Current Supros For Jimmy Page / Led Zeppelin

Discussion in 'Other Amps' started by Trapland, May 5, 2017.

  1. Trapland

    Trapland Well-Known Member

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    I just had to share my experience on this. I've owned 2 of the modern 1624T Dual Tone and spent lots of time playing the Black Magic and Thunderbolt. Some folks have claimed all of them were the Page amp.

    I have gigged the Dual Tones in a Led Zeppelin tribute band. (I also use vintage Marshalls). Of all the modern Supros, *the Dual Tone model 1624T* sounds by FAR the most like Zeppelin to my ears. It's not even close.

    Also, that darn 1624 FEELS more like a Marshall than any non-Marshall I've ever played. It breaks up at the same input levels, and across the same frequencies as Marshalls (generally). It sounds right with a tonebender, it sounds right just cranked. It cleans up correctly with the guitar volume while still maintaining touch sensitivity.

    We know that JPP used a number of amps in the studio, and Supros early and Marshalls later were most used. To my ears they were both used from LZ2 onward. Why wouldn't he? He owned both and liked to paint with a broad palette of tones.

    Now having said all of this, I use my big vintage Marshall amps and cabs first. I also have a 1x12 Marshall 4010 combo that simulates plexi sounds fairly well until it's turned to its loudest volumes. The Supro sounds more like Led Zeppelin than the Marshall combo. There's even many examples in later Zeppelin where JPPs tone sounds more like a Supro combo than a Marshall.

    A plexi IS the Zeppelin live tone and that's my favorite guitar tone ever. But if someone put a gun to my head and said "You will play Led Zeppelin and you can only have one combo but not a Marshall." it would be the modern Supro Dual Tone every time.

    I don't care which Supro is technically the correct "Page" amp, the 1624T Dual Tone SOUNDS the most like Led Zeppelin to my ears.

    Just saying..... :2c: :)
     
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  2. liontato

    liontato Well-Known Member

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    I think Page always pushed his Supro with a echoplex in front which gives it a little more girth and warmth. Also, his live plexi was a 200 watt with KT88's which give their own flavor. It doesn't hurt that he played a real 59 LP live. His live tone is one of my favorites as well. In fact I love pretty much anything Page did. His tone was always great to my ears.
     
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  3. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    Jimmy said that the Supro amp he had, had a 15" speaker. Was that a Jensen low watt 15"? There's one in a museum claiming to be the one, but it does not correlate w/ Jimmy's own recollections...

    Not sure what speaker you are running on yours.

    He then went on to a custom HiWatt for a few years, until he got his Marshalls...
     
  4. stickyfinger

    stickyfinger Active Member

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    I spent a lot of time trying to figure this out. Reading all the post and keeping up with the current advancement in other folks research. Leon C at TGP I think nailed it. A photo with what must have been a Coronado. Basically a bigger bottle 1624. The Coronado has two input with one channel havig a cascade gain preamp circuit. Who know what channel he plaed through if that was even the amp.

    I think any Supro can get close to those tones. Mot of the circuits are pretty Supro differnet. Don't think a thunderbolt sounts right though as it was a bass amp.
     
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  5. Trapland

    Trapland Well-Known Member

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    To my ears it is the 6973 tubes that make the tone. All the 6L6 models sound more like Fenders to me, while the 6973 with the special design 12" speaker does Good Times Bad Times so close it's scary. I add a Strymon Lex for the Leslie sound on the solo, but I've also stepped in an actual Leslie 16 on more than one stage and it works great with thst amp.

    I don't think the Blck Magick sounds anything like Zeppelin. That's the one Supro is claiming to be the page amp. Funny, they used to say it about the dual,tone just 2 years ago.
     
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  6. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    Re-issue "Supro"
    is nothing remotely like a real Supro.
    The new "Supro" is completely different, different tubes, entirely different circuit.

    Just because somebody in China buys the "Supro" name....does not mean you are buying a real Supro.

    Real Supro: is a very clean, very low gain amplifier. Less gain than a Fender amp...

    A new Supro cannot sound just like Jimmy Page amp - its a completely different amp.

    Supro was made by Valco...
     
  7. stickyfinger

    stickyfinger Active Member

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    I agree with that to some extent. However I'm not really sure how much the amps differ. I know they added a few extra features. They are not using Ceramic caps if I remember and those add a element of tone to thos amps. As for what the reissues actually did to the circuit changes I don't know. Do you?
     
  8. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    Here's his HiWatt sound:



    Funny how the souncheck sounds better than the show. I heard that during the show, there was a certain added distortion - either by clipping the mic element, or the channel, that they couldn't replicate. I guess they never figured it out.

    Jimmy used a fuzz box, as well as using the EP-1 to drive the amp, as many Brit's from that time period did as well...

    The story behind the HiWatt, was that he had it custom made. There's a company called Royal Amps, that makes duplicates (as close as they could estimate) to his actual amps, & have some insight in their literature...

    http://www.royalamps.com/

    they have more info & images on their FB page:

    https://www.facebook.com/Royal-Amps-678322492232775/

    They make a replica of the HiWatt & also his MSG '73 Super Lead (TSRTS), as well as his Supro...
     
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  9. Trapland

    Trapland Well-Known Member

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    I would swear we've been here before....

    *I didn't say it was a reissue, I said modern.

    The new Supro Dual Tone is different, but the circuit is similar. The parts are obviously modern. Having played both vintage Dual Tones and modern, I'm surprised how close they are, old speaker notwithstanding. And there are several YouTube comparisons to back that up. You are correct,they aren't exactly the same, but it's remarkable how close they are.

    Nobody in China bought the Supro name that I'm aware of. And the amps ALL clearly say made in New York, USA on them. Sure small components are Chinese but so are Marshalls and Fenders USA amps.

    When you say real Supros are clean and low gain, that's pretty sweeping. Some are, others are not. The Dual Tone is NOT a clean low gain amp regardless of the decade.

    Please, play one cranked. You may be surprised. I can pretty much own any amps I like and can find to buy (except Dumble and Trainwreck,lol), and I think the Dual Tone sounds closer than most anything in production today. Now I need to get a new Tremoverb! No need to agree. :)
     
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  10. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't know if you are familiar w/ some of the longstanding Zep communities, like Royal Orleans/Presence?

    Here's some discussion, similar to the one we have on here, about these amps.:

    http://www.royal-orleans.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=44690

    IDK if that's in the public section, or not. He's always changing it's forum around. I got booted a while back during housecleaning, for inactivity. They used to have former Zep staff members on there.

    There's also other more exclusive communities, like FBO (for badgeholders only), which runs like a(n email) chain list...

    The official Led Zeppelin site seems to be full of inaccuracies, just Like Jimmy's...
     
  11. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    are you referring to this?

    New Supro Stuff
     
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  12. stickyfinger

    stickyfinger Active Member

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    Yes
     
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  13. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    It's completely different amp..with completley different design---and different tubes---

    Just like ALL Chinese "re-issues..." It's not a re-issue...just a "tube amp," with "Supro" name plate stuck on the outside!

    Fiberglass circuit board...not hand wired.

    The only thing that is "authentic" is the name plate.

    Jimmy Page:
    VERY clean Supro Amp...(no distortion, what so ever)
    Preamp with Tube Echo-Plex....to produce distortion.

    [​IMG] The 6J7 PENTODE, 8 pin, Metal Shell, preamp tube. THIS is the REAL tube.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  14. wakjob

    wakjob Well-Known Member

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    I thought the new Supro amps were owned and built by the guy whom owns Pigtronix pedals?

    And what a lot of people fail to realize, is that China will build anything, at any level of quality, at any price point.

    They have the capability to build over the top high end electronics, and do. It's just not what most contracts with them are for.

    Is this the case with new Supro?
    IDK, I haven't opened one up yet to inspect.

    I'm just going to assume that some of the amp or parts (prefab circuitboards) are from China, and assembled in the USA.
     
  15. stickyfinger

    stickyfinger Active Member

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    Sem to be some misinformation a few posts above.

    These are made in USA last I knew.

    Handwired vs PCB. Has no effect on tone.

    They use 6973 / 6l6 power valve and 12ax7. That's a pretty common Supro setup.

    I bet the circuits are pretty flippin close to the originals. Some tweaks for sure as they usually mention the big changes.

    Reading the dual tone description it looks like they agree with the research Leon C had discovered about the Coronando.
     
  16. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    "...They use 6973 / 6l6 power valve and 12ax7. That's a pretty common Supro setup."

    I have never seen any real Supro amp with that setup.

    "...Handwired vs PCB. Has no effect on tone..."

    Tell THAT to all the Supro Collectors.:lol::lol::lol: They will laugh you off the planet.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  17. Gunner64

    Gunner64 Well-Known Member

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    My old 62 valverb had 3 6eu7s, 3 6973s, ( one for verb) and a 5y3gt rectifier. Awesome amp. One of my biggest gear regrets parting with that.
     
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  18. wakjob

    wakjob Well-Known Member

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    I'll take the modern. Screw that rats nest P-to-P crap.

    Modern looks like a well built amp with some quality components.
     
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  19. ibmorjamn

    ibmorjamn Well-Known Member

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    Sweet tone !

    And
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  20. stickyfinger

    stickyfinger Active Member

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    LOL go download any vintage Supro schematics.
    The earliest versions from the 50s were commonly 6sl7's, 6v6, 6l6 and common rectifier tubes. Bit later they got heavily into 6973 12ax7's among the tubes listed above..

    If you think tone is in the Tagstrips you have lost the very tiny tiny amount of creditability you still have left on this forum..
     
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