Attenuator - Any recommendation?

Marshallguy · 09-09-2006, 04:48 PM

What attenuator would you recommend for a 100w non-mv Marshall?

superleadfixer · 09-09-2006, 04:53 PM

Hotplate is nice because it is relatively safe and has no electrical cord so less mess when giging etc...sounds very good up to minus 8db, lower then that no attenuator will sound very good.......

Weber has one real nice also.......

Marshallguy · 09-09-2006, 05:05 PM

What about using some acoustic Foam covering all the cab in addition to the attenuator? Would it affect the tone?

superleadfixer · 09-09-2006, 05:31 PM

Yes it might effect the tone, I wouldn't do a perminent foam job so you can change the it modify it and see what is your preferences. You'll have to try and see!!!

What do you want to optain with the foam exactly? Less high ends?

Hell_Tanner · 09-09-2006, 07:40 PM

What about the Marshall power brake?

I've never been interested in an attenuator before but came to consider buying one....maybe, BIG maybe. Actually, I'm a bit put off by the price of those things...

superleadfixer · 09-09-2006, 10:37 PM

I don't like the power brake personally, not as transparent as the hotplate...but then at that point it is very subjective, It's only my opinion, some like it better some don't....

One quick fix is to add a master volume to your amp, but again that involve modding a stock Marshall, not a good idea for maitaining the amp's value, some even sees it as crime to mod an old Marshall...lol

Some other ways like power scaling is really nice, but the same problem applies here, you have to mod the amp a little.....etc!!

Hell_Tanner · 09-10-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superleadfixer

One quick fix is to add a master volume to your amp, but again that involve modding a stock Marshall, not a good idea for maitaining the amp's value, some even sees it as crime to mod an old Marshall...lol

Mmmh, my amp is a JCM800 (with a master volume then) so do you think an attenuator would be of any use for me?

***Guv'nor*** · 09-10-2006, 10:51 AM

I added a master volume in my '67 Bassman and cannot be happier.

Now the vol. knob of the bass channel is the master volume and the vol. knob of the normal channel controls both so it can be undone in any moment. No holes, no anything.

I would never sell it in any case... so I do not care about the value in terms of money.

superleadfixer · 09-10-2006, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell_Tanner

Quote:

Originally Posted by superleadfixer

One quick fix is to add a master volume to your amp, but again that involve modding a stock Marshall, not a good idea for maitaining the amp's value, some even sees it as crime to mod an old Marshall...lol

Mmmh, my amp is a JCM800 (with a master volume then) so do you think an attenuator would be of any use for me?

If you A/B (compare) a MV amp with a non master volume amp (let say the same amp got mod for a MV...), the tone difference is the MV amp will be fuzzier then the non MV fully dimed, you are missing the power stage distortion with the MV amp until you fully crank it then it is almost back to its NON MV tone but not fully (maybe 90-95%), so there is a lost somewhere but not by very much.....In the other hand if you use an attenuator with your non MV amp you will get all the power stages distortion all the time BUT those attenuator sounds like crap when you play at living room level (minus 16db like the hotplate can do), they are tone suckers at that level and your fuzziness with the MV amp might be better in most cases, if you use an attenuator but just to reduce a little, up to minus 4db or 8db then they are worth it but it is still damn loud....

So you get the best of both worlds here, the best advantage a MV amp will give you is tube life as you mostly play at low level, your tubes should last very long, if you fully crank your amp all the time and attenuate it your tubes are getting beat up real hard at the time and you will have to change them more often unless you are using NOS tubes but then again at the price those tubes sell for you don't want to kill them to fast....

I personnaly prefer a non MV amp plexi with a hotplate for attenuation a little.......

They are other mods you can add to your amp for more gain, like putting in cascade you pre amp section added to the MV then you'll have a monster gain/distortion amp, very easy mod to do and no drilling or anything, easy reversable.......it the one wire mod......For those who would like that mod added to there amp I could walk you through it very easy, get yourseft a 1meg resistor 1/2 watt is way ok, a foot of 20 gauge wire, a jack (with no wire attached to it), and a solder gun or even clips will work..........you will have to swap a few wires around and your done.... :wink:

superleadfixer · 09-10-2006, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guv'nor

I added a master volume in my '67 Bassman and cannot be happier.

Now the vol. knob of the bass channel is the master volume and the vol. knob of the normal channel controls both so it can be undone in any moment. No holes, no anything.

I would never sell it in any case... so I do not care about the value in terms of money.

Yeah they are ways to do it right, that's the proper way here.... :wink:

the dug · 09-10-2006, 03:55 PM

Ive tried the weber mass it was ok, but I really like my THD, it seems more transparent to me.And yeah any attenuation under-8 sounds crappy I think.Also It might be my ears but I think even at 0 both the weber and THD "suck" some tone, but like I said the THD seems more transparent.
You can score 16 ohm THD's used on evilbay for around 200.00 shipped, so the price is fairly close to the weber stuff if your ok with used.

***Guv'nor*** · 09-10-2006, 05:07 PM

I would personally choose a master volume instead of an attenuator because most of the time we run our amps at about 10 or 15% of its power (specially 100watters) and there's no attenuator that sounds good at that levels.

If you play in pubs you're ok with 25watts and Unless you play arenas you'll never need more than 50watts. With a 100 watts I definitely prefere a master volume.

superleadfixer · 09-10-2006, 06:04 PM

Forgot to say, stay away from resistive power soak type attenuator such as the Tom Sholtz (Boston guy...) Power Soak they are dangerous for your OT and tubes, more chance to blow your amp....

Inductive power soak i.e. Marshall Power Brake, THD Hotplate, Weber MASS, etc....are much safer but still not 100%

Hell_Tanner · 09-11-2006, 08:11 PM

Thanx for all the words of wisdom superleadfixer!

sickboy79 · 09-12-2006, 08:21 PM

Own both the Hot Plate and Dr Z Airbrake. I much more prefer the Hot Plate. I don't have any experience with any others.

jan · 09-13-2006, 12:48 PM

I've been happy with my THD Hotplate. I never go above (below) -8 db.

Outlaw1969 · 09-16-2006, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sickboy79

Own both the Hot Plate and Dr Z Airbrake. I much more prefer the Hot Plate. I don't have any experience with any others.

Sick, I have owned both and went in the totally opposite direction. I thought that the THD sucked so much of my high gain tone, that I got rid of it. I bought the Airbrake as a last resort before I would allow myself to spend the big bucks on the Ultimate Attenuator, but was so happy that I stopped my search there, and never bought the Ultimate.

What kind of Marshall are you using right now? I seem to remember from another Forum, that it was possibly a 71' or 73'- 50 watt. Is that correct?

sickboy79 · 09-19-2006, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outlaw1969

Quote:

Originally Posted by sickboy79

Own both the Hot Plate and Dr Z Airbrake. I much more prefer the Hot Plate. I don't have any experience with any others.

Sick, I have owned both and went in the totally opposite direction. I thought that the THD sucked so much of my high gain tone, that I got rid of it. I bought the Airbrake as a last resort before I would allow myself to spend the big bucks on the Ultimate Attenuator, but was so happy that I stopped my search there, and never bought the Ultimate.

What kind of Marshall are you using right now? I seem to remember from another Forum, that it was possibly a 71' or 73'- 50 watt. Is that correct?

Yeah, I guess our ears are all different. At moderate attenuation levels....I'd say they are about equal tone wise. The Air Brake is cool because you get those finer levels of attenuation. But, I found beyond the -8dB mark, the Hot Plate was better to my ears.

I've got a few different Marshalls, 71 50w small box, 73 Super Bass, 79 JMP 50w, 87 Silver Jub 2553 small box 50w head, 97 100w Plexi RI, and a 01 DSL 50. All great stuff.

JLH · 07-21-2007, 06:57 PM

If its not late you should try the ultimate attenuator, Mark Gregg, it is very transparent

lpaholic59Don · 09-18-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshallguy

What attenuator would you recommend for a 100w non-mv Marshall?

I have seen the Webber MASS in action and used it on a Fender Bassman re issue Seems to work well and hold up

Adwex · 09-20-2007, 03:08 PM

I don't have one....yet....but I've read many debates, and based on the majority, I'm going to get a THD Hotplate for the 100W Jubilee I just got recently. I know a guy who has an Ultimate, and I heard it on his nonMV Marshall clone...sounded good, but he says they're about $700!!!

Keep this in mind....the Hotplate is not impedance switchable, I think the Ultimate is.

lpaholic59Don · 09-22-2007, 04:36 PM

The Weber Mass IS impedence switchable and if you have a Bassman, Can be ordered with the lower than normal Impedence

Troubleman · 11-21-2007, 10:15 AM

As long as it IS NOT a Scholz or an AlTair Power Soak.... (don't get me started)....

For my Jubilee at least, an AirBreak seems to work well. For my Studio 15, a HotPlate works better. I think it depends upon the amp

jb

jim · 11-21-2007, 08:55 PM

I have a Hotplate and it seems pretty good and has some nice features (deep and bright switches, noise reduction, no power lead, line out).

I'd echo what the others said about them: they go down to infinity but only sound good down to -8dbs, below that and your sound starts to get very thin. Bear in mind that -8 is nowhere near bedroom level on even a modest tube amp, so I don't think they help with getting a good sound at practice level, rather, they enable you to play with a fully cranked sound at a rehearsal or jamming volume.

matjoliver · 11-22-2007, 04:17 PM

Hi, check out my thread here - just got a Hotplate and I use it so far mostly at -16db with the variable control about half way. Well chuffed..

JTM45 finally cranked (via Hotplate)

5er driver · 12-22-2007, 05:11 AM

I use a THD Hot Plate @ -8 db with my 100 watt SL-X and 2 power tubes pulled. I leave the amp's 1/2 power switch set on 'High' in the pentode mode.

stryker59 · 01-29-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5er driver

I use a THD Hot Plate @ -8 db with my 100 watt SL-X and 2 power tubes pulled. I leave the amp's 1/2 power switch set on 'High' in the pentode mode.

i read somewhere that pulling power tubes to reduce power wasnt good for the amp! i also use the hot plate with my jvm and i love it! i have two masters volumes on the jvm and they are footswitchable. one is halfway up and the other is dimed.

5er driver · 01-30-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stryker59

i read somewhere that pulling power tubes to reduce power wasnt good for the amp! i also use the hot plate with my jvm and i love it! i have two masters volumes on the jvm and they are footswitchable. one is halfway up and the other is dimed.

Stryker, I've read the contrary in other forums and that pulling tubes actually puts less stress on the output tranny. I have pulled tubes from both my Fender Twin and my Marshall SL-X with no ill effects. The amp's output impedence must be changed accordingly. If the amp is looking for a 16 ohm load with 4 tubes, it will be looking for 32 ohms with 2 tubes. In the case of my Marshall amp and a 16 ohm cabinet, I switched the amp impedence selector from 16 ohms (which became 32 ohms with 2 tubes pulled) to 8 ohms (which became 16 ohms with 2 tubes pulled).

And God created Rock. And He saw that it was Good.

drybone · 01-30-2008, 05:05 PM

What about the good old days when you faced your cabinet to the wall, covered it with a moving blanket, cut a slit in the blanket and shoved your mike in? Did I just show my age?

5er driver · 01-30-2008, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drybone

What about the good old days when you faced your cabinet to the wall, covered it with a moving blanket, cut a slit in the blanket and shoved your mike in? Did I just show my age?

Drybone - as musicians we will do anything and everything to get "that tone".
I've even laid my cabinet face down on a rug propped up about 4 inches on one side to let some sound out. My wife walked in, looked at the cabinet in the middle of the floor and asked "what's wrong with it?" And when I started to explain that I just wanted to try.........she walked out shaking her head and mumbled something about "growing up".

09-09-2006, 04:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
Marshallguy Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 20	Attenuator - Any recommendation? What attenuator would you recommend for a 100w non-mv Marshall?

09-09-2006, 04:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
superleadfixer Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: CANADA Posts: 99	Hotplate is nice because it is relatively safe and has no electrical cord so less mess when giging etc...sounds very good up to minus 8db, lower then that no attenuator will sound very good....... Weber has one real nice also....... __________________ I\'ll mod your SLP (or anyother...) Marshall to REAL plexi specifications/with real replica trannies/etc... http://myspace-332.vo.llnwd.net/0145...52020332_l.jpg

09-09-2006, 05:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
superleadfixer Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: CANADA Posts: 99	Yes it might effect the tone, I wouldn't do a perminent foam job so you can change the it modify it and see what is your preferences. You'll have to try and see!!! What do you want to optain with the foam exactly? Less high ends? __________________ I\'ll mod your SLP (or anyother...) Marshall to REAL plexi specifications/with real replica trannies/etc... http://myspace-332.vo.llnwd.net/0145...52020332_l.jpg

09-09-2006, 10:37 PM	#6 (permalink)
superleadfixer Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: CANADA Posts: 99	I don't like the power brake personally, not as transparent as the hotplate...but then at that point it is very subjective, It's only my opinion, some like it better some don't.... One quick fix is to add a master volume to your amp, but again that involve modding a stock Marshall, not a good idea for maitaining the amp's value, some even sees it as crime to mod an old Marshall...lol Some other ways like power scaling is really nice, but the same problem applies here, you have to mod the amp a little.....etc!! __________________ I\'ll mod your SLP (or anyother...) Marshall to REAL plexi specifications/with real replica trannies/etc... http://myspace-332.vo.llnwd.net/0145...52020332_l.jpg

09-10-2006, 06:04 PM	#13 (permalink)
superleadfixer Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: CANADA Posts: 99	Forgot to say, stay away from resistive power soak type attenuator such as the Tom Sholtz (Boston guy...) Power Soak they are dangerous for your OT and tubes, more chance to blow your amp.... Inductive power soak i.e. Marshall Power Brake, THD Hotplate, Weber MASS, etc....are much safer but still not 100% __________________ I\'ll mod your SLP (or anyother...) Marshall to REAL plexi specifications/with real replica trannies/etc... http://myspace-332.vo.llnwd.net/0145...52020332_l.jpg

09-09-2006, 05:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
Marshallguy Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 20	What about using some acoustic Foam covering all the cab in addition to the attenuator? Would it affect the tone?

09-09-2006, 07:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
Hell_Tanner Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 37	What about the Marshall power brake? I've never been interested in an attenuator before but came to consider buying one....maybe, BIG maybe. Actually, I'm a bit put off by the price of those things...

09-10-2006, 10:51 AM	#8 (permalink)
*Guv'nor* Moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 243	I added a master volume in my '67 Bassman and cannot be happier. Now the vol. knob of the bass channel is the master volume and the vol. knob of the normal channel controls both so it can be undone in any moment. No holes, no anything. I would never sell it in any case... so I do not care about the value in terms of money.

09-10-2006, 03:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
the dug Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 21	Ive tried the weber mass it was ok, but I really like my THD, it seems more transparent to me.And yeah any attenuation under-8 sounds crappy I think.Also It might be my ears but I think even at 0 both the weber and THD "suck" some tone, but like I said the THD seems more transparent. You can score 16 ohm THD's used on evilbay for around 200.00 shipped, so the price is fairly close to the weber stuff if your ok with used.

09-10-2006, 05:07 PM	#12 (permalink)
*Guv'nor* Moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 243	I would personally choose a master volume instead of an attenuator because most of the time we run our amps at about 10 or 15% of its power (specially 100watters) and there's no attenuator that sounds good at that levels. If you play in pubs you're ok with 25watts and Unless you play arenas you'll never need more than 50watts. With a 100 watts I definitely prefere a master volume.

09-11-2006, 08:11 PM	#14 (permalink)
Hell_Tanner Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 37	Thanx for all the words of wisdom superleadfixer!

09-12-2006, 08:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
sickboy79 Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 33	Own both the Hot Plate and Dr Z Airbrake. I much more prefer the Hot Plate. I don't have any experience with any others.

09-13-2006, 12:48 PM	#16 (permalink)
jan Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3	I've been happy with my THD Hotplate. I never go above (below) -8 db.

07-21-2007, 06:57 PM	#19 (permalink)
JLH Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 30	Re: Attenuator - Any recommendation? If its not late you should try the ultimate attenuator, Mark Gregg, it is very transparent

09-20-2007, 03:08 PM	#21 (permalink)
Adwex Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 720	Re: Attenuator - Any recommendation? I don't have one....yet....but I've read many debates, and based on the majority, I'm going to get a THD Hotplate for the 100W Jubilee I just got recently. I know a guy who has an Ultimate, and I heard it on his nonMV Marshall clone...sounded good, but he says they're about $700!!! Keep this in mind....the Hotplate is not impedance switchable, I think the Ultimate is. __________________ www.myspace.com/rockerlivemusic

09-22-2007, 04:36 PM	#22 (permalink)
lpaholic59Don Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Smoky Mountains Posts: 55	Re: Attenuator - Any recommendation? The Weber Mass IS impedence switchable and if you have a Bassman, Can be ordered with the lower than normal Impedence __________________ IF it dont Glow, It dont go ! Tubes, valves, Glass, all else is dead grass

11-21-2007, 10:15 AM	#23 (permalink)
Troubleman Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 5	Re: Attenuator - Any recommendation? As long as it IS NOT a Scholz or an AlTair Power Soak.... (don't get me started).... For my Jubilee at least, an AirBreak seems to work well. For my Studio 15, a HotPlate works better. I think it depends upon the amp jb

11-21-2007, 08:55 PM	#24 (permalink)
jim Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3	Re: Attenuator - Any recommendation? I have a Hotplate and it seems pretty good and has some nice features (deep and bright switches, noise reduction, no power lead, line out). I'd echo what the others said about them: they go down to infinity but only sound good down to -8dbs, below that and your sound starts to get very thin. Bear in mind that -8 is nowhere near bedroom level on even a modest tube amp, so I don't think they help with getting a good sound at practice level, rather, they enable you to play with a fully cranked sound at a rehearsal or jamming volume.

11-22-2007, 04:17 PM	#25 (permalink)
matjoliver Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 15	Re: Attenuator - Any recommendation? Hi, check out my thread here - just got a Hotplate and I use it so far mostly at -16db with the variable control about half way. Well chuffed.. JTM45 finally cranked (via Hotplate)

12-22-2007, 05:11 AM	#26 (permalink)
5er driver Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 79	Re: Attenuator - Any recommendation? I use a THD Hot Plate @ -8 db with my 100 watt SL-X and 2 power tubes pulled. I leave the amp's 1/2 power switch set on 'High' in the pentode mode. __________________ The 5er Driver "Plug that beotch in an' let her rip!"

01-30-2008, 05:05 PM	#29 (permalink)
drybone Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3	Re: Attenuator - Any recommendation? What about the good old days when you faced your cabinet to the wall, covered it with a moving blanket, cut a slit in the blanket and shoved your mike in? Did I just show my age?