Dsl15c Solution To Fizz

Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by Seventh Son, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I have. The DSL15C lives on preamp gain and the results weren’t worth it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
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  2. Mitchell Pearrow

    Mitchell Pearrow Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear that, I was just looking on the other side of the box so to speak, as it did work well with the avt
     
  3. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    I did another comparison between the DSL15C and DSL20CR today. I found that the DSL15C sounded much less refined, whereas the DSL20CR sounded focused and smooth. I think the stock speaker has a lot to do with it, but I also think the amp has a tiny bit of inherent fuzziness in its DNA.
    These are some old recordings I made with the DSL15C with the stock speaker and also run through a stock 1960A with G12T-75s, where you can hear how much more clarity the G12T-75 achieves with the amp.


    I spoke with my go-to guy at GC today. He recommended the Vintage 30 as the speaker that would tighten up and focus the amp. I also emailed Celestion to see what speaker they think is a suitable replacement, something that is similar to the stock speaker in terms of frequency response, but a bit more premium in sound. I'll let you guys know once I hear back from them. I think many DSL15C owners might find the info useful.
     
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  4. Mitchell Pearrow

    Mitchell Pearrow Well-Known Member

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    The second clip is a bit more smooth so to speak,nice playing by the way, to bad the reverse volume/gain trick didn’t help, but I too know the short comings of my speakers :cheers:
     
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  5. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. That's nice to hear, but credit goes to Iron Maiden for the songwriting. I'm just imitating their brilliant work.

    The more I research speakers, the more I am convinced that a Celestion Vintage 30 is the right speaker for me. I am going to put one in the amp and let you guys know what I think. I will also definitely provide before-and-after sound clips, so you can judge for yourself.
     
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  6. Mitchell Pearrow

    Mitchell Pearrow Well-Known Member

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    Yes I new it was Maiden, just complimenting your playing :cool:
     
  7. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    Another measure that can be taken to reduce fizz with the DSL15C on recordings, where the fizz presents the most challenges, is to move the microphone to the edge of the speaker, placed roughly where the left side of the SM-57 is aligned with the edge of the surround. This really helps the midrange fall into place. However, because you also lose some highs, and thus end up with a somewhat dry, papery tone, it may be a good idea to place two SM-57s: one by the surround, and the other closer to the center to capture the whole speaker. Also, as you move away from the center, you lose presence, so it is really important to set the Presence control pretty high and to back off the mic enough to avoid too much bass build up. Anyway, for those of you who are using the DSL15C to record, I think you'll find that many of your headaches will be lessened by placing the mic close to the edge of the speaker. I really like the way the amp sounds in the room, but recording with it is a whole another story. I have ordered a Celestion Vintage 30 that is arriving tomorrow. I will definitely post comparison clips on here and report my findings from the upgrade.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
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  8. jericbrazier

    jericbrazier Well-Known Member

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    I put an Eminence Swamp Thang in mine. It sounds great! Killer bass response, and no fizz. I would STRONGLY recommend this speaker for DSL’s
     
  9. jericbrazier

    jericbrazier Well-Known Member

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    That’s exactly how I use my clean channel!!
     
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  10. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    Very good to know. I will keep that in mind, should the Vintage 30 not yield significant improvement.
     
  11. GIBSON67

    GIBSON67 Well-Known Member

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    I just received an JJ ECC823 valve to roll and I'll let you know how that goes.
    But supposedly it tames the OD channel by changing V1B to a 12AU7(lower gain), and leaving V1A as a 12AX7.

    Oh, and mine sounds best through a vintage T1281 G12H30 that I have in a 1x12 combo.
     
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  12. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    Here's the promised comparison of the G12E-60 vs. Vintage 30 in the DSL15C. To my ears, the Vintage 30 sounds a little thinner, but it is also much warmer and more refined, with a more complex crunch, and tighter and much cleaner lows than the G12E-60, which sounds thicker but also has some thick and muddy sounding low mids and a very muddy bottom end. Let me know what you think.
     
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  13. Mitchell Pearrow

    Mitchell Pearrow Well-Known Member

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    The first speaker with a a tad bit of fizz is the one that I like it is the one in a band mix that would stand out and be heard
     
  14. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    The first speaker is the G12E-60. In theory, the Vintage 30 should be the one that stands out more, since it is known for its infamous midrange. There are two reasons I could think of why it doesn't sound as thick as the G12E-60: (1) The speaker is brand new and needs to be broken in and (2) it is not being driven hard enough (volume was at 2.5) to reveal its true character. I read somewhere that the Vintage 30 has to be played very loud, or it will sound thin and fizzy. Hopefully more guys who are knowledgeable about the Vintage 30 will chime in and provide additional insight on this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  15. Classicplayer

    Classicplayer Active Member

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    I think that you are right about the V30. I have it an Orange single speaker, closed back cab. It took quite a while to break in because I don't play often at home with loud volume. In time, it settled in and matured enough to where it‘ snow smoother and even louder volumes seem more tolerable.


    classicplayer
     
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  16. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    Was there a big difference before and after it was broken in? Does the clip I provided sound about right to you as to what the Vintage 30 should sound like? The interesting thing is, the Vintage 30 is supposed to have a pronounced midrange, but in my clip, it is not that obvious. What I do hear is an upward shift in frequencies, which sounds very classic metal, except that it is missing the thickness compared to the G12E-60.
     
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  17. Classicplayer

    Classicplayer Active Member

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    The clip that you posted up had me thinking that the V30
    had a touch more bass. Both speakers sounded very good, but the V30 is a bit better IMO. I have it in my PPC112 which is a closed back cab. I have to be careful with those bass frequencies and to offset it, I adjusted my Les Paul's pickups to compensate for it. Some may find the contrast between the highs and the bass in my cab, but I look upon it as kind of an advantage towards getting a more full and powerful sound, yet still clear on the higher strings. It took me lots of pickup tweaking and comparing.

    Now that I think my V30 is pretty well broken in.....the bass is still as it was when new, but the highs seem to have smoothed out better. I've used the speaker since last September of '17, but cannot tell you when the change happened....it was not sudden, but more of a gradual maturing and the right amount of cone excursions to get
    there. A lot depends on what volume you operat it and how often it gets a workout.


    classicplayer
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
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  18. Classicplayer

    Classicplayer Active Member

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    I should add that I want to hang onto my Dark Terror amp and the PPC112 as #1 it is a varied and inspiring sound and #2 I want to be able to go to sleep at night with that “familiar” Orange grind in my mind, so that I can sort of visualize how to tweak the amp controls to make happen the sounds that I hear in my mind! Crazy?
    Perhaps, but I do enjoy the “mind” experiments and seeing how close I can get it when plugged in and tweaking knobs. I'm learning a lot about playing higher gain'd nasty-sounding amps.


    classicplayer
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
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  19. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    Today I got to listen to the new speaker in the room. Basically, as far as the bass content goes, the Vintage 30 in the DSL15C now sounds more like the Seventy 80 that came stock with my DSL20CR. I reckon they are now more tonally similar since the DSL15C with the new Vintage 30 has a tighter bottom end, and the DSL20CR has the EL34 tubes, which also have a similarly tight bottom end. The Vintage 30 is a very British sounding speaker. It has a ton of mids, very clean, tight bass response. I'd think of it as an EL34 in speaker form. That's the best way to describe it.

    What I really like about it is how clean it sounds on single notes, and phrases played on the neck pickup have a very beautiful clear, singing quality. It is excellent for that kind of stuff. No wonder this is the speaker that Slash uses to make his Paula sing. Just like when I got the DSL20CR and had to get used to the different feel of the EL34s in it, it'll be a while until I get used to the same in my DSL15C, which used to have a massive bottom end on palm mutes with the stock G12E-60 speaker, but was also incredibly harsh and muddy, to the point of garbled, in the lower mids, as my recording above demonstrates.

    I turned Presence down a bit and Bass up a bit, to compensate for the harshness of a brand new speaker, and I also dialed back on the mids, which this speaker has an abundance of. The great thing about the Vintage 30 is that I now have more mids on tap, whereas before I had to almost max them out to get close to the tones I wanted. This allows me to operate the EQ more normally, instead of resorting to extreme settings that leave little room for further fine-tuning.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  20. Mitchell Pearrow

    Mitchell Pearrow Well-Known Member

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    My grandson has the 212 V30 Orange cab and paired with a 40c it was very good at removing a bit of the fizz from that amp, but since I bought him the th30 Orange head it is mated to that and fx loop send from the Orange to the instrument in on the 40c, the pair of amps is a great platform for the music he plays,
     

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