New Speaker for 2525c

Discussion in 'Cabinets & Speakers' started by Fuse, Nov 25, 2019.

  1. Fuse

    Fuse New Member

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    Hi all. I'm a newbie here with a question. I've got a 2525c (the Silver Jubilee mini combo), and while I like it, I'm not that nuts about the speaker. It compresses too much with distortion, and the sound disappears into the back of the cab even with the presence turned all the way up. So, I'm thinking about trying a new speaker in it. The stock speaker is a Celestion G12M-25 (Greenback). After doing a bunch of reading, I'm leaning toward a Celestion G12H (55) from the Heritage Series or a G12M-65 Creamback. Any thoughts or recommendations? Thanks.
     
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  2. Sustainium

    Sustainium Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t heard much if any complaints with greenbacks, you might be the first.:coffee:
     
  3. Fuse

    Fuse New Member

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    Well, the G12H (55) actually is a greenback. But the G12M-25 that's currently in the amp just doesn't do much for me. As I said, the sound just tends to disappear into the back of the cab as it distorts, and I really don't like that. I've heard that because the G12H (55) was originally a bass speaker and has a different cone in it, it doesn't compress back as much. So, that's why I'm interested in it. As well, the 2525c is a REALLY bright amp, and I wonder if a G12H (55) might help tame that down a bit. Has anyone out there heard a G12H (55)? Can you tell me anything about them?
     
  4. Bloodrock

    Bloodrock Well-Known Member

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    You say the amp is REALLY bright but you’re playing with the presence all the way up? Lol. Man I’m not sure what sound you’re looking for but the Jubes sound great with V30’s. They were designed around that speaker.
     
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  5. Fuse

    Fuse New Member

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    Have you ever actually played a 2525c? If you had, you'd understand the problem with the brightness (and the presence doesn't have anything to do with it). I mean, there are people on other forums who just describe that amp as "harsh," and it's really something that you either like or totally hate. I'm certainly not the only person who has ever tried to do something to get really great tone out of a 2525c, so I'd really appreciate it if you didn't act like I have no idea what I'm doing. I do. I was just asking for some responses about two specific speakers. And I don't want to put V30s in it.
     
  6. Bloodrock

    Bloodrock Well-Known Member

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    Actually, jubilees are one of the darker sounding Marshalls made. And yes, I own a 2525c, with a V30, I’ve got no problems getting great tones from it. Maybe you’ve got the wrong amp for your needs.
     
  7. Kinkless Tetrode

    Kinkless Tetrode Well-Known Member

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    I have a 2525H and I played it through a GB loaded cab but there was always something not quite right. One day I ran ran it through one of my old Vintage 30 loaded cabs, and there it was. It sounded so good. Not a hint of harshness. The Vintage 30 has rolled off highs compared to both G12Ms and G12Hs.

    If you don't want to put a V30 in, I would certainly go with the G12-65 before a G12H, especially if you find it a bright amp. But I hope you will try it through a broke in V30. The V30 combined with a Jube is a match.

    BTW the Vintage 30 uses the 444 bass cone.
     
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  8. Fuse

    Fuse New Member

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    Thank you so much for your kind reply! I appreciate the info.
     
  9. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I have a 2525h and an original 2558. I don't find them to be bright amps, I'm bettjng it's the speaker.
    Get a V30. The original has the Vintage Marshall branded ones that V30s are based off.
    I would try one for sure.
     
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  10. Biff Maloy

    Biff Maloy Well-Known Member

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    I have the 2525H, G12H55hz, etc.

    The 55hz is a great speaker but i don't know if it's the cure for the top end on the Jubilee. It's got a syrupy low end and is a bigger sound solo'd compared to a 25 watt Greenback. But, it has a cutting top end to it. Definitely eq'd differently than the 25 watt.

    Speakers are like pickups. Too many variables.

    I just about always run my 2525H through my 1960AX with Greenbacks. But, i do have a closed back 1x12 with a Vintage 30 i use also. It does sound good with that one.

    If i were you and wanted to experiment I'd look out for a used Marshall G12 Vintage 70 watt speaker. These came in some of the 4x12's and are in the Mini Jubilee matching cabinets. They are a tweaked V30 and are not the same. I'll admit I've never tried this speaker but there's a reason why they are picked and a lot of players have liked the match. My next 4x12 will probably be a Jubilee cabinet if in good shape or a 1960AV or BV. Same speakers.
     
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  11. Fuse

    Fuse New Member

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    You're right, Biff, there are a lot of variables to consider. And you know, after spending a lot of time listening to every sound clip I could find (because I don't have access to the sound of any of these speakers other than that), I've come to the conclusion that with the possible exception of the alnico speakers, I just don't really care for Celestions. I have heard various Celestions in amps at guitar stores, and in general, they've just left me kind of flat. That's not to say that they aren't good speakers or that they don't sound good, but to me, they're missing a sense of presence and dimensionality. It's like listening to someone playing the guitar behind a curtain even if I'm sitting five feet away from the amp. To me, the sound with Celestions just never seems to get completely out of the amp, and while that likely isn't a big deal to a lot of guitarists, it is to me. In the end, I don't want to be blown away by tone; I want to be blown back by it.

    As well, while I appreciate all the suggestions, if I put V30s in my amp, I think I would probably end up with a good-sounding but one-dimensional amp that sounds just like everyone else's Silver Jubilee. And that's really not what I'm after. I mean, it's probably absolute sacrilege to say this on a Marshall forum, but I'm a Fender person and when I bought this amp, I didn't even know what the "Silver Jubilee sound" was. I got the amp because I wanted coherent, musical, present, dimensional distortion, and Fender just doesn't do that very well. Anyway, I'm sure I can get what I'm looking for out of my little Marshall. I'm just not going to get it out of a Celestion. So, I'm off to listen to other speakers from other companies. Thanks for the conversation, guys. It's been very helpful.
     
  12. Kinkless Tetrode

    Kinkless Tetrode Well-Known Member

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    One thing about Celestions are that they don't sound good before they break in. This is true of all speakers of course, but it seems to be more noticeable with Celestions.

    All Vintage 30s are not created exactly equal.

    The Marshall proprietary V30 was the first one made, around 1986, and it is the brightest sounding one, but not bright in bad way. It is slightly less honky in the mids than the others, and with a slightly deeper bass.

    The Standard made in China V30 is the most common and the one that get the most complaints about spikeyness. But I think these mellow out enough as they age. Bogner amps do sound great through these. Besides Silver Jubilees, Bogner 101Bs and many Mesa Boogie amps seem to really work well with Vintage 30s.

    The Mesa Boogie proprietary Vintage 30 is the warmest sounding version of the Celestion V30s.

    There are non Celestion variations of the Vintage 30 if you don't want a Celestion. There's are I believe two variations from Warehouse Guitar Speakers.

    Eminence has the Guvnor and the CV70.

    Mesa Boogie now has a proprietary speaker they call the Fillmore based on the CV70.

    A non V30 type speaker that I tried with my 87 Jubilee with good results once was a Kendrick 12" that was supposed to based on the 50's Jensen alnico. I don't know who made it. Really warm and smooth, but not very loud.

    Tone Tubby may have a speaker that will work.

    I suspect that some hemp cone speakers might work.
     
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  13. Fuse

    Fuse New Member

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    Thanks, Kinkless. Of all the Celestions I listened to over that past couple of days, the ones I thought might have some potential for me were the alnico series, the Alnico Cream in particular. But it would be a 90w speaker in a 25w amp, so I'm not sure how well that would work out (I generally aim for twice the amps rating in the speaker's rating). And at $300 a pop, it's pretty expensive to find out. In the meantime, though, I seem to have located a little shop on the internet that has some NOS Eminence 50w Red Fangs (they went out of production a couple of years ago). Of everything I've heard, I have to say that the Red Fang is certainly my favorite. It seems like a fairly aggressive speaker (I think most alnico speakers are), but since I don't play with a pick, I need a bit of aggressiveness in my speaker. Anyway, I ordered one, and if it doesn't work in the Marshall, I've got a little Fender it would probably sound good in.

    It's funny that you would mention Kendrick. I think the speaker you're referring to is their "Blackframe" model. I don't know much about their speakers because I usually only buy instrument cable from them because they are one of the few companies around that seems to have a good stock of the old version of Klotz LaGrange. They're nice people, though. If the Red Fang doesn't work, I might have a look at their speakers (or maybe just look directly at a Jensen).

    One other quick question for you--a while ago, I remember reading a thread on this forum centered around another guy who had just gotten a Silver Jubilee mini and wasn't liking it at all. He had a lot of the same gripes about the amp as I do. It was a really long thread, and at some point, someone wrote in about replacing the V1 tube in the preamp. Was that you?
     
  14. Kinkless Tetrode

    Kinkless Tetrode Well-Known Member

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    I don't recall. But V1 will certainly effect the voicing of the amp. If you find the amp bright a darker V1 will always help. I used an RTF in V1 for awhile, but it went microphonic.

    My 2525H came with Tung Sol EL34s from the factory. I found it brighter than my 87 at first. When I swapped tubes from my 87 50 watt into the mini it sounded 95% to the 87. Tubes matter in the 2525. It is not one of those amps where tubes don't make much difference. Those EL34s were =C=. The Tung Sols sound great and not too bright in my 50 watt Jubilee biased at about 67%

    The 2525 is cathode biased. You can just install any tube with the same pin out with out worrying about bias. I even install KT66s in mine for awhile. The Mullard reissue EL34s sounded warmer than the tung sols. I am currently running EH 6CA7s in mine for the extra bass. But these will also add bit more treble. I just the run presence and treble lower.

    Alnico type response id what they were shooting for with the V30s:

    https://celestion.com/speakerworld/guitartech/7/66/Vintage_30:_A_Tonal_History/

    So you might find that a real alnico works good in a Jubilee.

    I found this this old thread at TGP interesting and in line with my experience:

    https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...lee-huge-faux-pas-match-your-speakers.859531/
     
  15. Fuse

    Fuse New Member

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    OK, you all have convinced me. I reread this entire thread this afternoon, and one thing I noticed is that almost everyone's posts seemed to end with "put in a V30." So, I figured that if I could get a used one cheap enough, I'd try it. I did just pick up an Eminence Red Fang, which I think might sound nice with the SJ, but I can always put it in an extension cab. Anyway, I found a V30 on Reverb and bought it. It's one that was made in the UK, and its code is T4416. I think that's the model of V30 that was/is made for Mesa amps. I paid $70 for it, and if the seller is being honest, it has about one hour of playing time on it. So it isn't broken in at all...but maybe that's why the guy is selling it. Anyway, what do you all think?
     
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  16. Kinkless Tetrode

    Kinkless Tetrode Well-Known Member

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    The Mesa version is the warmer sounding Celestion V30 version. The Red Fang could be interesting too. All you can do is try them out and see what works for you. It's just getting through the break in period. "Grin and bear it." I think exploring versions of the Vintage 30 or Alnicos is the right path to explore with the Jubilee, though.

    The large dust cap G12-65 or equivalent (not to be confused with the G12M65 Creamback) might be another option should these not work out for you.
     
  17. proxy

    proxy Active Member

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    Silver is a bit on dark side of a tone spectrum.
    You should get Celestion G12-35XC speaker.
     
  18. proxy

    proxy Active Member

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    I am the first.
    That speaker never stop farting ....
     
  19. Fuse

    Fuse New Member

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    Well, I just don't think of the SJ mini as a dark amp at all. I mean, when you have to turn the treble down almost all the way to get something close to a balanced clean tone, that isn't a dark amp. But I think all that is pretty subjective. On the Marshall spectrum, the SJ might be considered a dark amp, but compared to a Fender (which is mainly what I play), it's got way too much treble. But who knows--maybe that's the hallmark of the British sound.

    The G12-35XC looks like an interesting speaker, but it's only 35 watts. For a 25 watt amp, I like to use at least a 50 watt speaker. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
     
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  20. Kostas

    Kostas Member

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