I'm New To Tube Rolling :) Dsl40cr

Discussion in 'The Workbench' started by cspencer, Aug 19, 2018.

  1. cspencer

    cspencer Active Member

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    Hello,

    I bought a new DSL40CR and am new to tube-rolling. I bought some tubes to replace the Marshall tubes.

    Here's what I have:
    V1. Genalex - Gold Lion ECC83 / B759
    V2. Mullard 12AX7 ECC83 Reissue
    V3. Mullard 12AX7 CV4004 Reissue
    V4. Genalex - Gold Lion ECC83 / B759

    thinking of experimenting this:
    V1. Genalex - Gold Lion ECC83 / B759
    V2. Genalex - Gold Lion ECC83 / B759
    V3. Mullard 12AX7 CV4004 Reissue
    V4. Mullard 12AX7 ECC83 Reissue

    or:
    V1. Genalex - Gold Lion ECC83 / B759
    V2. Genalex - Gold Lion ECC83 / B759
    V3. Mullard 12AX7 ECC83 Reissue
    V4. Mullard 12AX7 CV4004 Reissue

    Any comments/suggestion appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  2. tschrama

    tschrama Well-Known Member

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    dont do it
     
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  3. cspencer

    cspencer Active Member

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    Why?
     
  4. tschrama

    tschrama Well-Known Member

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    NOS, premium priced, gold plated, balanced etc etc tubes dont sound better.

    Tubes just have slight variations in their pinch-off voltage and transductance. Just like caps have 10% tolleranceses. Resistors 5%, electrolytics 20% etc.

    Its a waste of effort money. Your ears will fool you.

    A 2 cent resistor makes far more differ3nces than a different tube.
     
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  5. MarshallDog

    MarshallDog Well-Known Member

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    Pre amp tube changes will make a big difference in tone, compreesion and gain just like speakers do. I can usually tell a difference in tone when I roll power tubes but their effect is a bit less. The best thing you can do is just try them and see if you like, everyones idea of the perfect tone is different.
     
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  6. cspencer

    cspencer Active Member

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    I'm not quite into NOS at this stage and kind of like the line up I have. Just experimenting high/low gain in PI. Rolled a Tung Sol 5751 and didn't like it in my other amp. Now trying a high gain in V3 and quieter CV4004 in PI. I'm getting good gain/volume levels with very little hiss.
     
  7. charveldan

    charveldan Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Those are all Russian and going to sound about the same.

    Not that there's anything wrong with that.
     
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  8. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

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    I had a DSL20HR and rolled a bunch of tubes power and preamp and to my surprise the JJ and Shuguang tubes that came with the amp sounded best which leads me to believe Marshall designed this amp around those tubes. Tube rolling can be expensive, it may not be as necessary with these new amps. This is just my experience/opinion I haven't heard anybody else say this.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
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  9. cspencer

    cspencer Active Member

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    There's definitely a difference I hear with these tubes. I must admit that I didn't hear much difference on the DSL20. But on the DSL40, there's a real difference when I put the Gold Lion Gold Pin into V1 = super clear when playing clean. When I put the CV4004 into V4/PI, the Ultra gain became solid crunchy, not fizzy. When I put the Mullard 12AX7 into V3, the treble, bass and reverb are suddenly working. Especially reverb. It came alive.
     
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  10. Chris-in-LA

    Chris-in-LA Well-Known Member

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    I assume that you mean that the treble, bass and reverb were working when you bought the amp but now they work better?
     
  11. cspencer

    cspencer Active Member

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    Correct lol
     
  12. Justin Whitstine

    Justin Whitstine Member

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    @cspencer do you know what the different tubes are used for in the dsl40cr?

    v1
    v2
    v3
    v4

    Couldn't find that info in the amps manual.
     
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  13. Michael Inglis

    Michael Inglis Active Member

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    I'm so glad I saw this I'm thinking the exact same thing, lol I've tried everything in my DSL100HR. Tung sol(way too bright), electro harmonix (to bassy and had a bad triode on one so quality might be an issue anyways), sovtek 12ax7LPS (liked it the best very quiet and similar to shuguang 12ax7b's but still not better than stock) even tried new jj ecc83s's and they were WAYY too muddy. But I changed the output tubes first with new jj el34's and I was not happy then i tried the electro harmonix EL34EH's an i'm loving what they have done for my amp (im permentently keeping them in my amp for the foreseeable future). With the stock marshall jj el34 and new jj el34's i couldnt bias higher than 80mv a side at best (for a quad it would be anywhere from 65-90mv a side). But the electro harmonix EL34 bias higher as they should and sound great at 84mv. I actually am ok with the stock preamp tubes but the new jj's didn't sound the same I even just put a new jj in v1 and left the shuguang 12ax7b's alone and it sounded different than the same thing but with the stock marshall jj. I want to find a replacement that works when the stock pre's go bad. Lol o can't just be happy the amp sounds good now I want to know what I can replace the marshall branded JJ with when the time comes(certainly not another JJ as I found out the hard way). Anyways i really am happy with the amp now that I put in the electro harmonix EL34's it cleaned up the mudd for sure. I'm planning on always using the shuguang 12ax7b's in v2 an v3 but I want to find a v1 tube that has more gain saturation without getting muddy like the new jj ecc83S's did and a good phase inverter v4. Oh and the electro harmonix EL34 seriously knocked back the hiss and fizz. I have a matched set of Mullard cv4004's coming and they are supposed to be great in high gain marshall amps (that's always how they are described on all the tube sites). Lol anyways I'm glad I saw your comment. I don't know if you'll see this but I'll message you if I find something that works as good or better than the stock pre amp tubes. Your not alone and your right the stock tubes sound the best as far as I can tell minus the output tubes.
     
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  14. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    v1 A Input gain stage
    V1B Ultra lead 1, lead 2 second gain stage (is not used by clean / crunch)
    v2 A third gain stage (used by all channels)
    V2 B Fourth gain stage (used by all channels)
    v3 A+B traditional Marshall Compression stage for all channels (drives tone stack) cathode follower
    effects send and return: solid state op amps
    reverb send return solid state
    v4 Phase inverter

    In other words: clean crunch bypasses the V1B gain stage entirely.

    So now it's come full circle:
    first Bogner modified the Marshall design by adding 2 more gain stages.
    Now Marshall copies Bogner's form-factor. (a 4 stage preamp)
    Essentially, it's a Bogner built by Marshall.

    Hey now this could be a pretty good metal amp.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
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  15. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you can buy a stock set or two directly from Marshall for a spare. Get them while they have them!
     
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  16. dro

    dro Active Member

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    I know people who use the Gold Lion for recording but will swap in a JJ to gig with, so as to keep the high $$$ tubes longer. Some can hear difference some can't even within the same brand. II have bought The Lion's , the TAD's and such.But if I'm at a gig and I loose a tube I'm popping in whatever is handy .
     
  17. Justin Whitstine

    Justin Whitstine Member

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    @ampmadscientist Wow thank you for the amazing reply! I recorded that into my nerd notes on my amp! I'm looking to change tubes out at some point. If you were going to swap out a few tubes for improved tone, what would they be? Love to have any more of your knowledge!
     

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