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Old 10-24-2010, 07:32 PM   #1
pureanalog
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Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

A couple of questions first.

Aren't their power stages similar?

What about their preamp stages? Can't a TSL be dialed in to sound exactly like a DSL in any mode?


In what way are TSLs inferior than DSLs soundwise and design-wise.

I have played both TSLs and DSLs and I cannot see why people trash these amps so badly... I found their crunch channel really good for hard rock tones and I love it. The cleans are pretty nice too and they can be set seperately from the dist. channel.

I am contemplating in getting another Marshall and I am torn between a JVM vs a TSL combo in 1x12 format. I tend to prefer the TSL from what I have heard.
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:36 PM   #2
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

If you like it, get it. Other people's (often heavily biased and without reason) opinions shouldn't effect what amp you like and spend your money on.
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:42 PM   #3
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

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If you like it, get it. Other people's (often heavily biased and without reason) opinions shouldn't effect what amp you like and spend your money on.

I like the DSL100's I have played too, but they are not availavle in combo format (only the crappy dsl combos...).

But I like hearing other people's opinions too. It is not that my ear is absolute and with a few hours of playing the DSLs and TSLs, I know all about them. Id prefer to listen to people who have lived for a while with those amps.
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:46 PM   #4
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

Uhm, no. I have a DSL401 and I like it. It may not be what you like, that's okay. But it sure as heck is NOT a crappy amp. It is an all Valve amp, it is small, & it suits my needs. You are high on illicit substances if you think that becuse it isn't what you want/like that it's a crappy amp.
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Old 10-24-2010, 08:00 PM   #5
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

Because they are the DSL's retarded sibling.

We prefer the Term "Sonically Challenged"....

TWIN
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Old 10-24-2010, 08:07 PM   #6
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

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Because they are the DSL's retarded sibling.

We prefer the Term "Sonically Challenged"....

TWIN
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Old 10-24-2010, 08:21 PM   #7
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

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Uhm, no. I have a DSL401 and I like it. It may not be what you like, that's okay. But it sure as heck is NOT a crappy amp. It is an all Valve amp, it is small, & it suits my needs. You are high on illicit substances if you think that becuse it isn't what you want/like that it's a crappy amp.
I had a 401 for a year . Never was satisfied really , barely any bass response from the OD channels and OD2 had way too much gain on the circuit .

A good clean channel but It never really sount that good overall.


I much prefer my VM
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Old 10-24-2010, 08:21 PM   #8
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

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Originally Posted by pureanalog View Post
A couple of questions first.

Aren't their power stages similar?

What about their preamp stages? Can't a TSL be dialed in to sound exactly like a DSL in any mode?


In what way are TSLs inferior than DSLs soundwise and design-wise.

I have played both TSLs and DSLs and I cannot see why people trash these amps so badly... I found their crunch channel really good for hard rock tones and I love it. The cleans are pretty nice too and they can be set seperately from the dist. channel.

I am contemplating in getting another Marshall and I am torn between a JVM vs a TSL combo in 1x12 format. I tend to prefer the TSL from what I have heard.
First off...whether they sound "better" or "worse" is highly subjective and depends on who you talk to. Furthermore, there was never a "datum" specified as to what this "worse" reference was compared to. So in this regard this is a bull**** question.

Second off...the power stages for the most part are identical. The TSLs do have the VPR switch which is nothing more than a preset PPIMV that gets bypassed when the VPR switch is disengaged.

The main differences are in the preamp. Like the DSLs they can be easily tweaked to be suited to ones liking.
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Old 10-24-2010, 08:28 PM   #9
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

They don't ..it's all opinion...
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Old 10-24-2010, 08:28 PM   #10
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

The DSL and TSL's are differently voiced. they can be similar in every other respect but, they will sound different because of this. I owned both and i can say...the TSL60 i owned always sounded....flat. The lead dialed in with the verb could get some alright tones but, when i bought the DSL i was figuring it wasn't going to be anything special as i owned the TSL60 and a 4500 but, MAN it's a different beast entirely and the mere fact that it's so versatile is an accomplishment as Marshall is known as a "rock" or "one trick pony" company to outsiders.
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Old 10-24-2010, 08:31 PM   #11
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

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Originally Posted by TwinACStacks View Post
Because they are the DSL's retarded sibling.

We prefer the Term "Sonically Challenged"....

TWIN

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Old 10-24-2010, 08:39 PM   #12
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

because TSL's are UGLY
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:36 PM   #13
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

I don't have much of an opinion, but I love my TSL 601. Not impressed with the 2 gain channels, but the clean channel with boxes for distortion is fantastic.
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Old 10-24-2010, 11:45 PM   #14
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinACStacks View Post
Because they are the DSL's retarded sibling.

We prefer the Term "Sonically Challenged"....

TWIN
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Old 10-25-2010, 06:39 AM   #15
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

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Originally Posted by pureanalog View Post
A couple of questions first.

Aren't their power stages similar?

What about their preamp stages? Can't a TSL be dialed in to sound exactly like a DSL in any mode?


In what way are TSLs inferior than DSLs soundwise and design-wise.

I have played both TSLs and DSLs and I cannot see why people trash these amps so badly... I found their crunch channel really good for hard rock tones and I love it. The cleans are pretty nice too and they can be set seperately from the dist. channel.

I am contemplating in getting another Marshall and I am torn between a JVM vs a TSL combo in 1x12 format. I tend to prefer the TSL from what I have heard.
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Old 10-25-2010, 06:52 AM   #16
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

haha, perhaps so...

Anyhow here is Slash playing a TSL100


And it sounds pretty good. Perhaps even better than his usual tone with the Jubilee.

By the way I just sold my jubilee, I really found its lead tone incredible. But the rhythm tone was nothing to die for. Nor where the cleans.
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Old 10-25-2010, 06:59 AM   #17
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

^^^ heck, slash would even sound good using an MG head. And you wouldnt even tell the diffrence
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:11 AM   #18
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

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^^^ heck, slash would even sound good using an MG head. And you wouldnt even tell the diffrence
Well I probably could. I didn't particularly enjoy his Vintage Modern tones.

But anyhow, he sounds to my ears just as good or even better than with his normal jubilee rig.
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:32 AM   #19
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

I play the JMP 50 watt MV head I bought new in '77 because it fits what I do.

That said, the TSL and DSL amps were designed to give players more freedom to play different styles more easily without carrying multipule amps.

All Marshall amps fit SOMEONES idea of the PERFECT amp for there style of playing.

A Marshall is a Marshall know matter what model !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many guitar players to change a light bulb?

100.............1 to do it.........
and 99 to say,....................
That guy SUCKS..................
I could do it WAY better, faster, better sound...........

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Old 10-25-2010, 08:56 AM   #20
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterichardz View Post

How many guitar players to change a light bulb?

100.............1 to do it.........
and 99 to say,....................
That guy SUCKS..................
I could do it WAY better, faster, better sound...........

Nah...1 to change it....

And the other 99 to say "The old one sounded better".
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Old 10-25-2010, 11:30 AM   #21
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

A big problem with the TSL compared to Marshall amps that I had before the TSL (I can't comment on the DSL, but this may be an issue that causes the TSL to get a bad rep) - is that with all previous Marshall amps, I just cranked everything to 10 and there I was. With the TSL it was very thin and fizzy with it all on 10 (at least with the stock valves). You had to dial a tone in. Same with the JMP1 actually, you could get some great tones out of it, but it took some effort.

FWIW I liked my TSL and kept it till the JVM came out.
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Old 10-25-2010, 11:38 AM   #22
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

THe TSL just has too damned many knobs...lol...KISS
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Old 10-25-2010, 11:39 AM   #23
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

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THe TSL just has too damned many knobs...lol...KISS
This is true. I can recall gigging with it, and our support act were using our backline, the guitarist wanted more gain, so he reached for the knob and turned it up...it was one of the volume knobs....almost blew the back wall of the club out!
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:40 PM   #24
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

Now take what I say with a grain of salt, a shot of tequila and a good sounding light bulb!

Actually maybe, I should throw the Bret Michaels Band in there?


Anyway, I have the TSL100 and the DSL100. I have yet to do a critical side by side taste test, preferably "Driving While Blind" (that is an old ZZ Top song for all you youngsters out there ) And I have yet to do my homework and de-code the schematics for each to see what is exactly going on inside these amps as well. It is on my To Do List.

What I have noticed though, is that MY TSL100 (this might not apply to other peoples TSL & DSL disclaimer) has A LOT more mids in the EQ voicing. This is even more aparent when comparing the TSL Clean channel to the DSL Clean mode. As I had both amps in stereo into the same 4X12 cab. I had to put the TSL Clean channel mid down to almost 3 and turn the DSL Clean mode mid UP to over 6 to match them up. The Crunch channels are somewhat close, but it is almost a situation of comparing Apples and Oranges. At lower volumes the DSL is the winner on the Dirt channels.

This is the issue for me with the TSL100. It is an amazing amp if you are able to get the volume up there quite a bit. There was only a couple of occasions where I was able to play my TSL loud, and I was floored by how amazing the Crunch and Lead channels were coming through my 4X12 G12-65 cab. My TSL loves the EL34 Wing C as well as the Svetlana EL34's. But now I have Valve Art KT66's in it and I can not even remember what it sounds like as I have not dug it out in quite a long time.

To me, when the DSL Crunch mode starts getting it's volume up to band levels, it has that "sound" to me, that makes me think "that is what Marshall is all about and how they are supposed to sound". It has a smoother grind to it but still retains that "Marshall Growl", if that makes any sense.

So, what I am saying is, if you are going to be able to crank the volume up, do not think twice about passing up on a TSL100. If you will be having to keep the volume down, then the DSL50 would probably be the way to go. I wish I could hear the DSL50 next to my DSL100 as people say they sound different. I have ran my DSL100 with two power tubes pulled as well, but it is not a drastic drop in volume.
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:07 PM   #25
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

The amp will be played at rehearsals and live gigs. So the volume will always be high.
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:54 PM   #26
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

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The amp will be played at rehearsals and live gigs. So the volume will always be high.
I can only say what I've said before. I loved my TSL. I chose it because I wanted clean and then 2 different dirty sounds (rhythm and solo). I never had any problems with it, and if the JVM hadn't come out I'd still be with it now!
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:02 PM   #27
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

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I can only say what I've said before. I loved my TSL. I chose it because I wanted clean and then 2 different dirty sounds (rhythm and solo). I never had any problems with it, and if the JVM hadn't come out I'd still be with it now!

Oh I see. These are my requirements too basically. Cleans, Rhythm and Lead channel.

Please elaborate on the comparison with the JVM.
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:07 PM   #28
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

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Oh I see. These are my requirements too basically. Cleans, Rhythm and Lead channel.

Please elaborate on the comparison with the JVM.
The main gripe that I had with the TSL was the lack of MIDI control, I had a 6100 in the 90s so I knew that it was possible. I had to build a midi switch => TSL footswitch socket convertor, so that I could control my TSL via my MIDI pedal board.

I loved the TSL's sounds - I play 80s rock, from ACDC to Van Halen, Sabbath to Maiden. With the occasional clean song...

I went with the JVM cos it did all that my TSL rig did (including MIDI switching), but also had more channels. I could have in essence 12 channels with the JVM (although I find myself never using OD2 - too much gain ) and each channel had 2 levels of volume that were switchable.
And, lets be honest, I had GAS. I wanted to buy some new kit.

But, if someone said to me "you can only have a TSL to gig with" - I'd be happy. That said, if someone gave me *any* Marshall all valve amp (at the risk of getting flamed, I prefer master volume amps) - I'd be happy to use that and that alone.
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:10 PM   #29
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

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Oh I see. These are my requirements too basically. Cleans, Rhythm and Lead channel.

Please elaborate on the comparison with the JVM.
I have that with my DSL with the Clean/Crunch footswitch mod. Turns the DSL into what the TSL should have been IMO.
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:20 PM   #30
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Re: Why do TSLs sound worse than DSLs?

Manic, there are midi to relay devices that do the job without the need for a new amp, but it's gas, you can't fight it!!


Jcmjmp. You don't have a seperate gain knob for each of those modes I assume. So it is not quite the same is it?

I liked the TSL122 more than the DSL100 that I compared with to be honest. But it is not that the DSL was not GREAT for me too.


Does the TSL do any passable plexi tones like the JVM does?
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