Tube Power Amps out there????

carnada · 09-16-2009, 07:54 PM

I know theres a couple of marshall ones but they are quiet expensive....is there other ones in the market?

jcmjmp · 09-16-2009, 08:46 PM

Mesa power amps are more plentyful in terms of tube power amps. If you lookout, you might find a good deal on them. The Peavey power amps are nice too but if you go for the 50/50, its going to be an el84 based amp, which is fine, but not ideal for British Heavy Metal of the 80's.
Marshall power amps are rare, but can be found on ebay if you're patient enough.

carnada · 09-16-2009, 09:50 PM

I have seen a couple of the 50/50 marshalls and 9200 poweramps, but dude they are like 1200 bucks USED

American Viking · 09-16-2009, 11:59 PM

My buddy picked up a Mesa/Boogie Simul-Class 2:Ninety a year or two ago and he got it for a pretty good price. It's got a space advantage over the Marshall power amps. Now, I've never been a fan of 6L6 tubes, but I heard side by side the same ENGL preamp running into a Simul-Class 2:Ninety and the other ENGL running to a Marshall EL34 100/100 Dual Mono-bloc. The Mesa sounded really good, surprisingly had a lot of mid-range that normally you would think the Marshall would be the contender on that one. I actually liked it a lot. It's 90w per side and the Marshall is 100w per side but that's such a small difference it's not even noticeable to the human ear. The Mesa has it's tubes mounted on their side so it turns a typical 4 space unit into a 2 space which is awesome. In rack gear it really helps to have stuff that's designed to save space.
These are the two rack power amps I've had the most experience with and would like to own either one. They're both really cool units. You can find the Mesa a lot cheaper I think. There are pros and cons about each model though.

One thing though, the Simul-Class 2:Ninety does not have a 16ohm out, I think it's only one 8ohm out and two 4ohm outs per side, so if you wanted to run a full stack you would have to get two 8ohm cabinets. If you use one cab it has to either be wired to 4ohms or 8ohms. The Marshalls usually have 16 or 8ohm switches which I think is more versatile. Either way, just do some research on whatever you buy and make an informed purchase. I'm actually going to read the manual online for the Simul-Class 2:Ninety since I've talked so much about it I'm curious to see what else it's capable of.

jcmjmp · 09-17-2009, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Viking

One thing though, the Simul-Class 2:Ninety does not have a 16ohm out, I think it's only one 8ohm out and two 4ohm outs per side, so if you wanted to run a full stack you would have to get two 8ohm cabinets. If you use one cab it has to either be wired to 4ohms or 8ohms. The Marshalls usually have 16 or 8ohm switches which I think is more versatile. Either way, just do some research on whatever you buy and make an informed purchase. I'm actually going to read the manual online for the Simul-Class 2:Ninety since I've talked so much about it I'm curious to see what else it's capable of.

The manual states that the 2:90 can run a 16ohm cab in the 8 ohm jacks. That's what I've done, but usually, I just run it stereo with a 1960a cab split in 8/8 ohms (with the little switch/connector gizmo on the back of the cab).

The 2:90 has a 1/2 drive switch, a Deep mode and Modern mode, all accessible via footswitch or a small, shorted 1/4 jack. If you run a TC-Electronics G-Major, you can control one of those options with the footswitch out.

I agree that the 2:90 has good mid range content, probably due to the simul class design.

A Mesa 50/50 can be had for cheap and they're rock solid amps too. I've seen them go regularly for approx. $600.00. Here's one on eBay at a 500 BIN price. Can't go wrong. That will give you a lot of clarity and thump, especially for a rack setup.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mesa-Boogie-50-5...#ht_500wt_1182

nofearfactor · 09-17-2009, 05:51 PM

When I first went to an all rack rig I used a Peavey Classic 120/120,then found a Mesa Strategy 400. Then I went to a Triaxis/2:90 system. None of them were what I was looking for. Until I got my first 9200.
Now I'm using nothing but 9200s for my power amps,all tubed with 6L6s(the amps come stock with 5881s). I love em. I've got 3 of them and havent given more than $500 when I bought them. Retubing added extra costs though.(The power amp in Marshalls lineup now,the EL34 100/100;they discontinued the 50/50;is expensive new and used).
I'm used to 6L6 power tubes from using Peavey 5150/6505s and Mesa MKIVs for many years. My first amps when I first started playing electric at 16 were a JMP-50 and then I 'graduated' to a JCM800. So Ive had my EL34 days. I just prefer a 6L6 for hardcore and modern metal. To each their own.
With using the 9200s I changed out the Vintage30s in my 1960 cabs for G12-75s too.

carnada · 09-17-2009, 06:13 PM

is the 9200 good for 80s metal?

nofearfactor · 09-18-2009, 02:16 AM

I dont play that style,but,with the right preamp I'm sure it would be great for that style. Maybe pair it with a JMP-1. I know Iron Maiden tours with them. Judas Priest has.

American Viking · 09-18-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nofearfactor

When I first went to an all rack rig I used a Peavey Classic 120/120,then found a Mesa Strategy 400. Then I went to a Triaxis/2:90 system. None of them were what I was looking for. Until I got my first 9200.
Now I'm using nothing but 9200s for my power amps,all tubed with 6L6s(the amps come stock with 5881s). I love em. I've got 3 of them and havent given more than $500 when I bought them. Retubing added extra costs though.(The power amp in Marshalls lineup now,the EL34 100/100;they discontinued the 50/50;is expensive new and used).
I'm used to 6L6 power tubes from using Peavey 5150/6505s and Mesa MKIVs for many years. My first amps when I first started playing electric at 16 were a JMP-50 and then I 'graduated' to a JCM800. So Ive had my EL34 days. I just prefer a 6L6 for hardcore and modern metal. To each their own.
With using the 9200s I changed out the Vintage30s in my 1960 cabs for G12-75s too.

what did you end up doing with the V30's?

carnada · 09-19-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nofearfactor

I dont play that style,but,with the right preamp I'm sure it would be great for that style. Maybe pair it with a JMP-1. I know Iron Maiden tours with them. Judas Priest has.

YUP, im saving for those 2 things, plus effects unit, and midi footswitcher! and power conditioner lol. the list just goes on!

lol why did I ask if the 9200 is good for 80s metal if friggin JANICK GERS of Iron Maiden uses it!!!

nofearfactor · 09-19-2009, 12:19 AM

Quote:

what did you end up doing with the V30's

2 are in my 1936 and 2 are in my Mesa recto oversized 2x12 cab. I love V30s when recording and using a head like my JCM800 or JMP-50...

jcmjmp · 09-19-2009, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnada

YUP, im saving for those 2 things, plus effects unit, and midi footswitcher! and power conditioner lol. the list just goes on!

lol why did I ask if the 9200 is good for 80s metal if friggin JANICK GERS of Iron Maiden uses it!!!

... you have to wonder why they even bother with those Marshall JFX-1 effects units. There's so much better units out there.

So I guess you want to buy the same gear that your favorite guitarist uses? Please, don't fall into that trap, and please tell me that Janick is not your fave guitarist! Adrian and Dave are where its at. Janick has no place in that band IMO.

Regardless, a Mesa 2:50 will serve you right and is smaller, as is the 2:90. That makes a big difference for the working guitarist.

carnada · 09-19-2009, 11:06 PM

they are all my fav guitarists man, I cant chose between all 3 of them. But since I play dave murray in my maiden tribute band, I would say dave is the one that appeals most to me?

Janick Gers is a wonderful guitarist. He has his own style, THATS why when Adrian left the band, they didnt wanna get a guy that could play just like him. They wanted to get someone with their own style and own character. AND the three guitar harmony is the biggest part of Iron Maiden right now, I mean thats what they are all about. LOTS of the songs that maiden wrote in the 80s have to be played with 3 guitars, and in the 80s they didnt have 3 guitarists, so their sound was never as full. Now with the three guitars they are just phenomenal

***Adwex*** · 09-20-2009, 09:36 AM

I suggest the Marshall 9005 power amp, it's 50/50, EL34...I've had one for a long time. I also had a 9200, and the 9005 sounded alot better to me. The 9005 is old, you may have trouble finding one, but I see them occasionally on ebay.

jcmjmp · 09-20-2009, 09:55 AM

Marshall 9100 stereo power amp on eBay.ca (item 280397173018 end time 20-Sep-09 21:22:41 EDT)

jcmjmp · 09-20-2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnada

they are all my fav guitarists man, I cant chose between all 3 of them. But since I play dave murray in my maiden tribute band, I would say dave is the one that appeals most to me?

Dave has great style. Must be fun to learn all those solos by him!
I saw Maiden in 1984 for the Powerslave tour. Awesome. That is one of my favorite albums ever, along with Live After Death.
This is the inlay I did on my guitar I built:
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL912.../374357887.jpg

carnada · 09-20-2009, 10:22 AM

I dont really learn the solos that much, I just study his technique and then I practically sound like him.

The other day me and my maiden tribute band made a little recording of the trooper. My friend's guitar sounds like poo poo, maybe because his amp wasnt cranked. Thats the reason why I dont like the TSL. And the other thing is that you can hear his guitar during the rhythm parts, and you cant hear mine

BUT I pop up during dave's solo. The first solo is my friend's solo, and the second one is mine. I try to play it like the somewhere back in time tour version, or from 1999 to nowdays. Download it here!

https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.p...7a1c51c01ddee8

***Adwex*** · 09-20-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnada

......... Download it here!

https://rcpt.yousendit.com/742181617...7a1c51c01ddee8

linky no worky.

carnada · 09-20-2009, 11:42 AM

I think this one works

https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.p...7a1c51c01ddee8

jcmjmp · 09-22-2009, 01:29 PM

Mesa 50/50, right here in Ottawa. Seems like a reasonable price.
Mesa Boogie Fifty Fifty stereo tube amp - Ottawa Musical Instruments For Sale - Kijiji Ottawa

carnada · 09-22-2009, 06:02 PM

damn, thats pretty tasty. But I think I need a preamp too lol

American Viking · 09-23-2009, 12:37 AM

Therein lies the drawback to rack gear. It's a never ending acquisition of expensive units. I've never seen anyone get away with just having a power amp and preamp.

If you're going to go rack and midi like you say you want to, be prepared to spend loads of cash even if equipping your rack with all used gear. A barebones rack is expensive just to start off. You have to figure, the rack case, wheels for the rack case, power conditioner, tuner, preamp, and power amp right off the bat.
On the upside, you buy all the good stuff to start off, you won't need to upgrade later. On the downside, I think since you are generally inexperienced with rack gear, you may purchase things you won't always be satisfied with. I think you should concentrate at the moment on getting great sounding head, cabinets and guitar. This way, you have a fully functional rig and you can buy and experiment with rack gear as you go and as you can afford it.
Just my two cents. I'm not opposed to rack gear, just stating it's costly, heavy, and bulky to carry around. I dig all rigs.

nofearfactor · 09-23-2009, 06:10 AM

Almost everything Viking just said is true.

My road to an all rack rig began with just using a small rack of signal processors running in my heads effects loops- a sonic maximizer and a noise reduction unit. I was running 2 heads/2 cabs ABY'd-one for clean,one for dirty-and then a floorboard of all stereo in/out effects pedals and then the small rack of processors in the heads effects loops. Then I added a power conditioner to the rack and a tuner- both units that I just had laying around that I had been using in my studio.
When Glen Drover/Megadeth,and Rob Arnold/Chimaira started using the new Digitech GSP1101 preamp/effects processor I got my hands on one and added it to my rack and loved it so much that I got rid of all of my floor effects pedals and the mess that goes along with using pedals. I had been very tired of the time it took me to get setup at gigs after the intial loadin and wanted to streamline my operation. The GSP1101 was also the first preamp/effects processor w/midi that I had found that you could totally integrate your present system with. You could use your heads preamp and power amp sections and just use the units effects section bypassing all of the other stuff like amp modeling,cab emulation,etcetc.
Then I experimented one day using one of my studio stereo power amps and tried out the modeling section. Once I dialed in a few tones that I liked and ran it all out to a stereo cab,I was blown away by the tone and just decided to completely do away with using heads-relying entirely on the processing units preamp and modeling sections for my tones. I ran the stereo signals out of the processing unit and thru my dual mono signal processors and then into and out of the stereo power amp into one cab on stereo. Then I tried it with 2 mono cabs,side by side. I was blown away some more.
Thats when I decided to go all rack and try to find all tube power amps for my power section. I first went thru a Mesa Strategy 400,and a Peavey Classic 120/120 for power amps. ThenI tried a MesaTriaxis/2:90 system. Still couldnt find what I was looking for in a power amp. Until I found one of the 9200s a friend had for sale. The 9200 fit perfectly,for me. Smooth,super wide headroom. Monster power. I bought as many as I could find.

I then spent about a month out in my 'mad scientist lab'(home rehearsal/recording space) programming my processors patches and tweaking everything in my rigs to make sure I had the right components that perfectly 'fit' each other. Pretty much only my bandmates,friends,the UPS and pizza delivery men were the only people to see me in that month. When I found out about the Fractal AX-FX preamp/effects processor I added it to my system to alternate with the GSP1101 and was even further blown away.

Now my rigs are solid and just the way I like em and they totally smoke alot of my old head/cab rigs. My loadins and loadouts are a breeze with way less to do. All I do now is roll in my rack and cabs,pull cables out of the back of the rack and plug stuff up,and then go get my guitars. Only thing on my floorboard in front of me is my wah and my preamp/effects processor midi controller I use to change the patches that I program into the processor. No one who has heard my rigs hasnt loved them. I get offers to sell one of them weekly. Ive actually built and sold a couple of rack rigs lately for a few local metal guitarists in my town recently who have converted to rack rigs after hearing my rig at shows we played together.

I play modern extreme metal in my main band and industrial/synth/digital metal in my side project. I prefer the sterile,flat EQ EMG81 active pickups in all of my gigging/recording guitars. A rig like mine with a computer driven stereo preamp generating digital modeled tones run into/out of a clean,extremely powerful,super wide head space,monster tube power amp into a couple of cabs is perfect for my style of techno metal music. But it may not be the right type of rig for a rock,blues,classic rock or old skool metal player that relies on the warmth of a tube amp with its preamp tubes and that beautiful power tube saturation cooking up those sweet tones. Tube heads are the only way to go though for tube preamp and tube power amp generated tones. Rack rigs IMO are too sterile and digital sounding for tube purists. But for live gigging theyre perfect. You could do like I do and save your tube heads for recording and use your rack rigs for live playing.

Rack rigs are fairly expensive to build at the onset and semi expensive to maintain- but only if you gig alot and need a backup rig or backup components for your rigs,like me. If you dont gig alot and your components needs arent that great then you can put one together fairly cheaply and maintain it pretty easy. The main things that go wrong are not just new tubes for the power amps,but signal processing components that break down and need to go in the shop to be repaired,etcetc. I'm a busy musician in 2 bands/projects so that means not only needing to have another complete backup rig but also having to have a few backups of the main signal processing units that I rely on the most for my sound processing just in case something goes out and has to go in the shop. Busy tech shops like the ones I go to do not repair your gear that day- unless you pay a double bench fee. So I just built 2 rigs exactly alike except they have different preamp/effect processors. My main gigging rig stays at my main bands rehearsal space,and the other is not only a backup that I keep at home in my home rehearsal/recording space but I also use it to rehearse/gig with my 2nd band/side project. I then keep one backup preamp/effects processor for each rig(I also have had to program their patches exactly like the ones they are backing up-and that is a painstaking process especially if I change something in one unit I have to go and change it in the backup) and then I like to have backups for each rig for these units: sonic maximizers and noise reduction units. That way,one goes out,I just have to slide another in its slot and plug it in in case something goes out-and they have,and they will again.

Some gear I will always buy new,never used- guitars and preamp/effects processors(I dont trust the used units to not have something wrong or their chips be bad or go bad). Other gear I almost always try to find and buy used- power conditioners,rack tuners,sonic maximizers,noise reduction units,and power amps.

And then you will need rack/road cases and they are not cheap if you get good solid road worthy gear that will stand up to alot of traveling. Look on EBay,Craigslist,etc for good used road cases.

jcmjmp · 09-23-2009, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Viking

Therein lies the drawback to rack gear. It's a never ending acquisition of expensive units. I've never seen anyone get away with just having a power amp and preamp.

If you're going to go rack and midi like you say you want to, be prepared to spend loads of cash even if equipping your rack with all used gear. A barebones rack is expensive just to start off. You have to figure, the rack case, wheels for the rack case, power conditioner, tuner, preamp, and power amp right off the bat.

[snip]

Just my two cents. I'm not opposed to rack gear, just stating it's costly, heavy, and bulky to carry around. I dig all rigs

My rack setup cost me less than $1500 but I got a couple of great deals. That includes a controller, G-Major, Gator case, JMP-1 and Mesa 2:90. The nice thing is that you can upgrade in steps. That setup has been stable and works well for me. I'm building a 2nd rack around an ADA MP-1 that I'm customizing for better mids.

A lot of people buy big cases and they just fill 'em in and they think they look cool. I don't care about looking cool. I care about flexibilty, tone and size. A lot of rack guys just go overboard 'cos they like blinking lights. Just looking at "nofearfactor"'s rig, I cringe. With just a G-Major, you can chuck the tuner, noise gate.

My rack setup is smaller than any other amp in a case to carry around and I don't have to lug a pedal board around. When I use a regular head live, the rack is my backup.

If you have pedals, you can skip on the effects processor and just use your pedals. It works really well. Without an effects processor, you could get your setup for approx $1200.00, including the case.

When you find a good piece, buy it. If you wait to find everything at once, you might end up paying more.

carnada · 09-23-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nofearfactor

ahhh fuck me! THATS FUCKING BEAUTIFUL! Hows that digitech preamp? is it a tube one? BTW judas priest uses those preamps

nofearfactor · 09-23-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

A lot of people buy big cases and they just fill 'em in and they think they look cool. I don't care about looking cool. I care about flexibilty, tone and size. A lot of rack guys just go overboard 'cos they like blinking lights. Just looking at "nofearfactor"'s rig, I cringe. With just a G-Major, you can chuck the tuner, noise gate

Actually I think my 8space is rather conservative compared to some of the guys on HRI( http://www.marshallforum.com/other-a...geracksinc.com ).

I started out with a 4space rack when I still used heads with just 2 units in it,then went to a 6space case when I went all rack with 5 units in it. When I started using the 9200 power amps I had to go to an 8space because the power amp takes up 3 spaces plus one below it for air circulation. I didnt just TRY to fill up space. With racks,its like adding on rooms to a house when you keep having kids. As your needs increase so does your space requirements.

I do have a tuner in both my $1500 Fractal AX-FX and my $450 Digitech GSP1101 preamp/effects processors-but I just like the Sabine tuner a whole lot better. Ive used it for many years in my studio,even when I didnt have it in a rack. I also have 'noise gates' in both of my processors,but, 'noise gates' and 'noise reduction units' are completely different animals. I dont much care for noise gates-they cut out alot of your delay cascades,etcetc whereas noise reduction units do just what theyre supposed to do- they eliminate unwanted noise.

I dont think I have one unit in my rack that is there just to 'fill up space' or for me to look at its 'blinking lights'.Lol. Everything in my rack is 100% there for a reason and fully functional and in use at all times. Furman-power;Sabine-tuner;Digitech or Fractal-preamp/effects processor;BBE-sonic maximizer;Rocktron-noise reduction;Marshall-power amp. Actually,once I got my rig tweaked ,I dont think I have turned even one knob in months and months of gigs. Havent needed to. And if a patch cable some how goes bad or comes unplugged on a side- the lights will not blink on that one side. Thus,the blinking lights themselves even actually serve a purpose...

Quote:

Hows that digitech preamp? is it a tube one

I like it just as much as my Fractal unit that is $1000 more expensive.
No,it isnt a tube unit and I'm glad it isnt.
Glen Drover sold me on the Digitech unit. Dweezil Zappa sold me on the Fractal unit.
Theyre both perfect for the type of music I play.

jcmjmp · 09-23-2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nofearfactor

Actually I think my 8space is rather conservative compared to some of the guys on HRI( http://www.marshallforum.com/other-a...geracksinc.com ).

haha! Definitely! Its all cool though. I like small racks (LOL!) but like 2 different sets of them.

The noise gate on the G-Major is real good though. I actually prefer it to the Hush.

carnada · 09-23-2009, 07:19 PM

where can I get the racks? not the actual guitar racks, but the racks that hold the racks?

nofearfactor · 09-23-2009, 11:07 PM

Quote:

racks that hold the racks?

Right now I'm using a Gator GRR-8L that I bought new from Musicians Friend. Look on the Bay first for used to save some cash.

Quote:

The noise gate on the G-Major is real good

My bandmate has a GMajor and he likes the gate in it better than the Boss NS-2 he was using on his floorboard.

Ive been using Hush's noise reduction units for so many years I guess I'm just married to them. I prefer to use the dual engine 2CXs which I have found to be the best there is. The earlier models were all just ok. The Pro series is in alot of racks. The new model SuperC is a piece of shat. And its ganged stereo instead of dual engine. Using a stereo rig I like to have different settings for each side just in case. The 2CXs are good units. I have several and buy as many as I can when I run across one. Theyve quieted down almost every noisy head Ive ever had. Actually,there is almost no noise at all in using a rack rig. The preamp/processors I use are almost noiseless and the 9200s you hardly hear anything out of them. If you look at the pic of my rack Ive got the levels on the Hush set at the minimum. I have wanted an ISP Decimator for awhile but they are kind of pricey. Ive been trying to get a free one and am still working on it. The guys who started ISP are the original engineers and founders of Rocktrons Hush systems.

American Viking · 09-24-2009, 01:06 AM

jmpjcm, nofearfactor
Those guys definitely made some good points. Those were great and informative posts about how you go about attaining and learning about gear. Rack gear is all about trials and tribulations. It's a great journey though, as is any attempt at a quest for the best tone! You could also run into similar situations with heads too, going through effects pedals and so forth. Each route has it's own pluses and minuses.

Looks like nofearfactor has an old school Sonic Maximizer. Those are pretty sweet and I would recommend them to anyone using a rack. I used to use the floor pedal one, it was great for a while but upon changing my setup it found it's way out of my rig and I've been getting our bass player to use it.

I don't know much about the Gmajor, I do know the Boss noise gates leave a lot to be desired. I can tell you this about gates, I'd stake my entire reputation on the ISP Decimator rack unit. They're the best I've ever heard. I've come across a few with some problems before but a stereo channel Decimator is unbeatable in the world of noise gates. I use the pedal version currently, the guitar player in our metal band has the rack unit. I'm hooked on those things. Although, we are also playing real high gain black metal. The same guitar player and I also do a punk/rock and roll band with alternate rigs/guitars and the noise gates don't have a place in the rock genre. If the Maiden style is what you're after you may not even need a noise gate at all. That of course should be an afterthought anyway.

The BBE Sonic Maximizer is always worth a shot, though. If diving into the rack world it never hurts to have one of those. Even if it doesn't find a spot in your permanent setup it's one of those pieces of gear you hold on to, it might always find a purpose later on.

09-16-2009, 07:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 1,185	Tube Power Amps out there???? I know theres a couple of marshall ones but they are quiet expensive....is there other ones in the market?

09-16-2009, 08:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
jcmjmp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,699	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? Mesa power amps are more plentyful in terms of tube power amps. If you lookout, you might find a good deal on them. The Peavey power amps are nice too but if you go for the 50/50, its going to be an el84 based amp, which is fine, but not ideal for British Heavy Metal of the 80's. Marshall power amps are rare, but can be found on ebay if you're patient enough.

09-16-2009, 09:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 1,185	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? I have seen a couple of the 50/50 marshalls and 9200 poweramps, but dude they are like 1200 bucks USED

09-16-2009, 11:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 2,027	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? My buddy picked up a Mesa/Boogie Simul-Class 2:Ninety a year or two ago and he got it for a pretty good price. It's got a space advantage over the Marshall power amps. Now, I've never been a fan of 6L6 tubes, but I heard side by side the same ENGL preamp running into a Simul-Class 2:Ninety and the other ENGL running to a Marshall EL34 100/100 Dual Mono-bloc. The Mesa sounded really good, surprisingly had a lot of mid-range that normally you would think the Marshall would be the contender on that one. I actually liked it a lot. It's 90w per side and the Marshall is 100w per side but that's such a small difference it's not even noticeable to the human ear. The Mesa has it's tubes mounted on their side so it turns a typical 4 space unit into a 2 space which is awesome. In rack gear it really helps to have stuff that's designed to save space. These are the two rack power amps I've had the most experience with and would like to own either one. They're both really cool units. You can find the Mesa a lot cheaper I think. There are pros and cons about each model though. One thing though, the Simul-Class 2:Ninety does not have a 16ohm out, I think it's only one 8ohm out and two 4ohm outs per side, so if you wanted to run a full stack you would have to get two 8ohm cabinets. If you use one cab it has to either be wired to 4ohms or 8ohms. The Marshalls usually have 16 or 8ohm switches which I think is more versatile. Either way, just do some research on whatever you buy and make an informed purchase. I'm actually going to read the manual online for the Simul-Class 2:Ninety since I've talked so much about it I'm curious to see what else it's capable of. __________________ Transformers inside amplifiers were not originally designed to be in there, and the tube was not created for the guitar amp. ANY recommended idle current is a guideline and in no way a necessary requirement. There is no skeleton key for any tube amp.

09-17-2009, 05:51 PM	#6 (permalink)
nofearfactor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: cold,dark... Posts: 227	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? When I first went to an all rack rig I used a Peavey Classic 120/120,then found a Mesa Strategy 400. Then I went to a Triaxis/2:90 system. None of them were what I was looking for. Until I got my first 9200. Now I'm using nothing but 9200s for my power amps,all tubed with 6L6s(the amps come stock with 5881s). I love em. I've got 3 of them and havent given more than $500 when I bought them. Retubing added extra costs though.(The power amp in Marshalls lineup now,the EL34 100/100;they discontinued the 50/50;is expensive new and used). I'm used to 6L6 power tubes from using Peavey 5150/6505s and Mesa MKIVs for many years. My first amps when I first started playing electric at 16 were a JMP-50 and then I 'graduated' to a JCM800. So Ive had my EL34 days. I just prefer a 6L6 for hardcore and modern metal. To each their own. With using the 9200s I changed out the Vintage30s in my 1960 cabs for G12-75s too. __________________ myspace- http://www.myspace.com/nofearfactor some gear pics- http://community.webshots.com/album/...ecurity=QbSaeN

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09-17-2009, 06:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 1,185	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? is the 9200 good for 80s metal?

09-18-2009, 02:16 AM	#8 (permalink)
nofearfactor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: cold,dark... Posts: 227	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? I dont play that style,but,with the right preamp I'm sure it would be great for that style. Maybe pair it with a JMP-1. I know Iron Maiden tours with them. Judas Priest has. __________________ myspace- http://www.myspace.com/nofearfactor some gear pics- http://community.webshots.com/album/...ecurity=QbSaeN

09-19-2009, 11:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 1,185	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? they are all my fav guitarists man, I cant chose between all 3 of them. But since I play dave murray in my maiden tribute band, I would say dave is the one that appeals most to me? Janick Gers is a wonderful guitarist. He has his own style, THATS why when Adrian left the band, they didnt wanna get a guy that could play just like him. They wanted to get someone with their own style and own character. AND the three guitar harmony is the biggest part of Iron Maiden right now, I mean thats what they are all about. LOTS of the songs that maiden wrote in the 80s have to be played with 3 guitars, and in the 80s they didnt have 3 guitarists, so their sound was never as full. Now with the three guitars they are just phenomenal

09-20-2009, 09:36 AM	#14 (permalink)
*Adwex* Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,203	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? I suggest the Marshall 9005 power amp, it's 50/50, EL34...I've had one for a long time. I also had a 9200, and the 9005 sounded alot better to me. The 9005 is old, you may have trouble finding one, but I see them occasionally on ebay. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/MarshallLesPaul

09-20-2009, 09:55 AM	#15 (permalink)
jcmjmp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,699	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? Marshall 9100 stereo power amp on eBay.ca (item 280397173018 end time 20-Sep-09 21:22:41 EDT)

09-20-2009, 10:22 AM	#17 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 1,185	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? I dont really learn the solos that much, I just study his technique and then I practically sound like him. The other day me and my maiden tribute band made a little recording of the trooper. My friend's guitar sounds like poo poo, maybe because his amp wasnt cranked. Thats the reason why I dont like the TSL. And the other thing is that you can hear his guitar during the rhythm parts, and you cant hear mine BUT I pop up during dave's solo. The first solo is my friend's solo, and the second one is mine. I try to play it like the somewhere back in time tour version, or from 1999 to nowdays. Download it here! https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.p...7a1c51c01ddee8 Last edited by carnada; 09-20-2009 at 11:42 AM.

09-20-2009, 11:42 AM	#19 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 1,185	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? I think this one works https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.p...7a1c51c01ddee8

09-22-2009, 01:29 PM	#20 (permalink)
jcmjmp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,699	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? Mesa 50/50, right here in Ottawa. Seems like a reasonable price. Mesa Boogie Fifty Fifty stereo tube amp - Ottawa Musical Instruments For Sale - Kijiji Ottawa

09-22-2009, 06:02 PM	#21 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 1,185	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? damn, thats pretty tasty. But I think I need a preamp too lol

09-23-2009, 12:37 AM	#22 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 2,027	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? Therein lies the drawback to rack gear. It's a never ending acquisition of expensive units. I've never seen anyone get away with just having a power amp and preamp. If you're going to go rack and midi like you say you want to, be prepared to spend loads of cash even if equipping your rack with all used gear. A barebones rack is expensive just to start off. You have to figure, the rack case, wheels for the rack case, power conditioner, tuner, preamp, and power amp right off the bat. On the upside, you buy all the good stuff to start off, you won't need to upgrade later. On the downside, I think since you are generally inexperienced with rack gear, you may purchase things you won't always be satisfied with. I think you should concentrate at the moment on getting great sounding head, cabinets and guitar. This way, you have a fully functional rig and you can buy and experiment with rack gear as you go and as you can afford it. Just my two cents. I'm not opposed to rack gear, just stating it's costly, heavy, and bulky to carry around. I dig all rigs. __________________ Transformers inside amplifiers were not originally designed to be in there, and the tube was not created for the guitar amp. ANY recommended idle current is a guideline and in no way a necessary requirement. There is no skeleton key for any tube amp.

09-23-2009, 06:10 AM	#23 (permalink)
nofearfactor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: cold,dark... Posts: 227	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? Almost everything Viking just said is true. My road to an all rack rig began with just using a small rack of signal processors running in my heads effects loops- a sonic maximizer and a noise reduction unit. I was running 2 heads/2 cabs ABY'd-one for clean,one for dirty-and then a floorboard of all stereo in/out effects pedals and then the small rack of processors in the heads effects loops. Then I added a power conditioner to the rack and a tuner- both units that I just had laying around that I had been using in my studio. When Glen Drover/Megadeth,and Rob Arnold/Chimaira started using the new Digitech GSP1101 preamp/effects processor I got my hands on one and added it to my rack and loved it so much that I got rid of all of my floor effects pedals and the mess that goes along with using pedals. I had been very tired of the time it took me to get setup at gigs after the intial loadin and wanted to streamline my operation. The GSP1101 was also the first preamp/effects processor w/midi that I had found that you could totally integrate your present system with. You could use your heads preamp and power amp sections and just use the units effects section bypassing all of the other stuff like amp modeling,cab emulation,etcetc. Then I experimented one day using one of my studio stereo power amps and tried out the modeling section. Once I dialed in a few tones that I liked and ran it all out to a stereo cab,I was blown away by the tone and just decided to completely do away with using heads-relying entirely on the processing units preamp and modeling sections for my tones. I ran the stereo signals out of the processing unit and thru my dual mono signal processors and then into and out of the stereo power amp into one cab on stereo. Then I tried it with 2 mono cabs,side by side. I was blown away some more. Thats when I decided to go all rack and try to find all tube power amps for my power section. I first went thru a Mesa Strategy 400,and a Peavey Classic 120/120 for power amps. ThenI tried a MesaTriaxis/2:90 system. Still couldnt find what I was looking for in a power amp. Until I found one of the 9200s a friend had for sale. The 9200 fit perfectly,for me. Smooth,super wide headroom. Monster power. I bought as many as I could find. I then spent about a month out in my 'mad scientist lab'(home rehearsal/recording space) programming my processors patches and tweaking everything in my rigs to make sure I had the right components that perfectly 'fit' each other. Pretty much only my bandmates,friends,the UPS and pizza delivery men were the only people to see me in that month. When I found out about the Fractal AX-FX preamp/effects processor I added it to my system to alternate with the GSP1101 and was even further blown away. Now my rigs are solid and just the way I like em and they totally smoke alot of my old head/cab rigs. My loadins and loadouts are a breeze with way less to do. All I do now is roll in my rack and cabs,pull cables out of the back of the rack and plug stuff up,and then go get my guitars. Only thing on my floorboard in front of me is my wah and my preamp/effects processor midi controller I use to change the patches that I program into the processor. No one who has heard my rigs hasnt loved them. I get offers to sell one of them weekly. Ive actually built and sold a couple of rack rigs lately for a few local metal guitarists in my town recently who have converted to rack rigs after hearing my rig at shows we played together. I play modern extreme metal in my main band and industrial/synth/digital metal in my side project. I prefer the sterile,flat EQ EMG81 active pickups in all of my gigging/recording guitars. A rig like mine with a computer driven stereo preamp generating digital modeled tones run into/out of a clean,extremely powerful,super wide head space,monster tube power amp into a couple of cabs is perfect for my style of techno metal music. But it may not be the right type of rig for a rock,blues,classic rock or old skool metal player that relies on the warmth of a tube amp with its preamp tubes and that beautiful power tube saturation cooking up those sweet tones. Tube heads are the only way to go though for tube preamp and tube power amp generated tones. Rack rigs IMO are too sterile and digital sounding for tube purists. But for live gigging theyre perfect. You could do like I do and save your tube heads for recording and use your rack rigs for live playing. Rack rigs are fairly expensive to build at the onset and semi expensive to maintain- but only if you gig alot and need a backup rig or backup components for your rigs,like me. If you dont gig alot and your components needs arent that great then you can put one together fairly cheaply and maintain it pretty easy. The main things that go wrong are not just new tubes for the power amps,but signal processing components that break down and need to go in the shop to be repaired,etcetc. I'm a busy musician in 2 bands/projects so that means not only needing to have another complete backup rig but also having to have a few backups of the main signal processing units that I rely on the most for my sound processing just in case something goes out and has to go in the shop. Busy tech shops like the ones I go to do not repair your gear that day- unless you pay a double bench fee. So I just built 2 rigs exactly alike except they have different preamp/effect processors. My main gigging rig stays at my main bands rehearsal space,and the other is not only a backup that I keep at home in my home rehearsal/recording space but I also use it to rehearse/gig with my 2nd band/side project. I then keep one backup preamp/effects processor for each rig(I also have had to program their patches exactly like the ones they are backing up-and that is a painstaking process especially if I change something in one unit I have to go and change it in the backup) and then I like to have backups for each rig for these units: sonic maximizers and noise reduction units. That way,one goes out,I just have to slide another in its slot and plug it in in case something goes out-and they have,and they will again. Some gear I will always buy new,never used- guitars and preamp/effects processors(I dont trust the used units to not have something wrong or their chips be bad or go bad). Other gear I almost always try to find and buy used- power conditioners,rack tuners,sonic maximizers,noise reduction units,and power amps. And then you will need rack/road cases and they are not cheap if you get good solid road worthy gear that will stand up to alot of traveling. Look on EBay,Craigslist,etc for good used road cases. __________________ myspace- http://www.myspace.com/nofearfactor some gear pics- http://community.webshots.com/album/...ecurity=QbSaeN Last edited by nofearfactor; 09-24-2009 at 01:57 AM.

09-23-2009, 07:19 PM	#28 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 1,185	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? where can I get the racks? not the actual guitar racks, but the racks that hold the racks?

09-24-2009, 01:06 AM	#30 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 2,027	Re: Tube Power Amps out there???? jmpjcm, nofearfactor Those guys definitely made some good points. Those were great and informative posts about how you go about attaining and learning about gear. Rack gear is all about trials and tribulations. It's a great journey though, as is any attempt at a quest for the best tone! You could also run into similar situations with heads too, going through effects pedals and so forth. Each route has it's own pluses and minuses. Looks like nofearfactor has an old school Sonic Maximizer. Those are pretty sweet and I would recommend them to anyone using a rack. I used to use the floor pedal one, it was great for a while but upon changing my setup it found it's way out of my rig and I've been getting our bass player to use it. I don't know much about the Gmajor, I do know the Boss noise gates leave a lot to be desired. I can tell you this about gates, I'd stake my entire reputation on the ISP Decimator rack unit. They're the best I've ever heard. I've come across a few with some problems before but a stereo channel Decimator is unbeatable in the world of noise gates. I use the pedal version currently, the guitar player in our metal band has the rack unit. I'm hooked on those things. Although, we are also playing real high gain black metal. The same guitar player and I also do a punk/rock and roll band with alternate rigs/guitars and the noise gates don't have a place in the rock genre. If the Maiden style is what you're after you may not even need a noise gate at all. That of course should be an afterthought anyway. The BBE Sonic Maximizer is always worth a shot, though. If diving into the rack world it never hurts to have one of those. Even if it doesn't find a spot in your permanent setup it's one of those pieces of gear you hold on to, it might always find a purpose later on. __________________ Transformers inside amplifiers were not originally designed to be in there, and the tube was not created for the guitar amp. ANY recommended idle current is a guideline and in no way a necessary requirement. There is no skeleton key for any tube amp.

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