Any cons to cascading a 1976 2204?

Discussion in 'The Workbench' started by emanlooc, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. demonufo

    demonufo New Member

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    So you don't consider offering a link for a guide to do a full conversion from early circuit to late circuit 2204 contributing in any way then?
    Or offering an opinion on the early version of the 2204? (which I always considered to have neither appealing factors of either the 1987 or the cascaded 2204 - dull city)

    There are ways to improve such as lowering the resistor across the plates on v2 as you suggested and increasing plate resistors elsewhere, but it still doesn't do anywhere near enough to improve the tone of these IMO.

    The best way around it is to do the full cascade. Which gives you better tonal range on both hi and lo inputs.


    Moreover, if we'd bother to delve in a little deeper, from pictures of the original posters amp on other threads, it's obvious that his amp is already quite heavily modded around the inputs, and quite possibly contributing to the tone issues.


    But of course, nobody's bothered to ask about whether or not it's modded. However, it does help to offer this information when asking questions about one's amp.
     
  2. emanlooc

    emanlooc New Member

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    The amp has been modded (before I owned it), but when the guy at Sweetwater installed the new transformer, he told me they were good tone and reliability mods and nothing really major. I've attached the updated schematic he made for me. There were three .022 that are now .1 near the PI, a 220k where a 330k used to be at V2, and the big 470k note at V2. Do you guys have any idea as to what these mods are doing to the original tone?
     

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  3. demonufo

    demonufo New Member

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    Well the 220K is cutting down the gain a little (330K generates far too much in that position and isn't doing the tone ANY favours).
    The 470K/470pF is a treble peaking circuit, and the .1's are giving more bass in the PI, kind've like a superbass type thang.

    Not the way I'd do things, but I guess some guys roll that way.


    I saw more than that going on in your pics though.
     
  4. MajorNut1967

    MajorNut1967 New Member

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  5. demonufo

    demonufo New Member

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    Okay Mr Stroppy,
    Being new has absolutely arse all to do with it. I've been over on Metro for a fair few years, and tended to avoid this place because it appeared to have more than it's fair share of jackasses compared with the more pipe and slippers metroamp forum and 18watt.com.
    The only reason I posted a link is because Steve has already done all the work, and it saves a whole lot of time. If that's already been done, I'm fu$$ed if I'm going to type out a 10 page thread going through every stage of it. What would be the point?

    As for past work, I spend nearly 20 years in the aircraft industry (CSE aviation in Oxford, sadly closed down in 2007), starting off in an electrical component workshop and a few years later moving on to avionics and radionics. Not that it really matters, or makes a whole lot of difference to whether anybody's experience within valve amplifiers is valid or not.

    As for whether or not I've designed and built an amp from scratch or not, why the hell is this relevant? We're talking about 2204's here, which I am well versed with. Outside of my comfort zone of 2203/2204/1987/1959 my knowledge is pretty much limited to troubleshooting I'll fully admit, but then I'm never going to claim otherwise, nor have I done as yet, that I'm aware of.

    I've never claimed to be an "all knowing and well experienced amp technician and builder", just a guy who has built several 2204's and messed about with most of the known mods, and done a lot of experimenting with values. I can't be arsed to mess about with other amps (other than the odd repair) since I, for me, have found the amp that works, for me. Not making any attempts to "prove myself" either, simply got on the defensive from somebody who told me to "engage brain before typing". As for impressing people, well quite frankly I could care a whole lot less what people thing, I'm just trying to help save people time to achieve. I still firmly believe that this particular circuit is a dead horse, and there's no point flogging it, but then this isn't really about the thread any more is it, it's about you taking offence to me, and apparently so it would seem, re-affirm your authority.

    I'm fully aware of other technicians that are on this site, particularly Jon and Joey who are (were) regular posters over at metroamp too, and I haven't had any major disagreements with either as yet.
    I do however even see Jon get pulled up on certain things by Joey at times so it's not something that's limited to the inexperienced.
    But then I've not actually stated anything incorrect myself as yet either, so I don't really see your point.

    I AM familiar with 2204's and couldn't really care less what you think, but I will reaffirm that your post DID sound rather confusing and somewhat incorrect with regards to the "from 1976 to 1983 that was how it was done" statement.

    As for "plagiarising other peoples mods" WTF?
    Nobody's plagiarising anybodys mods. Steve's link for the conversion is simply a guide for turning one Marshall style of circuit into another Marshall style of circuit. Bone stock. Nobody's mods involved.

    Which brings me to the point that in several years of messing about with amps, I've not yet seen anything truly original, that hasn't been hinted at by somebody else. FF's sake, Marshall's ripped off Fender, Fender ripped off Western Electric, we're not exactly talking new technology here, and it's a very rare occurrence that anybody comes out with something TRULY groundbreaking. "Plagiarising off the internet", really. Get over yerself.

    I'll be the first to admit, that I only actually came here in the first place to link to a Marshall 4104 that I have for sale, but thought I'd do the decent thing and offer some help and advice along the way.

    Oh, and as for humble, I don't do humble. I could care less for that too.



    It seems to be like a couple of "experienced" techs need to climb down off their high horse, and wind their necks in a little.:rolleyes:
     
  6. MajorNut1967

    MajorNut1967 New Member

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    You just validated all Point Proven and you did it all by yourself!
     
  7. demonufo

    demonufo New Member

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    Except I'm not an experienced amp tech and don't claim to be. No point you trying to turn an argument round if it's going to fall flat on it's arse.:)

    It still remains that you were rude, and I simply defended myself. Perhaps I might have gotten a little "mouthy" but quite frankly your tirade is unjustified and doesn't really seem to have much basis, just a rather badly thought out attempt at condescension.
    You can try and put me down all you like, and even attempt to make me sound stupid if you like, I'm certainly not going to get bent out of shape about it. Nor am I going to go away, just because an "internet bully" thinks he knows best.

    Life's too short, there are more productive things to be doing than simply picking on people. Perhaps you could spend your time more effectively, by stopping people from giving bad/dangerous advice (which seems to be around in abundance), rather than trying to call people out.

    Oh well, at least the majority of people here seem to be very welcoming from what I have found so far.

    Anyways, this thread has gotten WAAAAY off track, and I have rather a full inbox to read through.
     
  8. demonufo

    demonufo New Member

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    Perhaps you should check yourself in some other threads then, hypocrite!:rolleyes:
     
  9. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

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    Sooo.. have we decided who's is bigger yet or should I get some more popcorn??
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Matthews Guitars

    Matthews Guitars Well-Known Member

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    have nothing to contribute except that my 1977 2203 sounds like pretty much the entire AC/DC discography the moment the master volume reaches 3. Which is perfect, that's been the tone I've been seeking! It's a bit loud but quite tolerable and the tone just makes me grin from ear to ear. It's not super high gain, but there's enough grind there for any normal rock and roll loving guitarist. (Drop-tuned modern knothead metal lovers excepted...but they're not normal.)
     
    Relic61 and GIBSON67 like this.
  11. john hammond

    john hammond Well-Known Member

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    - Amen. I think those .022 green phillips have a big part in that.( have you checked to see if your 2203 has them?)
    my 77 sounds pretty much like the entire ac/dc catalogue also.
     

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