Gibson is fighting for it’s life

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by paul hancher, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. paul hancher

    paul hancher Well-Known Member

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    i wrote this in another thread but thought it would make a good new thread. let me know what you think!

     
  2. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

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    I hope they figure it out, regardless they are still my favorite brand. :yesway:
     
  3. paul hancher

    paul hancher Well-Known Member

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    out of curiosity i have been looking at other forums for activity on this subject. a quick unscientific survey found:

    marshallforum: numerous threads about the video, dean lawsuit and gibson in general. very healthy interest.

    the gear page: same as marshallforum. numerous threads. healthy activity.

    les paul forum: hardly a peep. one thread on Mark A., one on the dean lawsuit, barely anything else. very few comments on the threads as compared to the activity documented above.

    interesting results. i would have thought that the les paul forum guys would be going crazy over this but it that is not happening. maybe most of them have given up on the current gibson entity and are living in the past with their vintage and CS pieces never to look back.
     
  4. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    Paul, I understand ( I guess) all the gnashing of teeth concerning the Gibson Guitar Company but bottom line imo is really, who gives a Flying V ?
    Yes I guess with all the boomers with one foot in the grave now and the generation thereafter all probably wanting to liquidate their Gibbys however with, as you say, Gibson soon to be extinct, the value of their guitars would in the long term would be going up in value not down.
    What's the big deal? Everybody fretting (lol) over the demise of an American iconic guitar builder? The loss of an institution?
    The ownership not caring about music or guitars but just about the money to be made?
    The music industry doesn't give a damn about music anymore! ( if they ever did ).
    It always has been about money hasn't it?
    I understand that Gibson has come out with some really nice series for 2019.
    Better get 'em while you can!
    :2c:
    BP
     
  5. RLW59

    RLW59 Well-Known Member

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    Unless the guitar market collapses drastically (which is possible), I doubt Gibson will ever go away completely.

    If the current owners run it into the ground (which is possible), they still own iconic, popular designs.

    I think someone will still be making "Gibson" guitars 15 years from now. It might be Cort or some Chinese company, and they may build all the guitars in the Epi factory in China, but there will still be guitars with the Gibson logo.
     
  6. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to Les Paul's the past is where it's at.
    BP
     
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  7. Alter

    Alter Active Member

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    Or maybe the threads are getting deleted?
     
  8. Lance Chambers

    Lance Chambers Well-Known Member

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    I've been saying it for several years now. If Gibson wants to be profitable it will undoubtedly have to endorse a lower line of Asian import guitars. It seems now that the new owners have heard my message. It's coming folks! \m/
     
  9. paul hancher

    paul hancher Well-Known Member

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    gibson as a company or corporate entity has gone thru a number of identities:

    1) the original company founded in the early 1900’s

    2) acquired by CMI, a conglomerate of mainly Chicago based manufacturers, in the 1940’s

    3) acquired by Norlin, another conglomerate of musical manufacturers, in the late 1960’s

    4) acquired by Henry J. and a group of investors (many who were company employees) in the late 1980’s

    5) acquired by the current equity group in 2018

    i find it interesting that ownership of the company has changed hands in a fairly predictable pattern that has an approximately 30 year span between owners.

    i am also mainly basing my conclusion on the demise of the company on the fact that the current owner is the first that has afaik NO direct interest in the manufacturing of musical instruments. well that and the fact that this company is known for draining the life out of its’ corporate victims.

    and again i emphasize that i do not in any way enjoy or take any pleasure in what i am writing. just looking at the facts.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  10. paul hancher

    paul hancher Well-Known Member

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    perhaps you are right. gibson might survive as a brand like gretsch. i am not betting on it. the hubris and pride displayed by gibson management would not allow it. they will go down with the ship rather than let someone else captain the helm.
     
  11. paul hancher

    paul hancher Well-Known Member

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    i care. i know there are many more who also care. despite the bumbling and knuckleheaded manner in which the management acts i still hope they can turn things around. i do not like to think of a musical environment without gibson except as artifacts in museums and personal collections.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  12. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    According to your post then you are hoping against hope.
    Why anybody would have a sentimental attachment to Gibson considering that a large portion of the guitar buying / playing public is of the opinion that Gibson has been producing a crap product for the last 20 years is hard to explain.
    Emotionally of course all our fave bands/players back in the day played Gibsons on recordings / live of our favourite songs. e.g. your " living in the past" comment.

    So did KKR become a majority owner of a company 500 million dollars in debt specifically so that they could loan that company the money and profit from the interest?

    A musical environment without Gibson? How about a musical environment without melody!!! ( in which we currently live).
    I'm sure the Gibby lovers of our world already have the guitar(s) they want and the event of Gibson going tits up is of small consequence.
    Is the guitar dead ? I don't know. Is rock dead? I don't know. Is Gibson dead? According to you it is.
    Condolences. lol
    :2c:
    BP
     
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  13. chuckharmonjr

    chuckharmonjr Well-Known Member

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    They are doing exactly this now....only we deride them as "Chibsons"
     
  14. paul hancher

    paul hancher Well-Known Member

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    dead? not yet. the odds are not good though. and yes, i am hoping against hope, although i have little emotional investment in the current gibson entity. they lost me at the end of the norlin period although i have a couple of items that henry made that are useful.

    but yeah, hope against hope, man of la mancha, don Quixote and all that. keeps me busy.
     
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  15. John BNY

    John BNY Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I find it a little puzzling that people deride Gibson for wanting to generate revenues/profits. That's what all companies do -- they try to make money. Would anyone purchase stock in a company where management is not interested in generating profits?

    As for the trademark lawsuits, again, a company has a right to protect its intellectual property. Every single guitar maker out there files for patents to protect its intellectual property. And when someone infringes on its intellectual property, the company sues for damages. That's the reason companies file patents.

    Having said that, whether Gibson is successful in its lawsuits is a completely different discussion.
     
  16. paul hancher

    paul hancher Well-Known Member

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    yes, interest and the “managerial” charges that amount to tribute payments. they did it with toys r us, except the debt was five billion, instead of 500 million. actually gibson is small potatoes for them.

    and if they can’t profit from that they will strip the company of any and all assets until the company no longer exists. exhausting equity in intellectual properties ( e.g. trademarks) is one example.

    predatory private equity. look it up if you have any other questions.
     
  17. jstich

    jstich Well-Known Member

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    From what I understand is gibson should have been complaining about it these last 40 years. It seems you have to vigorously protect your ip.
     
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  18. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Nope. I've said my piece / peace .
    BP
     
  19. anitoli

    anitoli Well-Known Member

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    This is the part that so many are over looking, including when Dean started making V's Gibson wasn't making them.

    Sounds eerily similar to " I was raped after a school dance in 1952 and i want money NOW!"
     
  20. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    #metoo
     

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