Kitchen Sink Mod , Burning Tubes

Discussion in 'The Workbench' started by Loud and proud, Jan 18, 2019.

Tags:
  1. Adieu

    Adieu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,414
    Likes Received:
    1,364
    Best advice comes from within lol?

    I've got at least 8 JJ-labelled tubes in amps that I've bought used over the years, that came that way, presumably with significant mileage... and they're still going. None of em failed yet.

    I don't use em MUCH... but they undeniably work.
     
  2. NewReligion

    NewReligion Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,074
    Likes Received:
    7,942
    Location:
    Paradise

    I read through most of this. What I did not read was important. Pull the HT and Mains fuses to ensure the correct voltage fuse is installed. You should be blowing fuses, not TUBES. I have found 10 amp fuses where 2 amp fuses should have been.

    Then pull it together and do as the experienced guys told you. Learn to bias the amp. Slowly check the amps circuitry visually. I isolate many issues this way. Then try the chopstick test in a known pattern.

    I have a 1976 SL Kitchen Sink from way back and two BE 100's. I am pretty familiar with this circuit as are many here.

    I look forward to this one. Best of luck. We will get you lined out.

    David
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
    charveldan likes this.
  3. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    16,730
    Likes Received:
    10,611
    Location:
    Bio-Isolation Lock Down
    I used those tubes for decades.
    The last shipment of 40 JJ tubes from CED / APEX, I think there was 1 bad one. That's hardly a 50% defect rate! :run:

    We bought many tubes last (2018) year from Eurotubes, and there were zero defects. All the tubes worked fine and they are all still working.
    The customer service was outstanding, and the shipping was prompt.
    There was no problem what so ever.

    As I understand, Eurotubes pre-tests all the tubes they ship.
    (the packing was good too)
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
    NewReligion likes this.
  4. Blackeyes

    Blackeyes Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2018
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    61
    What happened to the 2 vendors names??
     
  5. charveldan

    charveldan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,248
    Likes Received:
    5,125
    Location:
    Somewhere with a Friedman Marshall & Les Paul.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
    ibmorjamn likes this.
  6. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    24,172
    Likes Received:
    11,115
    Location:
    US of A
    I have none of those. :)
     
    NewReligion likes this.
  7. NewReligion

    NewReligion Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,074
    Likes Received:
    7,942
    Location:
    Paradise
    Back it all up a bit. Did you check the fuses yet?

    David
     
    anitoli likes this.
  8. printer

    printer Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2017
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    93
    If I may ask, what went wrong with the tubes? Did they short out? The screens go? The grid get fried? The plate burn up? I am not familiar with the mod, any schematics that you can point to. Just for giggles, the screens will go if the resistors on them are not high enough in value. The grids need to drain electrons to ground, if the grid resistors are not low enough you may get the charge counteract the bias supply. How about oscillations? Has the amp been scoped? Might be ringing outside the audible range. No mention of bias yet or the voltage the amp is running at.Really not enough information in the thread to make a WAG with.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
    NewReligion likes this.
  9. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    24,172
    Likes Received:
    11,115
    Location:
    US of A
    Someone should describe the kitchen sink in short order for at least some understanding.
     
    NewReligion likes this.
  10. NewReligion

    NewReligion Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,074
    Likes Received:
    7,942
    Location:
    Paradise
    The Kitchen Sink was the name Dave Friedman Gave to his 3/4 stage high gain mod with SAT (Clipper on optional DPDT which operated from the original V2 pin 8 cathode follower) before he latter added the C45 & FAT options on DPDT’s evolving to the “Marsha” (Jerry Cantrell) and finally his development of his own evolving generational changing BE100’s which had only simple tweaks in the High Gain or Clean sides of the preamps while releasing the Double J & SS DtevevStevens models. The clippers varied as well but primarily the same circuit.

    For this purpose we should be dealing only with single channel 4 stage High & 3 stage low gain inputs set up like a 2203 Dual input but more sophisticated voltage dividers etc. all VX, V1a/b & V2a cathodes are 2.7k .68uf bypass cap. VX and V1a anodes are 100k in series with 220k with 500pf bypass on the 100k’s. V1b and V2a are stock 100k design. Mixers are 470k. Stock tone stack. 100pf fizz cap. 5 k Presense 100k/47k NFB with a fixed resonance of a 220k paralleling a .0047uf connected to the speaker out. Preamp couplers vary etc...

    There are some other little tricks to the preamp but not necessary to list.

    The PI, Power and Rectification are stock. The Filtering may vary.

    In summary IMO this amp’s Power Section should be examined and considered as that of a stock 1987/1959 which ever is applicable.

    I STILL would like some acknowledgment concerning the FUSES lol.

    Let me know if you think you “need” any additional data. I have not noticed the OP interacting much.

    Enough with the tube wars guys lmao. Let’s get this man’s amp lined out.

    Peace, David
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
  11. NewReligion

    NewReligion Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,074
    Likes Received:
    7,942
    Location:
    Paradise
    We need feed back on basics from the OP.

    :)David:)
     
  12. charveldan

    charveldan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,248
    Likes Received:
    5,125
    Location:
    Somewhere with a Friedman Marshall & Les Paul.
    Dave check your PM box.
     
    NewReligion likes this.
  13. ibmorjamn

    ibmorjamn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Messages:
    7,308
    Likes Received:
    5,045
    Location:
    North
    What power tubes do you recommend ?
    Besides nos. Are all current production tubes bad ?
     
  14. charveldan

    charveldan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,248
    Likes Received:
    5,125
    Location:
    Somewhere with a Friedman Marshall & Les Paul.
    Ive been using the Tungsol EL-34B's about 6 years and they're amazing.
    Great sounding, reliable and everything you want in an EL-34.
    Svetlana & TAD are nice too.
    Sino aint bad either.
    Alot of people like the EH products as well.
     
    ibmorjamn likes this.
  15. 67Mopar

    67Mopar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    2,404
    Today's tube supplies are hit and miss. I suspect inferior metals are the largest contributor to this, but I suppose there are QC issues involved as well. I've never found a set of JJ tubes that I didn't throwaway or sell.
     
  16. anitoli

    anitoli Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    7,099
    Likes Received:
    8,193
    Location:
    Lewiston, Maine U.S.A.
    Aside from a few JJ 12ax7's that the glass cracked they seem to work as good as anything else. And depending on the amp, their inherent darker tone can be a benefit if you have a really bright amp. For example my Fender Dual Showman Red Knob ( late 80's model) was unmanageable with Raytheon tubes in it, but JJ's have actually made it much better sounding. There is an upper frequency in that head that you can't dial out but the JJ seems to kill some of it so there you go.
     
    NewReligion likes this.
  17. NewReligion

    NewReligion Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,074
    Likes Received:
    7,942
    Location:
    Paradise

    Agreed. Since we are continuing the tube talk I have had much better luck with JJ EL 34 and E34L’s than the Ruby EL34B’s.

    I ordered 5 quads of the Ruby’s which sustained a delivered 25% failure rate. Of course it was corrected but as we know if time is not money it can be a great inconvenience however I stock ahead of having that issue but the average guitarist may not.

    Imagine having a failed tube on stage with a 50 watt and your spare set happened to have the anomaly of both being bad. Not only are you down on stage, one would suspect a bigger issue. Yes I know of this scenario lol.

    David
     
  18. ibmorjamn

    ibmorjamn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Messages:
    7,308
    Likes Received:
    5,045
    Location:
    North
    Cool , thanks. I have a bunch of different pre-amp tubes but I have not replace my EL84'S in my EVH LBX 15w .Of course quite different from EL34'S.

    It might be the most difficult to get the right tubes for it. I get so much info and so many different explanations especially power about power tubes. Most of what I hear is power tubes don't make a huge difference . Not that I disagree but I have not yet tried any.

    84's can be odd depending on the circuit I guess . They tend to break up early and can be harsh sounding when driven hard.
    That being said my opinion at this point is I should try different power tubes.
     
    charveldan likes this.
  19. charveldan

    charveldan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,248
    Likes Received:
    5,125
    Location:
    Somewhere with a Friedman Marshall & Les Paul.
    Like you said EL-34 is a bigger market. EL-84's are limited but i have seen some nice true NOS Amperex EL-84's from time to time on ebay. might be worth checking out. Cheaper than 34's too. I would only buy tubes that are tested and can see the data.
     
    ibmorjamn likes this.
  20. ibmorjamn

    ibmorjamn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Messages:
    7,308
    Likes Received:
    5,045
    Location:
    North
    I am going to try all tung-sol's just to see if it's better.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice