Jvm410h / Od1- And Od2-problem?

Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by akruseberg, Apr 27, 2018.

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  1. akruseberg

    akruseberg New Member

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    Hi.
    I´m new to this site, and new to amps.
    I´ve played for some years, but never really bothered that much about pedals and amps, until now. So I´m a noob. Bear with me...

    I´ve just got myself a JVM410H with a 1960a 4x12 cabinet(ordered online). I was super excited to get it home and try it(at bedroom-friendly levels), but I got some issues with the sound.

    On OD1 and OD2(orange and red - and a bit on crunch/red), the sound seems flat, and there is a fizz/buzz/magnetic-"kindoff"sound when I play(especially when I play the lighter strings), which gets stronger when I up the gain on the amp, so I now have to play with gain at 9-10 at most.. I don´t really get the warm/fuller tone I want, when playing rock/metal. I´ve read about mods and pedals all over the internet, but I´m totally new to this, and would like some advice.

    It´s the tone itself that is the problem, so any hizz/buzz/fizz between notes is not an issue.

    - Is there any chance that there is something wrong with my amp?
    - Will it be better with a pedal/noise gate?
    - Anything else..?
     
  2. deadbug

    deadbug New Member

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    At what volume are you playing at ?
    Did you aquire the amp new? Or used?
     
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  3. akruseberg

    akruseberg New Member

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    9 o´clock, and yes, it is new. It does sound better when I play at higher volume, but I can´t do that all the time, so I would like it to sound better when I´m not playing that loud aswell.
     
  4. deadbug

    deadbug New Member

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    I have the same amp and will often play at that level but dont have what you describe as a sound what is your guitar
    And pick ups and are you using a quality chord ?
    How about the rest of your settings presance/ resanance treb mid and bass
    Also how did you plug your cab in impedance
     
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  5. akruseberg

    akruseberg New Member

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    I´ve tried it with my Gibson Les Paul Standard 2016, and Fender Classic Jaguar HH 2017. Both got stock-pickups.

    I´ve tried to adjust most of the settings to solve it, but still having the thin/flat fizz-sound when I try to play rock/metal on OD1/2(orange/red).

    By impedance you mean ohm? I´ve connected it to the 4ohm, but I tried 16ohm at first.

    What settings are you using?
     
  6. MonstersOfTheMidway

    MonstersOfTheMidway Well-Known Member

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    Hello. Some details jumped out at me from several of your posts.

    In this this first quote below you say the undesired sound gets stronger when you "up the gain" on OD1/orange mode, OD1/red mode, OD2/orange mode, and OD2/red mode (and a bit on Crunch/red mode).
    Then, in the next quote below you say the sound gets better when you play at a higher volume.
    So you're saying that if you play with a lower gain setting (roughly at 9 or 10 o'clock) and with more volume, you get a better tone? I'm not sure if it's your settings, but that's my first guess. Another thing that is missing from the discussion is your settings for bass, mid, treble, resonance, and presence. I recommend disconnecting all effects when working on settings to focus on just the guitar an amp sound.

    Several years ago, Dave Mustaine was a 410H user; he published some of his settings for the 410H. You can try these to see if the sound improves, which is more to the point than trying to sound like Dave Mustaine:
    [​IMG]

    Another thing to check is "POWER AMP INSERT/SERIAL LOOP" switch on the back. Sometimes, the "bypass/active" switch gets pushed in and activates the this loop, which sometimes produces a bad sound. Look in the back to make sure it's in the "bypass" mode.

    Additionally, if your 1960A cabinet is brand new, you might need to give the speakers a little break in time for improved sound. You can play a different amp through it, or you can hoop a stereo system or MP3 player to the cab and let it play for a couple of hours (I like using music with lots of deep bass).

    You could also check the bias. If you are unfamiliar with checking the bias, ask someone who has experience help you with checking the bias. I set power tubes for approximately 35 milliamps per tube, but I've also gone down to 30 milliamps per tube with pretty good results, too. If unsure, ask someone with experience to help you set the bias if necessary.

    You might have a tube that is malfunctioning; it could be a preamp tube, a power amp tube, or even both. Tubes can fail at any time for a variety of reasons. If you have some extra tubes that you know are in good condition, you can try plugging these in when the amp is off, then turn the amp on to see if the sound is improved. Unless you have extra preamp tubes and power amp tubes handy, I would leave this as the last resort because it is money that will have to come out of your pocket.

    Finally, if all else fails, you can take it to a tech. If you purchased the amp brand new, it should still be under warranty (unless you purchased it used or it has been modified). In some cases, the warranty might even cover the tubes if the amp has been in your possession for a couple of weeks. If the amp in need of serious repair, see if the dealer is willing to send you a new 410H in exchange (sometimes dealers offer extended warranties, but sometimes salespersons will do this even if you didn't buy the extended warranty in an effort to keep a good customer.

    Good luck with your sound. Let us know how things turn out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
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  7. akruseberg

    akruseberg New Member

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    First off; thank you so much for a great respond! I really need to read and learn to understand my amp(or any for that matter).

    The sound seems fuller when I play on higher volume, but that is at a level my neighbours would dislike in the long run, so I have to turn it down to a more modest level. So, at higher volume, the sound is more full, but still it have this flatness/fizz. It is just more camuflated in the bigger sound, in a way. Hard to describe, and my english is limited.

    I tried the DM-settings, but with a more modest level at volume and master, and the problem still seems to be the same. When I higher those levels aswell, the amp squeals alot, and the volume is simply too high, even for me, not just my surroundings.

    - Power amp insert/serial loop is at bypass

    - How do I connect a mp3 to the cabinet? Not through the head?

    - I have no experience in checking the bias, and sadly I can´t think of anyone I know, who can help me. Is there a video explaining it somewhere? Easy to do?

    I made contact with the store, and I´m waiting their response.
    My old amp/stack is a MG100FX. Should I try to plug the head of that to the new cab, and the other way around?
     
  8. clutch71

    clutch71 Well-Known Member

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    I think Monster hit it out of the park but I will add to keep in mind that the transformers are new and they are continuing to break in.
     
  9. spacerocker

    spacerocker Well-Known Member

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    Really? I've heard some BS and snake oil in my time - but in what way to transformers "break in"?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
  10. ampeq

    ampeq Well-Known Member

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    I to had a 410h, had. I just sold it and was very happy to take a $1000 loss. If you have not had it very long see if you can return it. If so, try a Mesa TC100. Look one up and check it out, I think it's a much better amp and at about $500 less. If you can't take it back, you will need a noise gate and talk to some of the guy's on here that do mods all the time. They can help you do some mods that will make the amp much more usable. I just didn't think I should have to modify a $2500 "flagship" amp. To me the crunch channel is excellent, the clean is ok but set up bad. The 2 OD channel's are a joke, they sound like a cheap stomp box and because they put so much gain in them it makes most of it unusable. Your right with the gain, about 9 o'clock is as far as you can go. Get ahold of JCMDOUG here on the forum, he know's what these amp's need and can help you. He's a nice guy and know's Marshall's. I'm not a Marshall fan, I like Carvin and Mesa'a, but that doesn't mean you can't get a Marshall to rock as well.
     
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  11. MonstersOfTheMidway

    MonstersOfTheMidway Well-Known Member

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    @akruseberg :
    Hello.
    I read your reply to my post.

    As far as speaker break in, you can attach a small MP3 player, radio, or stereo system, to the cabinet in a similar manner as how you would plug in a pair of headphones into these devices. You may need a audio cable with 1/4 inch connector/plug on one end, and a smaller connector/plug (probably the typical 3.5mm or 2.5mm) on the other end. If you can't find that exact cable, then you might need to buy a 3.5mm cable and also a 1/4 inch connector/plug adapter that fits one end of the 3.5mm cable. The 3.5mm connector/plug of the cable hooks into an MP3 player, and the 1/4 inch connector/plug hooks into the cabinet. Again, you might be able to do the same thing with larger devices, such as a radio or a stereo system, but you will need to make similar connections between these devices and the cabinet. I hooked up a small MP3 player to my 4x12 cabinet for the whole day playing hip hop, rap, and electronic music with deep bass; it worked really well though I threw a blanked over the cabinet because the sound was a bit loud.

    If in doubt, take it to the store and either have them check the amp out, or ask them to give you another, if possible. At this point I would avoid things like modifications and noise gates because the amp may have a real problem that requires a fix.

    Good luck with your amp. Let us know what happens.
     
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  12. Deep Purple fan

    Deep Purple fan Well-Known Member

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    I’ve had three JVMs.... 210H, 410C and 410HJS. All are absolutely fantastic amps. Don’t give up on it. No need to MOD it. You own an absolutely magnificent amp. Hang in there.

    I suggest you plug straight in. No effects in front. Make sure your cables are all good. That includes using a proper speaker cable and NOT a guitar cable to coonect the head to the cab. Set all eq to 5. (Noon). Make sure you set resonance to five as well. All eq to 5. Set gain to 3. Turn master volume above whisper to say loud home stereo level. That should be about 1. Then take the presence and treble and dial those to zero. Nothing. Don’t dial out the bass or middle....just presence and treble. Adjust the treble and presence up as needed. Then the gain. Put a delay in the fx loop and turn the mix knob on back down and adjust up as needed.

    The key for now is keeping the treble and presence low and the resonance, middle and bass at 5. Don’t scoop out the mids. That also includes channel volume at 5. You can dial mids and bass higher.

    I had a similar experience twice and both times it was the cab and not the amp. Both cabs were brand new. One was a Marshall 1960TV with greenbacks and the other was a Carvin 412 with Celestion G12T-75s. Cab will sound much better after a few hours of hard use.

    As a side note, if you’re a bedroom
    Player, a 1936 2x12 May have been a better choice. I went through a 2x12 phase and they have less issue with that fizzy sound you describe because you are working the speakers harder.

    If you still have trouble go to guitar center and get the hang of eqiing a Marshall.

    Key points:

    1. Make sure your cables are good. Instrument from guitar to amp and speaker from amp to cab.

    2. All eq to 5 except treble and presence which is zero to start

    3. Turn master up past whisper level. Put some hair on it.

    4. Make sure resonance is at least at 5.

    5. Speakers take several hours to breakin. Out of the box they sound fizzy.

    6. Put a delay in the fix loop. Start with mix knob at back turned lower.

    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
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  13. akruseberg

    akruseberg New Member

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    I really appreciate all the response!


    I will look into your advice, and get back to you both. Really need to give myself some time to learn aswell. i´ve, as I said, already made contact with the store so they already know I have a issue, but I want to get this to work first and foremost.

    Will try more tomorrow. I will 100% ask more questions to both of you. Haha.
     
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  14. crossy67

    crossy67 Active Member

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    Did I read this correct? You need to use 16 ohm input not the 4 ohm for speaker connection?
     
  15. Karl Brake

    Karl Brake New Member

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    I had good experiences with the amp.
    .one thing I found was that I got a fatter sound by keeping the gain on OD channels at only 2-4, wayyy below half, and pretty much dimed the channel volumes for preamp tubes gain, then inched up the Masters to the venue. But any time you have weird tones get a tech. But it's also cheap to check for a bad preamp tubes just by rolling a good one through the positions.
     
  16. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member

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    Well, set the 1960 cab for 16 ohm and use the 16. That way if you ever add a cabinet, you can run ut at 8 with 2 cabs. I mean, you can anyways but must remember to set the cab to 16 that way. If you run it at 16 it can just stay set there.
     
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  17. crossy67

    crossy67 Active Member

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    ?
     
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  18. MonstersOfTheMidway

    MonstersOfTheMidway Well-Known Member

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    I just saw this post.

    Questions:
    *Did you set the switch on the back of the 1960A 4x12 cabinet to "mono"?
    *Did you use a speaker cable, and not a instrument cable?

    On a stock 1960A cabinet, the jack plate switch should be set to "mono" in your particular situation, just as is pictured below.
    [​IMG]

    Then, on the 410H, you select either 1x4 ohm or 1x16 ohm as your loudspeaker connection options because you are using only one 4x12 1960A cabinet in mono, and the 1960A cabinet choices in mono are 4 ohm or 16 ohms. For 1x4 ohm, you would use the output that is on the top furthest to the left in the picture below; for 1x16 ohm, you would select the output furthest to the right in the picture below.

    [​IMG]

    Connect the 1x4 ohm output on the 410H to the 1960A input furthest to the left labeled "4Ω input." Or, if you want to connect using 16 ohm, on the 410H connect the 1x16 ohm output to the 1960A input furthest to the right labeled "16Ω input." To ensure the safest mode of operation, use these connection options each time you play. There are other ways to connect, but these are the methods that are safest for your amp and cabinet.

    Here's an interesting discussion on connecting these type of cabinets:
    http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/how-do-i-connect-my-amp-to-my-cabinet.101019/

    Good luck with your gear. When you have the opportunity, let us know how things are going.
     
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  19. JCMDOUG

    JCMDOUG Well-Known Member

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    That's an older cab with the 280 watt power rating very cool, early JCM900 speaker cab.
     
  20. JCMDOUG

    JCMDOUG Well-Known Member

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    keep working with the amp even the tubes need to break in, I always re-bias my new tubes after a good 8 hours of playing or about 3 gigs.
     

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