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Old 03-06-2013, 07:54 AM   #1
Msharky67
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JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

We know how great the JCM800 series is and how good it sounds. I have always felt that they should take that platform and build off of that. All the mods you see that have been done to those amps. Why can't they just see that and build the amps the way the consumers want them? Instead of a newer series jcm900 ,2000,jvm. Its just not the same! IE the JMP 2204/2203 with FX loop,auto bias, half power switch maybe switch between modes and gain boost but still retain original tone too.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:03 AM   #2
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

They would if everyone would agree to pay the $6000 price for a head.

btw: the JVM is basically an 800. without the Drakes etc. different voicing etc.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:15 AM   #3
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

Not everybody wants an 800, and if they re-released it it would not be cheaper than finding one on craig's list and furthermore all the corksniffers will still hunt down the vintage ones cause they have 'that sound'.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:46 AM   #4
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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They would if everyone would agree to pay the $6000 price for a head.

btw: the JVM is basically an 800. without the Drakes etc. different voicing etc.
Excellent point. They made the MKII for a very long time and there are many out there to be had. When the used market dries up and the old ones become as hard to come by as a 60s plexi or JTM in say 2088 then a company like marshall will probably see some profit in producing a mkII in the vein of something say like the YJM. Perhaps buy that time the JMD 28 will probably be able to duplicate every Marshall made up to that point with the ability to change virtual tubes and transformers and modifications from your IPAD. So what would be the point? Everything will probably be digital at that point. Who knows acoustic drums were predicted to be a thing of the past as well and that hasnt happened yet either. Rest assured though if Marshall could make a buck producing an amp like the OP stated im sure they would no doubt be making them.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:02 AM   #5
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

This 2nd time around Digital invasion will make inroads, and then people will just go back to amps again like what happened the 90's.
They got it right with tube amps.
Even Axe Fx will outsmart themselves.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:30 AM   #6
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

Having used every modelling amp/device/software etc...live and in the studio for the last 25 years I am happy to say I have recently gone back (or forward) to using several tube amps one of which is a JCM800 model 4010 combo. It is hands down the best amp I have ever owned and I have owned many. I would love to have another one but realize that some things change or go away for various reasons. I too was frustrated for a while but accepted the fact that those amps are pretty much gone and my other tube amps( Fender BDRI/HRDLXiii both w/6V6s'/Egnater Tweaker and Crate V1512T etc...) get me much closer than any modelling stuff ever will to organic tones. The JCM800 and other older Marshalls are instruments themselves. That's why we love them as much or more than our guitars.Every time I get my JCM out for cleaning /biasing/just letting some electrons reform the caps etc... I end up playing the damn thing for 2 hours LOL!
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:38 AM   #7
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

The JCM800 and other older Marshalls are instruments themselves. That's why we love them as much or more than our guitars.Every time I get my JCM out for cleaning /biasing/just letting some electrons reform the caps etc... I end up playing the damn thing for 2 hours LOL!

Exactly.

I always thought that Marshall should have made a 2204/2203 with just a simple lead boost, like the SL X....without the cheapening of the transformers, less power supply....fuzzy, thin gain, etc.

No offense to SL X owners....but hey, compared to an older 800, or JMP...well, there is no comparison.

And...to get a DSL or TSL to sound remotely as good, you need new transformers, choke, NOS tubes, blah blah....

Been there.

But, there is always the price point thing, and I get it, from a business standpoint, and Marshall is successful for a reason....
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:19 PM   #8
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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This 2nd time around Digital invasion will make inroads, and then people will just go back to amps again like what happened the 90's.
They got it right with tube amps.
Even Axe Fx will outsmart themselves.
I agree with you aussie. I will be an old grey haired bastard lugging around my 2210 and cussing the kids with there digital rigs. No doubt about that. I think that only technology will improve in the future and it will probably be possible to tweak the digital wonder down to resistor values, type of transformer and brand of tubes. Instead of ordering vacuum tubes it will be a plug in down load or maybe available in the original amplifier. Virtual cab that allows you to pick your brand and model of speaker and possibly determine the percentage of wear that speaker has. Im being conceptual here and this may be after im dead but I think that it will get there eventually. Now how good it will be compared to the real thing I guess that will be the question. I dont use anything digital other than a digital reverb and delay but I think as technology improves so will the faux rigs..
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:30 PM   #9
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

You know, geeezzz, a great deal of this is hype. Yes, the 800 series, JMPs etc. had some very good sonic qualities..

But I disagree with anyone that says you cannot get similar BUT DIFFERENT tones that are just as good in their own way from the newer stuff. To disagree aside from playing the 'subjective' card is pure idiocy.

The older stuff is cool NO DOUBT..I've owned a few myself, but they have their shortcomings man, something that some can or cannot deal with..

It's really all what you want and need from your rig depending on your musical direction/course..

I think people garner them more because their in short supply as they are no longer in production.

I've heard JVMs (for the first time last weekend)..and DSLs (of course) sound every bit as cool as ALL the Marshalls I have heard over the past 25 ****ing years...

All I am saying is not to 'blindly' buy into the 'older is better' paradigm without first judging for yourself with your own ears.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:35 PM   #10
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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Originally Posted by Msharky67 View Post
Why can't they just see that and build the amps the way the consumers want them?.
and as i explained already to you,
they build amps the way most consumers want them...
DSL is one of the best selling amps ever, while the JVM is the best selling 50/100 watt unit at this moment... they still make 2203's 1959's, 4100's and god know what else, but the only UK-made things that sell at the moment are JVM's
you've been bragging and whining about this for a whole year or even more... don't you think it's time to let it rest and share something useful with us?

geez man... get a life...
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:25 PM   #11
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

I am on the same page as the OP. i have owned a lot of Marshall amps in my 40 years of playing and tend to gravitate toward the pre-1990 circuits. As far as 2203 I have owned many including reissues. They always sounded thin and buzzy to me until I heard Wycked Lesters 1982 JCM 2203, wow! This prompted me to search out and buy a 1981 JMP 2203. Between my JMP, Plexi, JCM800 2210 and old Bassman I have all the tone I need. I sold the boogies and bogner etc etc. Still have a Mark III JCM 900 and diesel VH4 (Kids toys ) around But the older Marshall's get all the action.

I installed effect loops in my amps In addition to a point to point turret board with carbon composite resistors sozo capacitors in my Plexi. This is tweaked to my liking.

Just my .02$
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:37 PM   #12
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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Old 03-06-2013, 01:41 PM   #13
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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Originally Posted by Msharky67 View Post
We know how great the JCM800 series is and how good it sounds. I have always felt that they should take that platform and build off of that. All the mods you see that have been done to those amps. Why can't they just see that and build the amps the way the consumers want them?
According to Jim, that was the reason for the 900 series!
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:00 PM   #14
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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Old 03-06-2013, 05:08 PM   #15
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

if I can just get my powerscaling in I'll be happy.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:39 PM   #16
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

You have to get an amp that sounds decent to begin with at a price point that consumers (gear slutz) like us can afford, and that we can mod (upgrade) it into that "sound" we all been searching for all our lives. Like one of the other posters stated Marshall could put one out with all mods we want, but at a price point few of us could afford, or would be willing to put out for. They make em, but their "Boo Tiq'z", and I can"t afford one...or could, but am not willing to put out that kind of jack for! lol
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:10 PM   #17
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

I don't understand why the 2203/2204 is so expensive to re-issue?

Compared to all the bigger newer amps made in the UK, they are bone head simple in design and parts count.

Most new owners of a JCM 800 want the same thing, at first...

--Less bright and brittle distortion
--More gain
--Better volume control

After some quality time, in the right playing environment ( IE at drummer volumes ), matched to the correct speaker ( G12-65 ), tuned right ( select tubes & bias ect...), and understanding the EQ controls...

Either the lightbulb goes off in their heads, and they say " OH, I get it now. " OR they realize they bought the wrong amp for their needs.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:18 PM   #18
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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I don't understand why the 2203/2204 is so expensive to re-issue?
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:13 PM   #19
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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Originally Posted by soundboy57 View Post
The JCM800 and other older Marshalls are instruments themselves. That's why we love them as much or more than our guitars.Every time I get my JCM out for cleaning /biasing/just letting some electrons reform the caps etc... I end up playing the damn thing for 2 hours LOL!

Exactly.

I always thought that Marshall should have made a 2204/2203 with just a simple lead boost, like the SL X....without the cheapening of the transformers, less power supply....fuzzy, thin gain, etc.

No offense to SL X owners....but hey, compared to an older 800, or JMP...well, there is no comparison.

And...to get a DSL or TSL to sound remotely as good, you need new transformers, choke, NOS tubes, blah blah....

Been there.

But, there is always the price point thing, and I get it, from a business standpoint, and Marshall is successful for a reason....
I've sunk enough money into repairs and NOS tubes for my tsl to buy 2 2203s, just to go spend 200 bucks on a 20 watt Jet City head and like it more.

I liked the 800 2203x I had for a month, just felt that it wasn't right for me at that time. Maybe now...
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:51 PM   #20
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

Yes , no question the 800 series amps have earned there place in Marshall's tone palace , great amps !! But for those of you who have not had a chance to play a 6100 on CH#2 , i would dare say that Marshall DID take the modified 800 tone to new levels in this chassis !
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:22 AM   #21
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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Originally Posted by NewReligion View Post
I am on the same page as the OP. i have owned a lot of Marshall amps in my 40 years of playing and tend to gravitate toward the pre-1990 circuits. As far as 2203 I have owned many including reissues. They always sounded thin and buzzy to me until I heard Wycked Lesters 1982 JCM 2203, wow! This prompted me to search out and buy a 1981 JMP 2203. Between my JMP, Plexi, JCM800 2210 and old Bassman I have all the tone I need. I sold the boogies and bogner etc etc. Still have a Mark III JCM 900 and diesel VH4 (Kids toys ) around But the older Marshall's get all the action.

I installed effect loops in my amps In addition to a point to point turret board with carbon composite resistors sozo capacitors in my Plexi. This is tweaked to my liking.

Just my .02$
Thank you. You got some good ears.
I have always marveled at the alter that the 800's sit on....
to be fair, they are wildly inconsistant, they were turning them out like hotcakes after the Rose Morris deal was over with....

I hope it is ok to quote Bob at Eurotubes (I've bought a ton of tubes from him), and he has this to say on his website:

The only warning I have on the 800 series amps is, always play one before you buy one! They are the most inconsistent Marshall's ever made. You can line up 10 of them no matter which model, and you will find 2 or 3 that sound amazing, then 2 or 3 that sound really flat and sterol with the rest of them sounding pretty good, but not amazing. Good tubes and proper bias will help a few of the amps that fall in that middle ground but you will find that several will still sound mediocre at best even with good tubes and proper bias. Buyer beware!

On the other hand, the several 70's JMP's I have either owned, or played over the years...pretty much ALL sounded amazing.


Maybe that's what you experienced...it's about a 3 out of 10 crap shoot...
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:44 AM   #22
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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Originally Posted by Australian View Post
This 2nd time around Digital invasion will make inroads, and then people will just go back to amps again like what happened the 90's.
They got it right with tube amps.
Even Axe Fx will outsmart themselves.
Nah, just wait. Down the road we will see tube amps imitating a SS modeler and people will claim it is just not the real thing.

Well, maybe not. But it sounded good when I thought it up. That 3-4 hours of sleep I've been getting each night combined with being sick, going to school, and waiting to be told if I am part of the layoff of 1/3 of the work force at my place might be taking its toll on me. Either that or I'm just an idiot, but if y'all have read my posts in the past you already knew that!

Oh, and for the record I think a JCM sounds fine, but a JTM-45 would be my preferred tool if I had just one higher powered amp.

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Old 03-07-2013, 03:03 AM   #23
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

no matter what Marshall did to an 800 most would still stick a pedal in front of it anyway.lol
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:15 AM   #24
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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no matter what Marshall did to an 800 most would still stick a pedal in front of it anyway.lol
And complain that the higher gain 900's sound too fuzzy, while the 800's dont have enough gain!
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:06 AM   #25
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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Originally Posted by wakjob View Post
I don't understand why the 2203/2204 is so expensive to re-issue?

Compared to all the bigger newer amps made in the UK, they are bone head simple in design and parts count.

Most new owners of a JCM 800 want the same thing, at first...

--Less bright and brittle distortion
--More gain
--Better volume control

After some quality time, in the right playing environment ( IE at drummer volumes ), matched to the correct speaker ( G12-65 ), tuned right ( select tubes & bias ect...), and understanding the EQ controls...

Either the lightbulb goes off in their heads, and they say " OH, I get it now. " OR they realize they bought the wrong amp for their needs.
Aren't most amps today built by a assembly line and i've seen how the boards are built. I don't think labor is a factor. Even if they were built in North Korea or China I am sure we would still buy them. Right!

Bugera (quality aside) can make a Plexi with PPIV and auto bias ,FX loop for an afforable price but Marshall can't put together one with those same features.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:16 AM   #26
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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Originally Posted by blues_n_cues View Post
no matter what Marshall did to an 800 most would still stick a pedal in front of it anyway.lol
the magic of the old jcm 800 is not gain (the jcm 900 has more) it's the clarity of the amp at high volumes
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:18 AM   #27
big dooley
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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Originally Posted by Msharky67 View Post
Aren't most amps today built by a assembly line and i've seen how the boards are built. I don't think labor is a factor.
it is... new style amplifiers take 20 mins to get the boards ready to be put in the amps...
reissues, using the well-known ST1-board take about 1 to 1.5 hours to get them ready... and then everything has to be soldered up by hand, while the new style amps are all plugs 'n sockets

that's why the 2203X is more expensive then a JVM410H
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:07 PM   #28
soundboy57
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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Originally Posted by avivoni View Post
the magic of the old jcm 800 is not gain (the jcm 900 has more) it's the clarity of the amp at high volumes
Exactly. Most all the 800's, 900's, 2000's, sound decent at home, at lower volumes...it's at gigging volumes that the boys are seperated from the men...and the tone gets separated in the mix...so to speak.
And the lesser ones get new transformers, chokes, NOS tubes, etc, thrown at them, to keep up with
the better performers of old...

That is exactly why there is so much disparity in opinions on all the Marshall line, when you throw the "at home" players in to the mix, IMHO....
And, that would be me these days!!!
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:46 PM   #29
explorickenbacker
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

Couldn't the problems with the sl-x be fixed simply by upgrading parts?
Quote:
like the SL X....without the cheapening of the transformers, less power supply....fuzzy, thin gain, etc.

No offense to SL X owners....but hey, compared to an older 800, or JMP...well, there is no comparison.
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:14 PM   #30
Adrian R
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Re: JCM800! Why can't Marshall get it right!

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Originally Posted by soundboy57 View Post
Exactly. Most all the 800's, 900's, 2000's, sound decent at home, at lower volumes...it's at gigging volumes that the boys are seperated from the men...and the tone gets separated in the mix...so to speak.
And the lesser ones get new transformers, chokes, NOS tubes, etc, thrown at them, to keep up with
the better performers of old...

That is exactly why there is so much disparity in opinions on all the Marshall line, when you throw the "at home" players in to the mix, IMHO....
And, that would be me these days!!!
But the older amps have their limitations man..single channel, no boost, power scaling, etc. Everything comes with cost, and the disparity between the new and old is definitely tangent man..

I've owned the older amps man..and have used them in a live band setting..JMPs, 900S and 800s...for my needs the DSL is WAY better then the others even with the small tonal cost, and I mean *small*...I have my DSLs sounding SO much like a good 800 now man...and I have far more options..its really no contest man...oh and lastly btw..I play ****ING LOUD! Just ask my pissed off band mates! LOL!!

I also do not want to dis the old stuff man..its KICK ASS I love it too...hopefully one day I can actually make the money like MANY of us use to make, and buy some of this old stuff back..its cool just owning it man..
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Last edited by Adrian R; 03-07-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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