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Old 03-19-2010, 05:51 AM   #1
craigny
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Question Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

Id like to get close to his early tone...I have the Wolfgang, so that helps...so here is what i have already ...JCM900 MKlll....Seymour Duncan Pickup Booster....and a Boss DD6 delay pedal. So what do i need to get me that type of sound...Phase 90???I wanted to get the MXR micro chorus cause i like to add a little to my tone to fatten it up, but what do you guys suggest within reason to get me close to it?
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Old 03-19-2010, 06:53 AM   #2
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

ahahahaha anybody asking for EVH?

http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org...nd%20JMP-1.mp3
(if Altervista shows up, click on QUI to access the file)
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http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org/index.html
The Brown Sound is HERE: http://www.marshallforum.com/cellar/...ally-here.html

Marshall gear :
- JMP-1 midi valve preamp
- 1981 JCM800 1959 SuperLead
- 1983 JCM800 2203
- 1987 Silver Jubilee 2555

- 1969 Basketweave replica with Celestion Pre-Rola G12M 25W T1221


Guitars: 2008 Parker Fly Mojo, 1995 Fly Deluxe "Eldy", 1959 pre-CBS Strat and 1993 ObG 1959 Les Paul replica
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Old 03-19-2010, 06:57 AM   #3
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

Aye yeah I forgot. I used Eldy (1995 Parker Fly Deluxe), JMP-1 and IR (a 4x12 Greenback-loaded with SM57 on front and an ambience mic, panned hard). Delay and mid boost on the lead part. So not really EVH gear
Notice how the guitars (and mics) are panned. This is one of the most critical aspects. Forget the Variac and all that sh*t.
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http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org/index.html
The Brown Sound is HERE: http://www.marshallforum.com/cellar/...ally-here.html

Marshall gear :
- JMP-1 midi valve preamp
- 1981 JCM800 1959 SuperLead
- 1983 JCM800 2203
- 1987 Silver Jubilee 2555

- 1969 Basketweave replica with Celestion Pre-Rola G12M 25W T1221


Guitars: 2008 Parker Fly Mojo, 1995 Fly Deluxe "Eldy", 1959 pre-CBS Strat and 1993 ObG 1959 Les Paul replica
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Old 03-19-2010, 08:57 AM   #4
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigny View Post
Id like to get close to his early tone...I have the Wolfgang, so that helps...so here is what i have already ...JCM900 MKlll....Seymour Duncan Pickup Booster....and a Boss DD6 delay pedal. So what do i need to get me that type of sound...Phase 90???I wanted to get the MXR micro chorus cause i like to add a little to my tone to fatten it up, but what do you guys suggest within reason to get me close to it?
Which Van Halen era you trying to cover?
If you want VH1, the 1st thing you need to do is sell the JCM900 MKII and get a 1959(100w) or 1987(50w) 4 holer or a JMC800 2204/2203. Ideally, you'd get a Super Lead 12000 series. The JCM900 MKIII simply does not have the base tone you need. If you're on a budget, a DSL would be a better option for this style.
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:47 AM   #5
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

Dime every control on your amp. Then if you're still thinking about getting that avatar cab, load it with greenbacks. Maxing out your amp isn't a realistic answer but that's basically how he got his sound, just an old super lead 100 with all the controls on 10.
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:11 AM   #6
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

I use a JCM800 2204 and a general guitar gadgets BSIAB (brownsound in a box) Pedal.

General Guitar Gadgets - BSIAB2 Complete Kit

Metro Amp makes one that hits it. check out the video. More expensive than a pedal but a nice addition to anyones guitar rig for sure!

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Old 03-19-2010, 11:33 AM   #7
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

HA HA! that video was fricken great! Better than 99% of the cover bands in my area. Hey Tbwrench, do you love your 425a cab?
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:55 AM   #8
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

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Originally Posted by anthonyr View Post
HA HA! that video was fricken great! Better than 99% of the cover bands in my area. Hey Tbwrench, do you love your 425a cab?
I hated it. I bought it to pair up with my JTM45, flubby bass deluxe. I hooked up to my 2204-JCM800 and great sound! It sounds great with my Sovtek Mig50 too. It is a keeper. Smooth mids and not ear piercing. There is one for sale on the board in NYC. If I had the cash, I would make the drive from wis. to get it.

It is the third from the left. (425A)
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:20 PM   #9
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

I know, I've been watching it. I was thinking about shipping him a road case and having him ship it back. Just an idea since they don't exist in my neck of the woods. I think the VM cab is bound to be a future classic, but don't tell anyone else 'till I get one.
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:24 PM   #10
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

Yeah, I got mine about a month ago at guitar C and paid 580 for it. They have some online there as well and they ship to local stores free in most cases.

good luck.
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Old 03-19-2010, 01:28 PM   #11
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmjmp View Post
Which Van Halen era you trying to cover?
If you want VH1, the 1st thing you need to do is sell the JCM900 MKII and get a 1959(100w) or 1987(50w) 4 holer or a JMC800 2204/2203. Ideally, you'd get a Super Lead 12000 series. The JCM900 MKIII simply does not have the base tone you need. If you're on a budget, a DSL would be a better option for this style.
Thanks for the info...well i dont want to sell the 900 as i play alot of heavier stuff too and the 900 does that well. I know i cant have my cake and eat it too...but what can i get to get me a brown "type" of sonud on tap if i need it....
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Old 03-19-2010, 02:55 PM   #12
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigny View Post
Thanks for the info...well i dont want to sell the 900 as i play alot of heavier stuff too and the 900 does that well. I know i cant have my cake and eat it too...but what can i get to get me a brown "type" of sonud on tap if i need it....
General guitar gadgets BSIAB brown sound in a box.
If you don't want to built it I will do it for you for a reasonable fee.
here is a sound clip.

Thes sound great through a marshall.

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Bass Rig - GK 1001RBII, 412 Neo, GK 1001RBII and Mesa 1516 cab.


'74 Les Paul Custom, Les Paul tribute-P90's Gold Top, SG Standard, '08 Fender American Strat, Am DLX Tele, Classic Vibe Tele. - Bass- Fender American Deluxe Jazz V.

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Old 03-19-2010, 04:01 PM   #13
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

The problem of all these boxes, since they are basically transistor driven devices, is one little magic word... named "dynamics".
But of course they are better than nothing... and way less expensive than a Plexi and a 1960ax/bx cabinet...

It all depends to how close you wish to get The closer, the more expensive!
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http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org/index.html
The Brown Sound is HERE: http://www.marshallforum.com/cellar/...ally-here.html

Marshall gear :
- JMP-1 midi valve preamp
- 1981 JCM800 1959 SuperLead
- 1983 JCM800 2203
- 1987 Silver Jubilee 2555

- 1969 Basketweave replica with Celestion Pre-Rola G12M 25W T1221


Guitars: 2008 Parker Fly Mojo, 1995 Fly Deluxe "Eldy", 1959 pre-CBS Strat and 1993 ObG 1959 Les Paul replica
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:22 PM   #14
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

I agree with wkc. I think most of the threads concerning how to obtain a certain artists sound should be approached with, "How much of their equipment can you buy?"

While it's true that "technique" is a major factor, the bottom line is you should get the same amp, guitar, pickups and string brand and gauge the artist used. You need the major ingredients if you want to make Van Halen rock pie.

Sorry to say, Eddie never played a 900.
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:26 PM   #15
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbwrench View Post
General guitar gadgets BSIAB brown sound in a box.
If you don't want to built it I will do it for you for a reasonable fee.
here is a sound clip.

Thes sound great through a marshall.

YouTube - BSIAB 2/ G.C. King of the Blues
WOW the metro amp NAILS it!! But i cant afford something like that now...But the BSIAB sounds killer too...id be interested in that...i see the kit is like $54! Are you running any other effects or is that all comming through that pedal? Also, i dont think id be building anything like that LOL, so how much we talkin here for assembly very interested!!
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:56 PM   #16
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

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Originally Posted by MartyStrat54 View Post
I agree with wkc. I think most of the threads concerning how to obtain a certain artists sound should be approached with, "How much of their equipment can you buy?"

While it's true that "technique" is a major factor, the bottom line is you should get the same amp, guitar, pickups and string brand and gauge the artist used. You need the major ingredients if you want to make Van Halen rock pie.
I don't agree.

You can get real close with a NMV Marshall, greenback type speakers and a medium output alnico pickup.

You don't need the exact same gear. Case in point - The metroamp link that tbwrench posted.
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Old 03-19-2010, 10:25 PM   #17
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

Here is another metro brown sound type clip, though not as good as the other one I posted.

The amp is the 68 spec amp. Still sounds pretty cool.

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Old 03-20-2010, 12:10 AM   #18
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

I think craigny is on a budget like most of us are so re-outfitting him with an entirely new/different rig isn't really possible. I still think he should start with the Avatar greenback 2x12 before buying anything else, including picks or strings You're going to hear things you haven't heard with your MG like a great midrange crunch and smooth highs and lows. Also, your MkIII is capable of doing a lot of things for a single channel amp so take some time to work with it and see what you can come up with.
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Old 03-20-2010, 01:27 AM   #19
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmjmp View Post
I don't agree.

You can get real close with a NMV Marshall, greenback type speakers and a medium output alnico pickup.

You don't need the exact same gear. Case in point - The metroamp link that tbwrench posted.
Well, I see your point. It's like the guy in an AC/DC tribute band that plays a Stratocaster. I guess you don't really need a 60's SG.

Some people have a way of reaching a tone through different means. I said what I did based on the numerous other threads on this subject. Most people state the artist's gear and then it's like, "Buy that."

I understand that there is "the" sound and "close." For some, "close" is good enough.
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Old 03-20-2010, 04:13 AM   #20
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

Well I agree with both Marty and jcmjmp.
The problem is that you can't buy the EXACT same gear VH used for recording that album.
That Marshall may have been modded and who knows how.

So I agree: a 1959/1987 or 2203/2204 (but with master up full), Weber Mass 200 (or 100 for the 50w amps - always get an attenuator that can handle double the power if the amp is going to be cranked full!), 4x12 with Greenback.
The key is to get power tube saturation, and this means very high volume!

The problem of such stompboxes is the same of modellers. They try to EMULATE a quite complex phenomenon (supposingly an amp with a saturated pre and power section) using a solid state circuit (or digital algorithm in the case of modellers). So they're only an imitation of the real thing and generally lack in dynamics (but are plug n play and cost-effective, and won't wear out your tubes).
Solid state and hybrid amps (such as Valvestate, with a valve pre and a solid state power amp) have the same issue. On the contrary, solid state saturation should be avoided as it sounds far from musical, so a solid state power amp should be run the cleanest possible.
Unfortunately, the only way to catch the crunch we all love is to saturate the power tubes! This of course leads to a shorter lifetime of them.

Hear this clip to have an idea:
http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org...ch%20style.mp3
(click on QUI if Altervista shows up)

Sounds good uh, doesn't it?
This was made with the JMP-1 with gain on 1 and the EL34 50/50 with volume at 75%, so pushed hard enough to have its EL34s overdriven (and the Palmer speaker sim). If I lower the voluem on the power amp and try to compensate adding gain on the JMP-1, it won't sound the same. It'll lose organicity/dynamics and get harsher. Obviously a compromise can be reached.
I posted the clip not to hijack the thread, but just to show how important is power tube saturation to a crunch sound (and this is why an attenuator is critical IMO).
In fact EVH, Brian May, Blackmore and many others recorded their crunch tones at INSANELY loud volume (no attenuators!). Both EVH and BM set the volume up to full on their Plexi and Vox respectively (with the latter even using a treble booster to push it even harder!)!!!
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http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org/index.html
The Brown Sound is HERE: http://www.marshallforum.com/cellar/...ally-here.html

Marshall gear :
- JMP-1 midi valve preamp
- 1981 JCM800 1959 SuperLead
- 1983 JCM800 2203
- 1987 Silver Jubilee 2555

- 1969 Basketweave replica with Celestion Pre-Rola G12M 25W T1221


Guitars: 2008 Parker Fly Mojo, 1995 Fly Deluxe "Eldy", 1959 pre-CBS Strat and 1993 ObG 1959 Les Paul replica

Last edited by wkcchampion; 03-20-2010 at 04:45 AM. Reason: lots of info
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Old 03-20-2010, 06:54 AM   #21
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

Well guys thanks for all the responses, the info has been great!!!Like anthonyr said, im not lookin to change my rig, so i understand that there will be limits to what i can achieve with what i have....the Avatar cab(or speakers from WGS) will happen down the road but i think the BSIAB pedal will get me a "brownish" type of sound foe a reasonalbe price for now. I was going to buy an MXR phase90, an MXR flanger, and an MXR micro chorus and fiddle around withthose, but mabye ill get the BSIAB and try that.
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Old 03-20-2010, 07:02 AM   #22
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

I give you another idea, regarding the power tube sat. achievement.

Try the following:
- Master volume up full.
- Try now either to crank the Clean channel (perhaps with a boost) or boost the lead channel with not much gain
- Bass, mid, treb, pres all full

It will be loud if you don't have an attenuator, but if u have the chance, try it out
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Marco

http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org/index.html
The Brown Sound is HERE: http://www.marshallforum.com/cellar/...ally-here.html

Marshall gear :
- JMP-1 midi valve preamp
- 1981 JCM800 1959 SuperLead
- 1983 JCM800 2203
- 1987 Silver Jubilee 2555

- 1969 Basketweave replica with Celestion Pre-Rola G12M 25W T1221


Guitars: 2008 Parker Fly Mojo, 1995 Fly Deluxe "Eldy", 1959 pre-CBS Strat and 1993 ObG 1959 Les Paul replica
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Old 03-20-2010, 07:25 AM   #23
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

Quote:
Originally Posted by wkcchampion View Post
I give you another idea, regarding the power tube sat. achievement.

Try the following:
- Master volume up full.
- Try now either to crank the Clean channel (perhaps with a boost) or boost the lead channel with not much gain
- Bass, mid, treb, pres all full

It will be loud if you don't have an attenuator, but if u have the chance, try it out
Well i have the Seymour duncan pickup booster arriving in a couple of days....i can try unsig that, backing off the gain, and dime all the eq's...what do ya think?
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Old 03-20-2010, 07:47 AM   #24
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

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Originally Posted by craigny View Post
Well i have the Seymour duncan pickup booster arriving in a couple of days....i can try unsig that, backing off the gain, and dime all the eq's...what do ya think?
Excellent. It should work!
I can't say much more as I don't know exactly how your 900 behaves. Just keep in mind that the key is to drive the power tubes, so the concept should be to keep the master fully open and control the gain and sound via the gain and booster.
I suggested to dime all the EQ knobs because Eddie did, it's a good starting point. If the sound is harsh or dull, move the knobs as needed.

I do the same thing on my modded AC30cc2x. I forget of the Master volume it's always up full. Then I dial in the voluem to get the amount of gain/saturation needed and control the overall (loud!) volume either with the Weber or the Palmer.
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http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org/index.html
The Brown Sound is HERE: http://www.marshallforum.com/cellar/...ally-here.html

Marshall gear :
- JMP-1 midi valve preamp
- 1981 JCM800 1959 SuperLead
- 1983 JCM800 2203
- 1987 Silver Jubilee 2555

- 1969 Basketweave replica with Celestion Pre-Rola G12M 25W T1221


Guitars: 2008 Parker Fly Mojo, 1995 Fly Deluxe "Eldy", 1959 pre-CBS Strat and 1993 ObG 1959 Les Paul replica
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Old 03-20-2010, 04:11 PM   #25
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

The easy way:

Wampler Pedals - Custom effects pedals - all original designs - Pinnacle 2

Scroll down and Listen.

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Old 03-20-2010, 04:26 PM   #26
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

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sounds real good
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Old 03-21-2010, 12:00 PM   #27
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

easy.
18 watt homebrew Marshall dimed, through a 2x12 G12-65 Celestion cabinet.
...Strat with a hot PAF humbucker in the bridge.
...your half way home.
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Old 03-21-2010, 02:15 PM   #28
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

Well come on...what's the other half???
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Old 03-21-2010, 02:26 PM   #29
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

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Well come on...what's the other half???
Heineken's and a truck load of cocaine......
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Old 03-21-2010, 02:55 PM   #30
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Re: Lookin for Eddie's "Brown Sound"

Matching Eddie's album tone is always an exercise in gross approximation. The amount of studio engineering alchemy (at the mixing board, never mind the baseline gear being used) that went into producing that classic "brown sound" is prodigious. You can't really duplicate it, you can only ever hope to simulate it roughly.

However, the core character of that sound is not hard to capture with modern technology, particularly if you have the right technique and phrasing. Yes, that's right, I believe that 95% of simulating convincing EVH tone is in playing technique and that any combination of about a thousand different bits of easily obtained gear will get you the other 5%.

And when I say "convincing", I mean it will make all but the most hardcore EVH pedants jump up and shout "F**k yeah!!!" and start headbanging 80's style.
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