Man the JJ ECC823 just didn't do it...

Discussion in 'The Tone Zone' started by Adrian R, Feb 2, 2020.

  1. Adrian R

    Adrian R Well-Known Member

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    Okay so a few of the members recommended this tube for the JVM...to reduce some of it's gain ...

    So like I tried it now for several weeks to a month at practice and at home...

    Didn't really notice much loss in gain...but what I did notice over time that my JVM just didn't sound right... it had this funky thing going on in the mid frequencies... and my DSL and 800 didn't have that same weird sound. Was beginning to think I had to unload the JVM cause it was just not sounding like a proper Marshall.. Then I remembered that I had put a 'JJ' preamp tube in the head...and from what I remembered in the past JJ tubes just didn't sound right to me...

    So I removed the JJ preamp tube and placed both and EH and Tungsol, Raytheon, Chinese 12AX7s and that killer Marshall tone came back. I especially like the BP Raytheon in V1 and the EH in V2. I love that JVM again.

    Preamp tubes, certain ones anyway, have a profound affect on amp tone.
     
  2. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

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    Too many Spatens bro, you forgot you put a ECC823 in your amp a month ago? LOL

    I suspect that tube is only really good in a 2 channel amp like the DSL, where you want to not affect the clean channel but want to lower gain on the dirty channel.

    Give us a full review of that tube, I've always wanted to try one. :yesway:
     
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  3. Adrian R

    Adrian R Well-Known Member

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    Spatens? Nahh...dude it's Irish season...doing the Guinness variations! lol I didn't really notice much of a difference in preamp gain in the amp's OD channel... there was some, but nothing drastic. What I did notice it the tone changed...a weird mid frequency I wasn't used to. It definitely changed the voicing of the amp... just enough for me to notice...and go...ewwww...what's that?
     
  4. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

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    You dont have to tell me, I live 20 minutes from the only Guinness brewery in America! Cheers to JVM! :cheers:
     
  5. Matt_Krush

    Matt_Krush Well-Known Member

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    EH and Tung Sol...to me sound the same (of course they look alike construction wise and come from the same plant).

    I think I have a JJ803 in my V1...or a Sovtek LPS (they are pretty close in tone...the Mullard Long Plate is the same as the Sovtek) and in the Phase Inverter.
    May Have use a Tung Sol in V2
    Kept the Shuguangs in the cathode follower/tone stack spots.
    Just used the JJ/Marshall for the effects loop buffers.

    I will say the best 2 brands of power tubes I tried in the JVM thus far is the JJ KT77 and the Tung Sol EL34B.
    Tried EH 6CA7s, JJ EL34s...and they are only useful as spares in an emergency.
     
  6. MonstersOfTheMidway

    MonstersOfTheMidway Well-Known Member

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    The Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 sound pretty good in my stock 410H when used in the gain stages, but the Tung-Sol 12AX7 sound a little too bright in those same positions. But, if I need to tame a "dark-ish" sound guitar/pickups, then the Tung-Sol 12AX7 would be a good choice. Be it EH or Tung-Sol, both 12AX7 types have plenty of drive but are also very quiet.

    I'm currently running JJ ECC83-S in the gain stages because these tubes tend to have a "darker" tone that rolls off/filters off the high end, which in my case is good because I'm using a guitar that sound a little too bright. Typically, I'd run EH 12AX7 in all positions, but right now I need something that kills off the high frequencies a little better.

    I also love the Shuguang/Chinese 12AX7-B in all preamp positions in the 410H. But I gotta admit that I'm a little worried that supply will drop sharply and prices will rise sharply due to the current coronavirus outbreak, which is affecting some factories of various industries. If you love Shuguang preamp tubes, right now might be the best time to buy.
     
  7. Adrian R

    Adrian R Well-Known Member

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    Mom...I would agree..about the TSol being brighter....it's also a bit more harsh then the EH....similar gain though...I do like the black plated Raytheons more though...clearer yet warmer... The JJs sound weird to me...
     
  8. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    There is huge differences between preamp tubes.
    It can change the sound of the amp entirely, almost like a different amp.
    But it doesn't mean that JJ isn't good in another application. I use them quite often and get good results sometimes mixed with other brands.
    I like Sino EHX GE, etc. too, they all have their own pluses somewhere.
     
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  9. EndGame00

    EndGame00 Well-Known Member

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    I like the Sovtek 12ax7WA in PI... considering it is one of the most hated/despised current prod preamp tube aside from JJ ecc83....
     
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  10. MonstersOfTheMidway

    MonstersOfTheMidway Well-Known Member

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    :agreed:
    I do very much agree with this post. Each of those little preamp tubes really bring their own thing to the table, especially when used in the gain stages. The sonic characteristics can be very dramatic, sometimes even polar opposites from brand/model/type to brand/model/type. Still, it's kinda fun trying them all out.

    Apart from what @ampmadscientist is saying, I think modification will also play a huge role in perception of an experience. For example, the exact same preamp tube will probably sound differently in a standard/unmodified version of one amp compared to a modified version of the same brand and model amp. If you're an amp owner who is on the fence about modification, changing preamp tube might be a good, cheap, and easy alternative to modification.

    In the end, we all do what we think works best for our needs and purposes.
     
  11. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah modification is a big factor.
     
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  12. MonstersOfTheMidway

    MonstersOfTheMidway Well-Known Member

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    Hey Sammy.
    The JJ ECC823 is not a tube type that ever really caught my interests regardless of the amp brand/model. I can't remember why you chose to use ECC823, but if it was to lower the gain factor you may have had other or even better options.

    I definitely think JJ preamp tubes in general do have their own thing going on, which is probably the same thing you're thinking of when you say they sound "weird." I use JJ type ECC83-S in my 410H now that I'm running a strat, but when I was using my Les Pauls, the JJ ECC83-S was projecting a tone that was way too "dark" for these guitars because these guitars project a more balanced/middle of the road eq spectrum that I felt needed a similar type tube (Electro-Harmonix was my choice for use with Les Pauls in the 410H). JJ power tubes are another story, though. I run JJ E34L in the 410H, which yields great results. I can't say I've tried JJ in every single amp I've ever played but I do believe that results will vary from amp to amp.

    To me, a Tung-Sol 12AX7 would be a good idea to brighten up a somewhat "dark" amp and/or "dark" guitar where the higher end frequencies are for some reason missing in the amp and/or guitar. Great tube, but perhaps best reserved for specific applications.

    I don't think I ever used Raytheon's in my 410H, but it's an interesting idea. Perhaps it's something to try in 2020.
     
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  13. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about hated / despised...
    JJ is Telefunken, which is the world broadcast standard. They must be doing something right.
    I feel that most of this "hated" status is rumors planted by competitors.
     

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