Detailed G12H 55Hz Comparison: Pulsonic, Scumback, Heritage

Discussion in 'Cabinets & Speakers' started by cooljuk, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Nice comparison.

    It just goes to show that you have to like what you buy or use.
    I found the Heritage and Scumback to be more lower frequency oriented on some progressions which is why I use G12H(55) with Vintage G12V.
    The old T1281 had a bit more mid bass presence.
     
  2. mAx___

    mAx___ Active Member

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    Great video test!! May I ask at what volume were you playing? I fast-forwarded to the test part at some point and may have missed that piece of info.
     
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  3. cooljuk

    cooljuk Active Member

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    Channels jumped for everything. In the cleaner parts, the bright channel was about at 2-3 and the bass channel was just up enough to come into the mix. The hotter parts have both volumes up pretty high. All the other controls were at noon.
     
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  4. Kats

    Kats Active Member

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    As I said, it sounded like they were either being mic’d on the dust caps (which it turned out it was) or...

    Also note that anything distorting before your meters like a mic or preamp could easily show a normal level on a meter (overloaded circuits can compress a signal quite heavily). I don’t think I said anything about [digital] clipping.

    Ultimately, you have to use/trust your ears.
     
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  5. shakti

    shakti Member

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    I haven't heard the video yet, but just one observation...

    You have all four speakers wired up at the same time, is that correct? Wouldn't they influence each other so the differences may be exaggerated or minimized due to that? I understand you're miking each speaker separately, but the speakers will still influence each other electrically.
     
  6. GIBSON67

    GIBSON67 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the comparison!
     
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  7. mAx___

    mAx___ Active Member

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    For the reasons you mentioned, I think it's actually a good thing that they were recorded in a 4x12 environment rather than separately. He gave the speakers the best possible configuration for the test.
    I'd love to hear a version of it where they are miked on the rim. Should be interesting to compare the differences.
     
  8. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    Yes mAx I was micing yesterday and was wondering if there is a mic to speaker placement that was considered to yield the best results.
    BP
     
  9. mAx___

    mAx___ Active Member

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    I always place the mic on or near the rim of the speakers, about 2" from the cloth and at a an angle for the sound I'm after. It always surprises me how much moving the mic a mere inch to either side affects the sound.
     
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  10. cooljuk

    cooljuk Active Member

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    At the voltages/currents running through them, I doubt it. One could argue they mechanically interfere with each other from internal cabinet reflections too but, in both cases, that's some minuscule amount.

    Running each speaker one at a time would leave the other three acting as dampers, which is not how folks run speaker cabs and would definitely interfere with the test speaker sound. It'd probably blow the single speaker for the SLP test, also. Running each speaker in a 1x12 cab would leave room for setup/placment/

    BUT, I actually did account for both electrical and mechanical interference - if you look at the inside cab photo, you'll see I ran the modern speakers in an X pattern, each one paired up with a vintage 1971 Pulsonic cone speaker with matching dates/life. So, even if someone were to argue that having them in the same cab or connected electrically interfered with them, it did so in exactly the same way and amount with both of the modern speakers, keeping things uniform and eliminating that as a factor of bias. :thumb:
     
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  11. cooljuk

    cooljuk Active Member

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    FYI - the reasons I miced the speakers on the center of the dust caps are:

    • It's the place with the most extended frequency response
    • It's the only place to exactly mic multiple speakers in the same way

    It's easy to mic the exact center of a speaker with pink noise and headphones, as it's the brightest part.
     
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  12. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    Last night I was near the rim but had the mic touching the cloth.
    I'll give it a shot with a 2 inch distance.
    Thanks.
    BP
     
  13. mAx___

    mAx___ Active Member

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    Another important factor is of course the type of mic. IME the SM57/58 didn't make the speakers any justice.
     
  14. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    Well I've got the 57 and that's all. Will have to make do.
    BP
     
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  15. tce63

    tce63 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Thx for your efforts, nice done :applause:
     
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  16. Neil Skene

    Neil Skene Well-Known Member

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    Was that dog there so no one touched the mic's?
    Excellent comparison. I like the fact you miced the centre. This gives an idea of what the speaker sounds like at its brightest, which is the starting point for me anyway when I try even a different speaker of the same type.
    All the same input and all the same mic's, Doesn't matter if the sound is flattering or not, you can hear the differences in the speakers and that's the point isn't it.
    These direct comparisons offend some as they have never heard a direct comparison of the gear they bought and just assumed it was superior, to the point of blindly defending it in a fight to the death.
    In some of the comparisons I did "experts" held off commenting until after I published what was what, then chimed in with all the "It was obvious which was which" and "I can hear these minute differences where others can't" comments.
    One could argue that now you need to go and mic all the speakers at their best position and compare again. but best for what? Also each SM57 sounds slightly different, it goes on forever. I think your method was spot on.
    I know this is a lot of work as I have done a couple of things like this here. I appreciate your effort :thumb:

    PS
    Got accused of witchcraft once editing the same way as you did here, watch out for angry mobs at night. LOL.
     
  17. MarshallDog

    MarshallDog Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    You see people who just want to push their opinions (which is fine) but to the point where they just won’t give up or argue it just to try to get under ones skin all over Forums. Must be how they get off or something. I too feel it was a great comparison and the OP put a lot of time and effort into it!
     
  18. Kats

    Kats Active Member

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    No. You can only hear the difference of what the speakers sound like at the dust cap. It says nothing about the overall tone and balance of the speaker.

    I’m sorry to be the annoying one here, and the implication that I have some sort of childish agenda is wrong. I’m a pretty new member here but have a bit of experience in these sort of things and am only trying to be honest and helpful.
     
  19. tce63

    tce63 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    You are doing just great :applause: keep up the good work, I appreciated it

    Cheers :cheers:
     
  20. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    Well where would you like the mics to be placed in order to reflect the overall tone and balance of the speaker.?
    BP
     
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