it's an amazing little device that provides instant gratification. I don't use it much anymore, but it's too good to sell. I love the knob design (for those who don't know, after you adjust parameters with knobs, the knobs can be pushed into the device locking them in place so that the knobs are not accidentally moved by your foot.
     
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  16. DaDoc

    DaDoc Well-Known Member

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    My rig's a bit noisy, but I've got it down to a point where I can live without a noise gate. The Noisiest amps I own are my two '70's Fender Champs that I like to run in stereo for practice..Compared with them, my 50 watt JMP/ Fender Twin Reverbs in stereo are reasonably quiet. :hippie:
     
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  17. Dmann

    Dmann Well-Known Member

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    Its blocking the input. No input = no noise. If you have noise then something else is causing issue you should attend to instead of trying to mask it with a gate imo.
    In 30+ years gigging have never once had an issue or complaint from audience, sound engineer or recordings of live shows as it's hardly audible unless you are sitting in a room by yourself with the amp... maybe then.

    And further why would all these pro audio developers design their product with the gate 1st in the chain (right after guitar input) if this was not the best place for it?

    Just my opinion.

    Ymmv
     
  18. chromeboy

    chromeboy Active Member

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    I used skymonkey's suggestion using the diagram and it works great for me. Tried going back to my old way which was to just use the effects loop of the ns-2 for my overdrive pedal but I still got amp noise. Went back to the diagram skymonkey suggested and it works much better. Cut out a lot of amp noise. Of course there is still is some but very very little. I like a quiet rig and using my ns-2 this way really works well for me. Nothing is perfect but the less noise the better.
     
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  19. KraftyBob

    KraftyBob Well-Known Member

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    Interesting approach. I wasn't questioning in a way that I thought what you were doing was wrong (apologies if it came across that way), I was really curious as to your configuration.

    I'm going to test your setup on one of my patches to see how that works with my amp. I have the DSL40C and the Ultra Gain channel provides some great white noise if your having trouble sleeping and want to drown out other ambient noises, but it sucks for playing at louder volumes.
     
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  20. chromeboy

    chromeboy Active Member

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    I'm playing through a Jet city 100hdm which has tons of gain and hence noise but this really works.
     
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