Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Cabinets & Speakers' started by Emtbreid, Aug 19, 2019.
Yeah, sounded good here too.
Obliged. Think I finally solved the issue I was having.... and camera placement.
If you’re just playing at home, placing your combo on the floor or putting it on an amp stand would surely be a matter of personal preference. It is true that more low end is achieved by setting the cabinet on the floor, but the result is just as varied as the rooms are. Carpet? Bare floor? Big difference. And you are hearing the acoustic properties of that room whether it’s on a stand or on the floor.
- (all the comments that follow assume that you are or wish to be a professional guitar player, and you’re reading this post about amp on a stand vs amp on the floor because you’re interested in controlling the tone you work so hard to achieve) -
Trying to quantify your actual tone and volume when you’re on stage is going to be so influenced by what you are hearing OTHER than your guitar, it’s almost pointless. The position of your amp is critical if you want to hear what is really coming from your rig. If you are using a combo amp, it’s most likely going to need a mic to be heard in the audience mix. Placing it on the floor behind you will result in you adding treble and volume to make up for the fact that your ears are on the sides of your head rather than the back of your knees. Placing it on a stand and tilting it back a bit gives you a better idea of what is coming out of your speaker. But this focuses the beam of sound coming from your speaker straight at the vocal mics. Not good. So put a baffle of some kind in front of the speaker so your sound isn’t just blowing off the stage. Or try placing it on the floor in front of you, and pointed at your face. Now you are really hearing what is actually coming out of that speaker. That’s why vocal monitors are on the floor in front of you: so you hear them accurately.
The best thing I ever did for my peace of mind on stage and my desire to know that other people hear what I hear from my guitar was to set my entire rig up at home, dial it all in (pedals, amp and all), then carefully remove all of the knobs from the pedals and amp. I put them all back either pointing at 12 o’clock for the knobs that don’t have numbers, or at zero for the ones that are numbered. This way I can easily know the tone the mic is picking up is the tone I want, even if the room is fooling my ears.
Ask any competent sound technician what the biggest problem is with live sound in a confined space, like a club or a theater, and it will be stage volume. Whether you are trying to be a part of the rhythm section, or the guitarist in a trio, your volume has to be in the sound tech’s hands. That means you have to figure out how to achieve your intended tone even when you can’t really hear the nuances of your amp on stage. And the comments about “just bring a half stack and you won’t have to deal with any of this“ is not the answer. More power and more speakers are only going to make you less popular both on stage and with the sound tech. The guitar will end up pulled all the way out of the mix, and your sound in the room will be shrill and unpleasant because your volume is too loud, and your tone just turns into muddy mids and highs as it bounces around the room.
I play through a Vox AC 15 HW, and I place it on a stand (an On Stage RS7000 Tilt back stand), put my own mic on it (EV ND 408), and place a baffle in front of the cabinet to stop the speaker from projecting off stage. I ask for a little bit of the guitar in the floor monitor in front of me to make up for the presence that I’ve lost because of the baffle, and trust the sound tech to put me in the mix. I can turn my 15 W amp up to where it is starting to cook, and the baffle keeps my volume off the stage in check.
Its kind of like the difference between live performance and studio recording. Those are two completely different environments, calling for different approaches from you, the guitarist. Hearing your guitar through a set of headphones, as part of a mix, takes getting used to. It’s not the same as playing live in a room with the whole band. Likewise, containing your volume on stage so you can be mixed into the music your audience is hearing takes some work and adjustment on your part. But it is better than just turning it up until you like it from where you stand, because you’ll probably be the only one who likes it that way.
My Mini Jubilee amp stand is a 2 x 12 stack
Thank you for taking the time to write that up, right now I’m in home but hopefully at some point I’ll play out.
I think it’s important to share real-world experience. I’ve been playing professionally for many decades, and although tone has been a quest, I’ve also learned that “tone” is subjective. Unless it’s painful, nobody else cares as much as you do. But “too loud” is a problem if you’re supposed to be part of a band. I think having a stand is a big help at keeping the volume reasonable because your speaker is not firing at your ankles.
I’ll have to look into a different stand.... no issues with volume right now. Had it on a stand for several months and something just didn’t sound right. Almost like it was tilted too far back.
I'm using an original DSL201 on stage, stacked on it's flight case and miked up. And trust me, as long as the drummer isn't in Hulk Smash mode and your tone doesn't has to be completely clean it is more then loud enough. And a tiny bit of end valve crunch is a heavenly sound
And you have to remember, when miked up, it's close up on the cloth, so the low end you get on the floor won't get picked up by the microphone.
As per @Kinkless Tetrode I have to agree. I use a standback amp stand live all the time. The amp is still touching the floor leading to better low end and is aimed up at your head where your ears are. Simple sturdy and compact. Inexpensive too.
Yeah, this stand I have goes up pretty high, and is tilted back a ways. I’ll have to look into this one. I am enjoying my sound on the floor atm.
Ive got a nice folding stand made by Josh at Atlas Amp Stands. Its a gorgeous piece of work, in black-laquered hardwood.
It was designed around my DSL401, but also taking into account a Vintage Modern combo, which was still on my bucket-list at the time.
Set with a wall behind it, it makes the tone very clear. But you have to dodge that treble-beam if its pointing right up at you!
Man, that looks awesome. They look perfect, but if I’m reading right that stand costs as much as my amp did...
Your recorded sound does not have excessive / much bass, this is probably due to the placement of the recording device and it's characteristics with respect to where you stand in the room. The room size influences the sound so try standing in different places within the room as reflections cause an increase in amplitude and also a decrease in amplitude depending where you stand.
Moving the amp away from the wall or the floor reduces bass, move it into a corner will increase the bass and open back cabs complicate matters more (looser low end and more high end), so experiment with placement for best results.
Adding a second speaker will increase the sound level by 3dB (you need to consider speaker efficiency and impedance, place the second speaker no more than a 1/4 to a 1/2 wavelength apart to reinforce the sound and reduce phase cancellation for frequencies below 500Hz). This speaker coupling will increase the bass.
Adding a second identical speaker will increase the sound level by 3dB if it is amplified separately, but if it is plugged into a parallel speaker jack on the amp it will take only half of the wattage (and the same with the other speaker). This will amount to a cancelling out of the expected 3 dB increase.
The doubling of cone area (+3 dB) is cancelled out by the halving of wattage at each cone (-3 dB).
The ultimate cheap tilted amp on-the-floor might be to use a couple of those small rubber door wedges to experiment with a small tilt (and some sort of fail-safe behind the amp). It might not be too (literally) in-your-face then?
Yeah, I’ve considered that. I did change out the power tubes the other night and that and changing out V1 preamp for a tung sol has made things better.
If speakers can’t be up near your ears, they should be pointed that way. I don’t have a stand, per se, but you can see in my avatar my Marshall setup and its an angled 1x12. I picked that specifically to have it point towards my ears, and for me, it gives me so much more detail, especially on the treble. I like a warm to fuzzy tone so I’m not a guy searching for more treble, but I still want the definition and the clarity, even more important when you have your amp dimed, and a tilted speaker really helps. What I really like about this cab (Mojotone slammins mini) is that while the speaker points up, the cab sits flat on the floor, and I think that solves a lot of the issues with your bass fading when your cabinet is tilted or up on a table or something. Hope this helps!
Note: if you like the idea, I got mine with the tolex and grill that I wanted for $260 shipped (on sale) and I spent another $30 to have the option to make it closed or open back. Then I just threw in a greenback because what else would you pair with a “plexi”?
This thread has just been brought back from the dead in Cabs & Speakers section:
Take a listen to the video I posted just yesterday... tell me what you think. Changed power tubes and one preamp tube, and I’m running a bit more bass.... finally getting it to sound good. Last night, I stuck a tape measure under the front to tilt it back some, and it works provides you are standing back some.. I will go check out that thread now.
Is that just a phone cam mic or are you using something else. The sound quality is really good.
Nice chops and a great tone!