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Old 10-01-2009, 04:48 PM   #1
MartyStrat54
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Everything and Anything About Speakers

Hello. This is another catch all thread about speakers. I have a lot of experience with all sorts of speakers. This thread may work and it may dive, but at least I will know that I've tried.

This thread is about sharing info on how all guitar/bass speakers sound, whether they be Celestion, Eminence, Weber, Tone Tubby, etc.

Not all Celestions sound that good, especially by themselves. This is the latest trend in the speaker business, mating two different sounding speakers together. Eminence is now selling a variety of Tone Packs. These can be seen at Guitar Center and Musician's Friend.

Here are some of my speakers mods. I have installed an Eminence Red Fang alnico speaker in one of my DSL401. The other 401 has a JBL D123 in it.

In one ot my 602's, I have two Altec 417's and in the other 602, I have two JBL D123's.

The JBL's are 1961 models and the 417 is from 1972. Here are some pics.


Front View of JBL D123 (12-inch):
[IMG]http://i615.*******************************************D123b.jpg[/IMG]

Back View of JBL D123 (12-inch):
[IMG]http://i615.*******************************************D123a.jpg[/IMG]

Back View of Altec 417-8H (12-inch)
[IMG]http://i615.*******************************************4178H.jpg[/IMG]

Back View of Eminence Man 'O War speakers (12-inch) in TSL122:
[IMG]http://i615.*******************************************HPIM0689.jpg[/IMG]

Web link with sound clips for Eminence Red Fang (12-inch):

Eminence - The Art and Science of Sound

Front View on Eminence Red Fang (12-inch):
[IMG]http://i615.*******************************************FRTRedFang.jpg[/IMG]

As you can tell, I like a lot of different speakers. I was a shop manager for a large Phoenix Pro Audio store and we repaired all the top brands of speakers and speaker cabinets.

Right now, I am experimenting with some Eminence Delta Pro 12A's. These are actually mid PA drivers, but they make killer guitar or bass speakers. They are good down to 52Hz and start to roll off at around 4.5K. They are a neutral speaker and do not add any coloration to the amp. I'm finding that with a Marshall head like a TSL100, this is a good thing. The amp is more articulate and ballsy on its own. These speakers trim out some of the harshness associated with these amps.


Web link for info on Eminence Delta Pro 12A (12-inch):
Eminence - The Art and Science of Sound

Please add your comments about your favorite speaker. I would really like to meet some members who have a background in old JBL and Altec speakers, as well as Utah, Heppner and others.

More to come as I get situated.
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Old 10-01-2009, 06:32 PM   #2
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Oh I'm looking forward to this thread. Speakers are a big part of our sounds. I haven't tried any Eminence yet just Celestions/Warehouse. I've used V30's/Veteran 30's, H30's, Greenbacks and K100's. Right now I am using a 412 of Greenbacks.

I'm up for comparisons and all around info on these other offerings like Eminence, Weber Blues...whatever guys are using or used.

About time for a thread like this!
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Where the hell is dirty ole Joe at?
Its "Boo-tique" fellas cause that price scares the tone out of my fingers...
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Old 10-01-2009, 07:27 PM   #3
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Thanks, Joe. I am going to try to obtain as many digital clips as I can.

Now about the JBL D123's. These speakers came out in the Fifties and at some point in the late Sixties the frame was modified to allow for front or rear mount. The later version is finished in a black, crinkle powder coat paint. The last D123 left the factory in the early 70's.

The D123 has been called the best guitar speaker. Harvey Gerst is a long time JBL engineer. He designed the D123. He and several other JBL designers say that it covers music that wasn't even around when the speaker was invented.

This speaker is capable of some very tight bottom end, especially in a sealed or ported cabinet. In the right cabinet, you can get down to 35 Hz. It is a full range speaker and it goes to 12KHz. If you use a lot of FX and play with a lot of harmonics, you should try this speaker. It works well for blues, rock, hard rock and nu-metal.

If you looked at the photo, you can see the workmanship that went into these speakers. I have nine of these and also six recone kits in case I find a frame cheap on EBAY. These use special flat wound voice coils that have no air gap. Therefore, you get more wire in the gap. That is why these speakers are a hit with small tube Hi Fi's. The 123 is rated at 99dB with 1 watt. Not bad for a full range speaker.

Their only drawback is power handling. They have changed this several times before settling on 50 watts.

Now, the Altec 417 comes in many versions. I also have two of these with a "Bell" back. They are the "Version I" model. These are rated at 75 watts and the 417-8H is rated at 100 watts. These are the speakers that Carlos Santana used in his early Mesa Boogie amps. Many older Boogies are equipped with Altecs. A Boogie combo with two of these is one heavy sucker.

The 417 is another great American speaker. It doesn't have the full range of the D123, but it easily covers the guitar spectrum. These are getting harder and harder to find, because they didn't sell as heavy as the JBL speakers. (Remember, JBL had a deal with Fender. All JBL's equipped in a Fender amp were painted orange.)

I can say that the 417 is a truly wonderful speaker. If you can ever find a pair, they make a killer 212 cab. Randy Rhoads used the 417 exclusively in his 4 by 12 cabinets. If you liked his sound, now you know what kind of speakers he was running.

Next, I'll break down some of the Eminence speakers.
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:44 PM   #4
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Before doing the Eminence, here is a link to a thread by GTRMAN. He provides some nice testing on Celestion speakers.

http://www.marshallforum.com/cabinet...-cabinets.html
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:16 PM   #5
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

That was cool. JSX cab stood out to me.
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Where the hell is dirty ole Joe at?
Its "Boo-tique" fellas cause that price scares the tone out of my fingers...
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:21 PM   #6
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Okay. Eminence is the largest speaker company in the world. They make all sorts of speakers including custom order. For guitar, they have two series, one is called "The Patriot" and the other is called "The Redcoat." They also have another line that contains many of their favorite speakers that they have made over the years.

If you mess around with these speakers, you will find that some of the Redcoats sound really close to certain Celestion speakers. In fact, the entire Redcoat series is aimed at being "British" flavored. Some of the more popular are the Man 'O War, the Tonespotter and the Wizard. The Red Fang is also a Redcoat speaker, but it is a special alnico speaker and has low power handling. It is perfect for a 40 watt amp.

The Wizard is an extremely sensitive speaker. One watt cuts about 103dB. If you put four of these in a 4 x 12 cab...I hope you like it loud. The Wizard is very articulate, but with a hint of grit. Nice sustain and exceptionally good tight bottom. It is a cross between the Private Jack and The Governor.

The Tonespotter is very smooth and warm with a fat bottom and highs that cut through the mix. Warm and thick overtones.

The Man 'O War has a large mid hump in it's frequency response. A proven and revered sound, very loud and responsive/articulate in every register. Chunky and solid sound with a little top end sparkle.


I'm still looking for sound clips for the Redcoat series. Here are the sound clips for the Patriot series.

Eminence - The Art and Science of Sound

Here is the complete info on the Patriot and Redcoat series.

http://www.eminence.com/pdf/tone_guide.pdf

If you have a thread with sound clips or some other speaker related info, would you please include your link when you post.
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Old 10-01-2009, 11:32 PM   #7
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

I like the sounds of that Rajin Cajun. Pretty cool...
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Where the hell is dirty ole Joe at?
Its "Boo-tique" fellas cause that price scares the tone out of my fingers...
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Old 10-01-2009, 11:40 PM   #8
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyStrat54 View Post
Back View of Eminence Man 'O War speakers (12-inch) in TSL122:
[IMG]http://i615.*******************************************HPIM0689.jpg[/IMG]



More to come as I get situated.
Hey look Marty's power tubes have Condoms!
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Old 10-01-2009, 11:49 PM   #9
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

HAHHAHAHHA.

How do you like those speakers Marty?
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Old 10-01-2009, 11:51 PM   #10
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Whadda you expect from a couple Man o War vibrators work'n them...

You don't want premature microfonation!
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Originally Posted by Rockin_Lisa View Post

Where the hell is dirty ole Joe at?
Its "Boo-tique" fellas cause that price scares the tone out of my fingers...
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Old 10-01-2009, 11:58 PM   #11
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

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Originally Posted by solarburndsl50 View Post
whadda you expect from a couple man o war vibrators work'n them...

You don't want premature microfonation!

hee hee rofl!
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Old 10-01-2009, 11:58 PM   #12
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Post re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

My test of Celestion Speakers:

The Vintage 30 speaker is like a Greenback on steroids; nice warm vintage tone, but also a loud electrifying ejection of air flow.



The G12T-75 is great for the classic Marshall tone and found in many of the Marshall made Cabinets. They can sound very scooped with high end, but stay clean and don't break up like the Vintage 30.



Hint! Mix for best of both worlds! (Editors choice!)

Rock on my little tone searching demons!
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Old 10-02-2009, 12:57 AM   #13
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

BTW, why the hell isn't this in the speaker section? lol.
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Old 10-02-2009, 11:09 AM   #14
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

I use two 4x12's loaded with Celestion G12C-25 Greenbacks with my Metroamp, and they're just sweet speakers. Midsy, creamy, not too boomy, and the treble isn't harsh. They don't have the tight bottom end of a 75, but I don't need it. That's what bass players are for!

In my AC30 I have a couple of honest Celestion Blues. Again, awesome speakers! Chimey top end, smooth mids, but like the greens, not heavy in the bass. In fact, with that AC30 driving them, they can get a little flubby at high volumes. Just awesome for that Vox tone, and if I stick that AC30 on one of the 4x12's, it the best of both worlds!

In my Fender I actually have some el-cheapo Jensen MOD 10-35's, and I have to admit, I was a skeptic at first. Surprisingly, they've grown on me, and I rather like the tone they produce. Very bass-heavy Fender-esque when not driven, which is awesome for some of that cowboy ****, but if you get that Super Reverb cranked up to the sky, the get a little of that British bite on 'em. Very cool speakers, and surprisingly cheap.

In my 2x12 cab I have the original Vox-branded Wharfedales in there. They're basically a Greenback G12H clone, and actually sound pretty damn good. I replaced the G12T-75's that were in there with 'em, and the G12T's found their way quickly onto Craigslist.

As far as G12T's go, I actually like the older, 80's ones. They sound much sweeter and heavier than the modern versions. I had some 1984 75's in my old JCM 800 combo, they were actually pretty bad ass sounding. The '97 75's in my 2x12... crap. That's why I sold 'em.

My pop plays an '87 JCM 800 on matching '87 A&B cabs. The bottom is loaded with 75's, the top loaded with 65's, and both cabinets are bad ass. His bottom end is seriously tight out of that B cab, and the treble and bite from the 65's up top is awesome.
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Old 10-02-2009, 12:49 PM   #15
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Hellatone - Avatar takes Celestions and breaks them in, rebrands them, and sends them on their way. They sound great out of the box (they are Celestions) and you do not have to wait until they are broken in to get the sound you are looking for out of them.

I have used different Weber speakers in different amps, but I don't know if they are going to stay in business now that Ted is gone. RIP Ted, a great guy to deal with.
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Old 10-02-2009, 05:29 PM   #16
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinr0ll View Post
BTW, why the hell isn't this in the speaker section? lol.
Because "Speakers and Cabinets" is about impedance problems, wiring and stuff like that. I don't want to have to do impedance charts and tell someone that two 16 ohm speakers in parallel is 8 ohms.

No, this is about tone. The different tones you get from speakers. If the thread is successful, it won't matter what category it is in.

Anyway, we are dealing with the tone of speakers, not speaker problems.
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Old 10-02-2009, 05:36 PM   #17
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by bro blue View Post
Hellatone - Avatar takes Celestions and breaks them in, rebrands them, and sends them on their way. They sound great out of the box (they are Celestions) and you do not have to wait until they are broken in to get the sound you are looking for out of them.

I have used different Weber speakers in different amps, but I don't know if they are going to stay in business now that Ted is gone. RIP Ted, a great guy to deal with.
I have several buddies in the KC area that love their Hellatone speakers. I would love to get some sound clips on them and see how they sound straight up to the same Celestion.

Weber is/was very small and it is tough to compete against Eminence. I hope that they are able to continue making the Weber speakers. I got to hear a pair last weekend with a Twister F3 head and they were dynamite. The F3 is a single channel amp so you turn the volume down for your clean and then rip the volume knob for your lead. The Weber's were nice and clear when the guitar was turned down. However, they had some nice breakup when the amp was slammed.
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Old 10-02-2009, 05:56 PM   #18
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
I use two 4x12's loaded with Celestion G12C-25 Greenbacks with my Metroamp, and they're just sweet speakers. Midsy, creamy, not too boomy, and the treble isn't harsh. They don't have the tight bottom end of a 75, but I don't need it. That's what bass players are for!

In my AC30 I have a couple of honest Celestion Blues. Again, awesome speakers! Chimey top end, smooth mids, but like the greens, not heavy in the bass. In fact, with that AC30 driving them, they can get a little flubby at high volumes. Just awesome for that Vox tone, and if I stick that AC30 on one of the 4x12's, it the best of both worlds!

In my Fender I actually have some el-cheapo Jensen MOD 10-35's, and I have to admit, I was a skeptic at first. Surprisingly, they've grown on me, and I rather like the tone they produce. Very bass-heavy Fender-esque when not driven, which is awesome for some of that cowboy ****, but if you get that Super Reverb cranked up to the sky, the get a little of that British bite on 'em. Very cool speakers, and surprisingly cheap.

In my 2x12 cab I have the original Vox-branded Wharfedales in there. They're basically a Greenback G12H clone, and actually sound pretty damn good. I replaced the G12T-75's that were in there with 'em, and the G12T's found their way quickly onto Craigslist.

As far as G12T's go, I actually like the older, 80's ones. They sound much sweeter and heavier than the modern versions. I had some 1984 75's in my old JCM 800 combo, they were actually pretty bad ass sounding. The '97 75's in my 2x12... crap. That's why I sold 'em.

My pop plays an '87 JCM 800 on matching '87 A&B cabs. The bottom is loaded with 75's, the top loaded with 65's, and both cabinets are bad ass. His bottom end is seriously tight out of that B cab, and the treble and bite from the 65's up top is awesome.
Thanks for taking the time to relay all of this info. I see that you are another player that replaced his G12T-75's. I've never been a fan of them. They just don't seem to mess well with certain Marshall amps, especially a bright amp. The treble gets a little harsh for me.

I had a 4 x 12 cab with four of the Vox/Wharfdale speakers. They are not bad sounding speakers. In fact, someone tried out that cab and bought it on the spot. I got my Vox/Wharfdale speakers on EBAY for cheap. So if you are looking for some nice speakers cheap, keep your eyes open on EBAY or CL's for these speakers. Some players buy these Vox amps and pull these speakers out right away to put the alnico's in there. So most of the time these speakers are basically new.

I have built some lower cost cabinets and used the MOD speakers. I have only used the 12-inch. Yes, they seem to be a little darker than most 12-inch guitar speakers. It was what the customer wanted, but I personally did not like them.

In your AC30 you say you have Celestion Blues? Are these the G12 (aka P-A-G12) speakers? Those are very pricey, around $280 each. I'd also like to hear more about the G12-65's. I've heard some good things about those speakers, but I've never played through any of them.

Oh, your dad has a nice rig BTW.
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Old 10-02-2009, 06:02 PM   #19
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorNut1967 View Post
Hey look Marty's power tubes have Condoms!
Now, now there Major Nut. Where do you think little preamp tubes come from? It's like Solar said, you don't want premature microfonation occurring, because that can lead to unwanted JJ's.
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Old 10-02-2009, 07:05 PM   #20
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Warehouse Guitar Speakers, aka WGS. They make drop in replacements for many Celestion speakers. Go to their site, click on an interesting speaker and review the sound clips. Many, many sound clips here.

Warehouse Guitar Speakers | Products
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Old 10-02-2009, 07:11 PM   #21
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Here is US Speakers website for Eminence. They are showing some of the brand new models. I put the link here, because if you scroll all the way towards the bottom, you will find the Redcoat series speakers and they have sound clips for all of them. I could not find any Eminence link that had these sound clips.

Eminence Speakers - Eminence Guitar Legend lead & bass speakers - Eminence Guitar Legend speakers for amp upgrades for lead and bass guitar. Eminence guitar & bass speakers here.
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Old 10-02-2009, 07:19 PM   #22
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Here is a massive amount of clips using all kinds of vintage Marshall, Fender and other amps through Scumback speakers. Just click on the right side to begin the ride.

Scumbacks Speakers: Sound Clips
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:31 AM   #23
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by solarburnDSL50 View Post
I like the sounds of that Rajin Cajun. Pretty cool...
I keep at least a couple of those around and the Copperhead as well. The Rajun Cajun to me sounds better when there are two of them in a cabinet. I've tried them both open and closed back and I think they sound better in an open back.
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:47 AM   #24
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

I am trying to decide whether to get the Celestion G12T-75 or the Vintage 30's.
Of what i hear, the 75's are mid scooped, excellent tight bass response but their highs can be blistering :-/
And of the Vintage 30's fantastic mids, very mid-rangy, a looser bass reponse, and the speaker tends to break up quicker.

I would like to mix them both, with an Avatar cab, but im worried about quality. Money isnt an issue, i just want the perfect speaker tone!

My current Celestion 75's suck lol
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:48 AM   #25
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

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Originally Posted by MartyStrat54 View Post
I keep at least a couple of those around and the Copperhead as well. The Rajun Cajun to me sounds better when there are two of them in a cabinet. I've tried them both open and closed back and I think they sound better in an open back.
I like open back cabs. I went back and forth with the Cajun overdrive clip listening intently to the other clips on that page comparing the overdrive clips and I liked it pretty much the most out of what was there. I thought the cleans were nice and open too. I didn't really care about the heavy clips.

I think my stuff would jive with them. They on the radar now. What was their wattage again?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin_Lisa View Post

Where the hell is dirty ole Joe at?
Its "Boo-tique" fellas cause that price scares the tone out of my fingers...
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:52 AM   #26
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by butterguitar View Post
I am trying to decide whether to get the Celestion G12T-75 or the Vintage 30's.
Of what i hear, the 75's are mid scooped, excellent tight bass response but their highs can be blistering :-/
And of the Vintage 30's fantastic mids, very mid-rangy, a looser bass reponse, and the speaker tends to break up quicker.

I would like to mix them both, with an Avatar cab, but im worried about quality. Money isnt an issue, i just want the perfect speaker tone!

My current Celestion 75's suck lol
I hate the toppiness(high end)of the T-75's. I like V30's though especially in a band mix. A good mix I like is a k100 and a V30. Avatar cabs are nice for the price IMO.
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Hit the front end man. Your amp sauce is weak.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin_Lisa View Post

Where the hell is dirty ole Joe at?
Its "Boo-tique" fellas cause that price scares the tone out of my fingers...
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Old 10-03-2009, 01:02 AM   #27
butterguitar
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

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Originally Posted by solarburnDSL50 View Post
I hate the toppiness(high end)of the T-75's. I like V30's though especially in a band mix. A good mix I like is a k100 and a V30. Avatar cabs are nice for the price IMO.
Yeah im looking for a good speaker to cut through the mix. Since I do play with a keyboardist in my band haha
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Old 10-03-2009, 01:34 AM   #28
rockinr0ll
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

75 > 100 IMO. I bet a 65 would be the best to mix with a V30 though.
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Old 10-03-2009, 01:42 AM   #29
butterguitar
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Why do alot of people dislike the G-75? The 1960 cab is the "industry standard" haha
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Bugera 1990
Crate Blue Voodoo Cab w/ Celestion 75's
Crate g1600xl
Marshall MG w/ MC412
Kramer 1984
Epiphone SG Double Neck
OLP MM1 Guitar
Yamaha Pacificia
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Old 10-03-2009, 02:06 AM   #30
solarburnDSL50
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re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by butterguitar View Post
Why do alot of people dislike the G-75? The 1960 cab is the "industry standard" haha
Alot of people call them harsh cause of the high end sizzle and scooped mids. The lows are good IMO.

It depends on the amp, cab and guitar really but I have used a few amps with the T-75's with same guitar and still found them harsh. There are alot of players that like them too.

Mixing them with a V30 I've read does well but I only have experience mixing the G12K100 with a V30 so I can only go by hearsay on what I have read on mixing the T-75.
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1990 Infinium
1960 Infinium


Hit the front end man. Your amp sauce is weak.

Thor's Hammer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin_Lisa View Post

Where the hell is dirty ole Joe at?
Its "Boo-tique" fellas cause that price scares the tone out of my fingers...
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