Detailed G12H 55Hz Comparison: Pulsonic, Scumback, Heritage

Discussion in 'Cabinets & Speakers' started by cooljuk, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. Ufoscorpion

    Ufoscorpion Well-Known Member

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    Like the idea of what you’ve done with the comparison , but none of the speakers sound good . I get what others are saying , sorry .
     
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  2. Neil Skene

    Neil Skene Well-Known Member

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    I refer to negative comments in general not just one person.
    What I'm saying is there is no position you can mic a speaker that will satisfy everyone unless you mic all possible positions which would be a monumentous task.
    There is always the option of doing these things yourself which would be helpfull and interesting.
    I don't find you annoying or childish, which would be none of my business anyway ......so there :)
     
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  3. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    unfortunately, there are no perfect tests...

    I guess it depends on what you're aiming for, but, w/o spending a lot of time, money & resources, you won't get comprehensive testing that covers all the bases.

    This one is good for what it does.
     
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  4. Kats

    Kats Member

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    It's very tricky under the OP's circumstances because having different speakers in the cab makes it difficult to know how each individual speaker actually sounds in the cab/room as well as ruling out any distant mic'ing options. So normally I would say to pick the spot(s) that gives the closest representation of that sound. In this case, your only choice is to pick a spot that is best for each individual speaker (regardless if it they are different for each speaker). Then you can draw somewhat of a conclusion as to which speaker you prefer for recording (especially if you're familiar with the recording chain), not much more. No way to choose a quad for a cab though, you could be disappointed.

    On that note, there is one mic (that I know of) that actually works dead center surprisingly well on loud amp/cabs (Sennheiser MD409). You could pull it off with that. I don't know why that is, but the balance is normally just right and the output is substantially lower than a 57 - which takes a lot of stress off the circuits down the chain.
     
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  5. cooljuk

    cooljuk Active Member

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    The goal of this was never to show how great of a guitar tone I could mix and produce that would either sound great on its own or sit in a mix. No intention of showing what speakers are better. Just showing the differences between them. That's why I used standard gear with everything miced uniform.

    This test would be completely worthless if I had miced each speaker uniquely, in what I personally thought was a good sounding spot on each one, just as it would only muddy the results for me to have included the room mic in the video. That wouldn't show the differences between the speakers. It would show the differences in micing techniques and what my room sounds like with 4 different speakers playing at once. Nothing useful.

    If you want to hear how an original Pulsonic cone G12H 55Hz speaker can sound great in a mix, turn your radio to the classic rock station and enjoy. ...and now you know how the other two compare.
     
  6. Guitar-Rocker

    Guitar-Rocker Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for taking the time for the comparisons, and for sharing. Kudos !
     
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  7. Kats

    Kats Member

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    Cooljuk, I'll leave you the last word as we're beginning to go in circles. I chose my words carefully enough so that you could understand my reasoning.
     
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  8. Neil Skene

    Neil Skene Well-Known Member

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    I will have my last word to you also.
    Each speaker was miced exactly the same.
    If the other two speakers were exactly the same as the original they would have sounded equally as good/bad but they did not.
    Weather this makes any of the speakers a good or bad sounding speaker is not the point.


    I believe we are going in circles because you misunderstood the comparison. See my explanation above.

    I explained to you that I did not think you were annoying or childish because I did not want you to feel bad (it's just not what most people here would want anyone to feel)
    Your statement above is heading to wards an insult on someones intelligence because they don't agree with your (what I believe is a) misinterpretation of the video. It's a "comparison" and they were "compared" well. Results being they don't sound the same.
     
  9. mAx___

    mAx___ Active Member

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    After hearing the speakers, to me it was very useful to also see the frequency response chart for each one. If the speakers would have been mic'ed different from each other, those charts would mean nothing.

    Anybody else clicked on the Logic timeline to make the video go back and forth instead of on the YouTube timeline? I kept doing that...:)
     
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  10. Neil Skene

    Neil Skene Well-Known Member

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    Ha, Not in this video but I've done it before :)
     
  11. Kats

    Kats Member

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    Not intended in the slightest. I left the last word (not “gave”) out of respect because I know I’m being a PITA. Hoping for him to understand my position does not mean I expect him to. We can kindly agree to disagree without assuming any ill will.
     
  12. Australian

    Australian Green Beret VIP Member

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    Whats the point of a test if its not accurate.
    None of those sound like they should.
     
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  13. Neil Skene

    Neil Skene Well-Known Member

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    It's not a test to show what they sound like.

    Both the new speakers are suppose to be "faithful re-creations" (as stated by Celestion) and he said he spoke to Scumback and got what they told him was a "copy of the same original speaker".
    He states "the old speakers are getting hard to come by". The Comparison is to see if the new ones sound the same as the old ones.
    they don't.

    If the mic is in the same position and they all get the same input (no matter what the input) The output should be the same.
    It's not the same. This comparison shows the recreations are not very accurate.
     
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  14. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Yes. The fact that all are in one 4x12 can compromise the evaluation. They will affect each other.
     
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  15. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    ju ned in isolations cabenats mang or may bes a 1x12s to test each ones, ya kno
     
  16. Kats

    Kats Member

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    Neil,

    The Scumback is a recreation of an older PVC version of the G12h. Jim just said it was his best, not his closest to a non pvc version. He also makes a non-pvc version.

    Also note that there is plenty of variation between original Pulsonics (and for that matter new speakers), that even though they may sound somewhat different - does not mean (nor does it mean) they are not a faithful recreations of each other.

    The real question should be, well how close are they?
     
  17. Kats

    Kats Member

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    This assumes that the recording are faithful representations of what the speakers sound like. Perhaps you should say “not exactly”.
     
  18. Neil Skene

    Neil Skene Well-Known Member

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    So seeing now you realise it was important to have faithful representations what does that say for your suggestion to have each speaker miced differently?
    Why do you think the recordings are not faithful representations of the sound of each speaker when he went to great trouble to ensure the microphones were placed exactly.
     
  19. Neil Skene

    Neil Skene Well-Known Member

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    One would think they would influence each other to sound more like each other.
     
  20. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    That is the case because of out of phase reactions.
    Out of phase cancels frequencies which would make them act more alike.

    Therefore there could be more difference than what we actually heard.
     
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