2019 Les Pauls, Have We Been Tricked?

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by KISS NATION, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. KISS NATION

    KISS NATION Active Member

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    I was led to believe that there wasn't going to be a standard or traditional Les Paul for 2019.

    But if you think about it there is. All Gibson have done is changed the name. The new traditional is essentially the new standard 50s and the new standard is the standard 60s.

    The only difference with the new 60s standard compared to older standards is the lack of locking tuners, no locking bridge and tailpiece and no push/pull tapping/phasing pots. It's still a case of one has a 50s neck and the other has a 60s neck.

    Everyone made a big deal that the price of the new standard (now called a 60s standard) had come down (only by £100) for the first time in years. Look at it the other way and you realize that the price of the traditional (now called the 50s standard) has increased by £500.

    What does everyone else think?
     

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  2. Matthews Guitars

    Matthews Guitars Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, companies that made classic products that everybody wants should continue to make them in their classic form as standard products that are always in the catalog and are never changed.

    Gibson should have always offered a Les Paul Standard and a Les Paul Custom and an SG Standard and an SG custom, etc, that never changed in specifications,
    and could be ordered at any time. Fender should have done the same.

    At any given moment during normal business hours, a person should be able to walk into his local music store and order a new Les Paul Standard (if they're a Gibson dealer) sight unseen and know that when it arrives from the factory, it'll be just exactly what he expects it to be. A Les Paul Standard in the finish he ordered. Made correctly, set up well, ready to gig that very day. And without paying a premium price for it.

    Those models that define the core lineup of Gibson's history should be in stock and ready to ship, any day and every day, for a reasonable price.
     
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  3. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    Start the reactor... Free Mars!
    If they took out those silly push pull phasing pots, I would be in favor of that.
     
  4. KISS NATION

    KISS NATION Active Member

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    I know. Who in their right mind wants a Les Paul that sounds like a Strat? I have my Strat for that.
    I must say that I do like the locking tuners, on any guitar not just Les Pauls. But the locking bridge and tailpiece was something I just couldn't get my head round. They are supported/held in place by two tiny allen screws rather than the large posts, which does affect tone transfer as I discovered when I changed my 2016 standard for a none locking bridge and tailpiece. Plus it makes it more difficult to remove the bridge and tailpiece for cleaning purposes.
    As Matthews said, why not continue to make each model of Les Paul how it was made originally, but also with the option to buy a guitar with all the new modern tech on it if you so please. I'm not talking about the NOS or VOS guitars that they charge £6000 for either. I mean make the guitars with new machines and modern materials but keep the specs as close to the originals as possible.
     
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  5. axe4me

    axe4me Well-Known Member

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    Like all companies, Gibson needs to keep interest and improved sales on current product.

    In making a Les Paul more versatile, by having a split coil/series/parallel/out of phase option, gives the model a difference in motivating sales.

    It's the same idea of putting a humbucker in a Strat.

    More options should stimulate sales.

    It's the business.

    Hey, I'm kinda intrigued by having a gold foil p/u or a Gretsch style p/u in a Strat or a P 90 in the neck of a Fano SP6.

    An SP6 is a company version of morphing a Telecaster with a Les Paul Special with addtional pick up choices.

    It's all to get your money.

    I'm interested in a Epiphone Old Glory.

    Hell, I have a 1956 Gibson Les Paul Junior and a pair of 1982 Gibson Les Paul Customs.

    Do I need another guitar or another guitar that's a morph of a LP Junior with a LP Custom?

    The market has me in their tractor beams.:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  6. bad565ss

    bad565ss Well-Known Member

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    Gibson simply returned the Les Paul Standard line to pre 2008 specs. The exception is the Modern series which in theory will be the test bed for innovations.
    The list price for the Original Series is now $2499, a reduction from $2799 for the old Traditional line. The Gold Top P90 50s model is a nice addition also listed at $2499.
    I'm not sure how anybody could consider these changes negative frankly.
    They have also tweaked the single cut Junior
    to be closer to the original and continue the
    SG Junior. If they could see a way to building a "authentic" double cut Junior in the Original series in the $1500 range........
     
  7. KISS NATION

    KISS NATION Active Member

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    My point is that if you look at the specs, the Les Paul standard with a none locking bridge tailpiece and tuners and no push/pull controls is now called the Les Paul Standard 60s. The new Traditional with different pickups and a fatter 50s neck is now called the Les Paul Standard 50s. pretty much the same guitar now both selling for £2000 in the UK. In reality the new standard is £100 cheaper and the new Traditional is £500 more expensive for what is essentially the same guitar with a slightly thicker neck.
    Gibson can call them standard 50s or 60s all they want, but what they have essentially released is a new more original spec standard and a new traditional with a new name.
    In essence Gibson have not released two new Standards, they have released two new Traditionals which they are calling Standards so they can charge more money for them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  8. ricksdisconnected

    ricksdisconnected Well-Known Member

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  9. bad565ss

    bad565ss Well-Known Member

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    The price of the Traditional was $2799 list.
    It's now $2499.
     
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  10. KISS NATION

    KISS NATION Active Member

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    From what I can tell, the 2019 traditional has the same spec as the new 2019 standard 50s.
    The only difference is that in the UK, the new traditional is £1800 and the new standard 50s is £2000.
    So Gibson really have tricked us. Making us pay an extra £200 for a trus rod cover that says standard instead of traditional.
    Or have I got that wrong?
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  11. Michael Roe

    Michael Roe Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what you are talking about? I have a 2019 Traditional which was made right before the "2019" new line. My traditional was $2799 and the new Standard is $2499.
    So, the new standards are cheaper not more expensive. Am I missing something here?
     
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  12. Michael Roe

    Michael Roe Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I guess I should say that some of the older models were discounted because of the new cheaper line.
     
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  13. bad565ss

    bad565ss Well-Known Member

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    No idea what's up in the U.K.
    In the U.S. it is just what I said.
    No one is forcing any one to spend a single nickel in either case. Buy what you want or don't.
     
  14. Michael Roe

    Michael Roe Well-Known Member

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    Concerning the new Gibson line: I think the only thing they did wrong was put the "Classic" under the "Modern" collection. I think that guitar should have just been under the "Classic" line to make it not as confusing. They could have added the "Studio" line under that "Classic Collection" as well.
     
  15. axe4me

    axe4me Well-Known Member

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    How does the limited edition Signature T fall into the equation?



    I have one.:applause:
     
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  16. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    This is not about you!:rolleyes::hug:
    This is about Gibson tricking KISS NATION ! :shock:
    BP
     
  17. KISS NATION

    KISS NATION Active Member

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    https://www.andertons.co.uk/gibson-...heritage-cherry-sunburst-lptd19hsnh1190000362
    https://www.andertons.co.uk/gibson-les-paul-standard-50s-heritage-cherry-sunburst-plps500hsnh1-1

    Look at the spec of these two guitars, the new 2019 traditional and the new 2019 standard 50s.
    My mistake and you are right that the traditional was more expensive than the standard, this shows the reduced price.
    But still, the new 2019 traditional weighs 9lbs and costs £2300. The new 2019 standard 50s weighs 9.3lbs and has exactly the same spec, but costs £2000. Any idea why?
    This is the first time I remember the traditional and the standard having the same spec but the traditional costs more.
     
  18. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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  19. bad565ss

    bad565ss Well-Known Member

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    The Traditional was already on the market before the new series of guitars hit the market under the new management. That is the reason for the model overlap. The Traditional will no longer exist going forward.
    It's not a case of trickery. Simply timing of decisions and time to market for new models.
     
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  20. WellBurnTheSky

    WellBurnTheSky Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, choosing to set the 50s and 60s Std specs in stone, so they have a base line of models that stays consistent and is in line with what most players looking for a LP want makes a lot of sense to me.
    Looks like they've accepted the fact that they're a "legacy" brand and that, no matter how they want to innovate, they need to have their bases covered. They still have a range on which they can get crazy with more "modern" specs and chase the hipper brands.
    I'd actually like Fender to come back to offering an American Standard model, their branding and range is kinda confusing right now. While Gibson's new line is super clear, if you want old-school versions of the LP (which, let's face it, is what you mostly expect from them), you have the choice of either the chunky neck and A2 pickups of slimmer neck and hotter pickups. Much clearer than the old Standard/Traditional/90s Classic spread they formerly had.
     
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