It's 2019: Let's Talk Amp Modeling

Discussion in 'Other Amps' started by dibble, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. dibble

    dibble New Member

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    Ok, this is heresy, I know.

    My absolute favorite tone in the whole world is a 2203 cranked through a 4x greenbacks. But, realistically for everyday playing that's just not practical--even with an attenuator it's still just damned loud for bedroom practice to get the sound right.

    So--what is the current state of modeling amps, profiling amps, computer software--specfically in reproducing that classic 80s marshall 100watt sound?

    I don't have the resources to try every combination of what's out there. For those of you that do, or have tried some other options, what comes closest these days? And, after doing it what is your opinion on the value of doing so? Worth spending the $$$$ to have something close enough to the real deal for daily playing? Or save your money and don't bother and enjoy the real deal 1/2 stack when the stars align?

    For reference, I have the positive grid software running through an iPad out to a very clean fender super 60 since 2012 or so. It comes close--close enough to use and not be frustrated by the sound. But, it's not the same as the real deal. I'm mostly wondering if I'm as close as can be still, or if there's newer/better tech out there now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  2. johan.b

    johan.b Well-Known Member

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    You're a new member so you might be forgiven..:cool: but this is the vintage amp side of things.. your thread belongs in others amps section..
     
  3. dibble

    dibble New Member

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    Thanks. I'll move it over there. [edit] already done for me. thanks, mods.
     
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  4. JacksonCharvelAddict

    JacksonCharvelAddict Well-Known Member

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    For low volume playing I like to use my Kemper. I love the tone of the Kemper through the effects return on my Marshall stack. Usually I only do that when I want a good bt of volume. For night time playing I usually run it through my studio headphones.
     
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  5. crossroadsnyc

    crossroadsnyc Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    :yesway:
     
  6. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    I do not own a Kemper but here's something for you to think about.

    BP
     
  7. Frodebro

    Frodebro Well-Known Member

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    I have a DSL sitting on top of a 1960A in my living room. 99% of the time I use the Kemper instead due to its great sound at low volume, and when I actually do decide to get loud I still usually run the powered Kemper into the 4x12.

    You don’t have to spend Kemper or Fractal money to get great sounds at low volume, though, as even the stuff in the lower price point is sounding pretty damn good in the last couple of years.
     
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  8. anitoli

    anitoli Well-Known Member

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    You get what you think will give you what you want, you only live once and it's only money.
     
  9. dibble

    dibble New Member

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    I have no idea what I want, which is why I'm asking.

    I mean, sonically I know what I want. But, how to achieve it A) most accurately, and B) if several do it very accurately, what is the simplest and/or most cost effective way to do it?

    If a Kemper is where it's at, then I could go that route. But, if i could achieve just as good of a result with a $700 bias mini modeler through a 1x12 cab, then why not do that?

    As I said, I'm currently using software through an iPad out to a 1x12 fender and it's close enough. But, 5 years later now I'm wondering if there's better--and if so, is it worth the bother.
     
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  10. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    Shoot "...... 5 years later..." well yeah there's lots better these days.... it's up to you whether it's worth the bother and the money.
    But if this...."software through an iPad out to a 1x12 fender" is what you've been running thru for the last 5 years maybe just peruse a Boss Katana or the like.
    BP
     
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  11. wakjob

    wakjob Well-Known Member

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    I've had KPA & FAS... they are amazing in their own right.

    They WILL sound nearly identical to their respective tube counterparts. Like 90+ percent... but unless you are playing them at a volume level that is equal to the statement above with your tube amps, then you will be let down.

    Been down ALL the roads, SS, Hybrid, Tube, Attenuator, PPIMV, Racks, Analog Modeling, Digital Modeling, VST's, 'Full Range' systems, ect... you name it, I've probably experimented with it at a significant financial loss.

    Nothing fully recreates that "thing" that we experience with a loud-ish guitar amplifier. Them speakers gotta be moving at least a little bit. The wood of that speaker cab needs to be vibrating...at least a little bit, or the whole 'vibe' we crave just won't be there.
     
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  12. 67Mopar

    67Mopar Well-Known Member

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    If you don't need hundreds of amp models, consider getting something like this... The amp on the right, is a NMV Ampeg GVT5. The pedal on the floor is a Kingsley Jester V2. The amp goes from 5 watts to 2.5 watts. Super quite, with tone that kills! Best part... No digital! The GVT5 can be had for around $200.00 USD, the Kingsley Jester for around $400.00 USD. If you want more power + MV, the one on the left is a GVT15. You could also get a Marshall SJ 2525 combo for a bit more, but the tone isn't as heavenly, IMO.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    Hey..first time I've ever seen those. They're cute. And sound "heavenly" you say.?
    Worth looking into.
    Will also look into the Kingsley Jester which I think I heard tell of on That Pedal Show.
    Thanks.
    BP
    p.s. I use the Catalinbread SFT V1 pedal to get the Stone's Ampeg era sound and it does it very well imo.
    I don't suppose those Ampegs can produce that sound, can they?
     
  14. Deep Purple fan

    Deep Purple fan Well-Known Member

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    I think the new Studio line is a good choice. How can you argue about a 20W JCM800 into a good greenback 1x12. That would be my first recomendation. A Kemper, to do it right will be close to $3K new. I think Kemper is a great studio amp, a great gigging Musicians amp and a lot of fun. However, if I were to have just one amp.....it would be a valve amp.
     
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  15. wakjob

    wakjob Well-Known Member

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    I'll also add that the biggest benefit to quality digital modeling is that you'll be able to try amps that you've only dreamed about...and at 90+ percent accuracy, that saves a TON of time and money imo, especially if you're on a tone quest or something.
     
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  16. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    If you want to try it without getting too deep money wise, try a line 6. This will give you an idea.
    The main complaint is that it does not track the faint decay of notes and other subtle expressions of playing.
     
  17. 67Mopar

    67Mopar Well-Known Member

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    The GVT15 would be the one to get. And yes, they are based on the old V4 circuit. The Jester could actually qualify as a preamp. Not modern sounding at all. Fattest mids I've ever gotten from a pedal. The GVT5 is SE class A. The GVT15 is class A push-pull. The GVT is class A/B push-pull. The GVT5 and GVT15 can be a bit tough on power tubes, but that's the nature of class A power.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
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  18. houseofrock

    houseofrock Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
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  19. bobpick68

    bobpick68 Well-Known Member

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    It's all in application for me. Live work? When I was doing the working cover band thing and we played everything from Pink to Motorhead I really preferred going direct to FOH with whatever processor I was feeling on a given night. The ones I have are Helix LT, RP1000 and GT-100. Typically I trusted the Helix LT the most and used that 80% of the time. The ability to go from spanky Fender cleans with a touch of compression, chorus, and delay to aggressive Marshall tones and lots of FX on hand is a no brainer for a live cover band.

    Now I am retired from doing the cover band thing and am focusing on assembling a original band in the hard rock/metal arena I don't need all the extra stuff a modeler can provide, so I am going with a Marshall half stack and a hand full of analog pedals for live work. I will mic my 1960 cab with a 57 and a Sennheiser 609 with the 57 on the cap and the 609 at the edge.

    Recording? Modeling wins again BUT I prefer to use Amplitube 4 for that and usually Ownhammer IR's. There's no gain staging to deal with as far as making sure your modeler plays nice with your interface and gain staging is NUMERO UNO when it comes to recording guitar via modeling. Come in too hot and it's digital clipping like crazy, come in not hot enough and it's weak sounding so it's a delicate balance to get it just right. One of the things I love about the GT-100 is a patch that enables you to gain stage your input perfectly per guitar but it's still a matter of gain staging your output properly to the interface.

    In the end it is the golden age of music technology and such a great time to be alive using it.
     
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  20. Buzzard

    Buzzard Well-Known Member

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    Um...no.
     

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