Help quick Im fucking worried!

carnada · 10-27-2009, 10:47 PM

okay so this is not marshall at all, in fact....its mesa boogie.

So I was gettin my new mesa boogie 50 50 rack power amp in the rack, and when I plugged it in to the power conditioner, I saw this sort of white light coming out of some place of my rack....like a little spark, but im not sure where it came from. And it also made a little bit of a pop. Im not sure if its my power amp or something. I also DID NOT smell any burning smell or anything like that. AND I NOTICED that when I was carrying the power amp, by mistake...I turned on the power button.......so yeah, you know what im talking about. and it wasnt plugged in to a cab or speaker

Is there any way I can test it without plugging it in to a speaker? because my cab is not here! and im really worriieeddd. I bought it like 3 hours ago, and I dont know what to do to see if it works

jcmjmp · 10-27-2009, 10:58 PM

Some older preamp tubes have a white flash when you apply power to them. With newer tubes, I know that the Ei tubes do this. Its normal, if that's what you saw.

HOT TUBES 70 · 10-27-2009, 11:01 PM

dude , thats not good !!!

carnada · 10-27-2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmjmp

Some older preamp tubes have a white flash when you apply power to them. With newer tubes, I know that the Ei tubes do this. Its normal, if that's what you saw.

the thing is this is a power amp

American Viking · 10-27-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnada

the thing is this is a power amp

There are still preamp tubes in all power amps.

carnada · 10-27-2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Viking

There are still preamp tubes in all power amps.

that shows my complete stupidity!

WELL I dont really know what to say, its the first I ever touch a poweramp. And the 4 big tubes in the back im pretty sure that are the 6l6s?

I dont know how to check if this is working, I think the spark didnt come from the power amp, I think it came from the power cable that hooks up to my power conditioner

***Adwex*** · 10-27-2009, 11:38 PM

Sounds like a short somewhere. Any fuses blow? Did the circuit breaker in the house trip?

jcmjmp · 10-27-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Viking

There are still preamp tubes in all power amps.

Yeah, and the mesa 50/50 has 3 preamp tubes.

carnada · 10-27-2009, 11:44 PM

atleast my tubes dont look like this

carnada · 10-27-2009, 11:55 PM

more posts please

im fucking sad, but my tubes arent broken or anything I think its a good start

So hook up the right speaker plug it in and turn it on....see what happens
unless you see some signs of damage there is nothing else you can do
even a tech has to do that

carnada · 10-28-2009, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buggs.Crosby

So hook up the right speaker plug it in and turn it on....see what happens
unless you see some signs of damage there is nothing else you can do
even a tech has to do that

I dont have a cabinet

I do have one but its at my practice spot

JohnH · 10-28-2009, 02:28 AM

Dont panic! You certainly need to get a cab plugged in before testing it, but it might have just been the mains plug arcing a bit as you plugged in with it already turned on. You can check the fuses though, that is a good idea first

Also, the power button was on, but how about the standby switch? on or off? Still dont panic, but if it was off then thats good.
John

Wilder Amplification · 10-28-2009, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnada

atleast my tubes dont look like this

LOL

What's wrong with those valves?

A word of helpful advice and constructive criticism. I know you're only 17, but one thing you really need to learn is that you really show your lack of intelligence when you post up things you have no "real knowledge" about (i.e. first-hand knowledge obtained by your experience and not "what you read somewhere else"). Kinda like your comment on NOS valves in a previous thread...going off of your post above regarding the getter flash in the valve it's very evident that you barely even know what a valve is, yet you're recommending NOS valves to someone who wants real knowledge regarding what valves to run, and you barely know what a valve even is, let alone knowing anything in regards to NOS valves. You'll be much better off here if you just stick to posting questions, reading threads, and learning as much as you can before you post up as if you "know it all" when it's clearly evident that you don't. I'm not trying to flame you in any way, just offering up some helpful advice.

Now that being said, I will explain what the "getter flash" in the valve is so that you can put a little more knowledge in the back of your head for future reference.

That silver flash you see on the bottle is not a burn mark...well it is, but it isn't. That's called the "getter flash" and it's part of the manufacturing process. When the valve is made they install a barium getter inside the valve. Where it gets the name "vacuum tube" is the fact that all the air from inside the bottle is evacuated to bring it to a vacuum condition inside the valve. You need 3 things for something to burn - heat, fuel, and oxygen. Current flow through the heater provides the heat while the filament is the fuel. If you had air/oxygen in the valve, the filament would burn out as soon as the current flowing through it generated enough heat for it to burn. By removing the air/oxygen from the bottle, you remove one of the 3 elements required to burn, and the heater is allowed to get hot without burning up.

Well, when they evacuate the air, they can't get all of it out. This is where the getter comes in. Once the bottle has been evacuated of all oxygen possible, they flash the getter, which causes the barium part of the getter to burn until the burning barium consumes all oxygen left in the bottle, which happens very quickly. When the barium burns, it leaves deposits on the inside surface of the bottle, which is the silver barium flash you see on the side of the bottle. Most valves have it on the top of the bottle, but some will exhibit the flash on the side such as the ones in your pics. It all depends on where they locate the getter inside the valve.

If the bottle ever breaks or develops an air leak, that silver flash will turn into white ash.

And no...you CANNOT run a valve amp without a load (i.e. a speaker) hooked up to it. You will damage it by doing so, plain and simple. Assuming that you had a guitar plugged in and were trying to play through it when it happened, the white flash you saw may very well have been the flyback voltage from the OT due to not having a load connected causing an arc within the valve.

And for the record, how the hell would you be able to audio test ANY amp without a speaker hooked up?

***Adwex*** · 10-28-2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnada

....
I dont know how to check if this is working, I think the spark didnt come from the power amp, I think it came from the power cable that hooks up to my power conditioner

It sounds like either a short somewhere in the power cable or connector, or something happened to the power conditioner. Check all the fuses and circuit breakers. Try plugging a lamp into the power conditioner, see if it still delivers power.

MKB · 10-28-2009, 08:56 AM

If you have a preamp tube that is flashing bright before warming up, it wouldn't exactly be a flash, but would take about a half second to get bright then fade out. It wouldn't be a quick bright flash like a spark or flash bulb.

Also I seriously doubt you caused any kind of damage by turning it on for a second or so without a load, especially if you didn't have any signal going through the amp. But if you hit a big A chord and let it sustain, it could go boom.

You don't have to use a guitar cab to test the amp, just use some kind of speaker and keep your volume low (make sure to match the impedances also). A simple low volume check with a speaker would tell you a lot about the amp's condition.

jcmjmp · 10-28-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification

LOL

What's wrong with those valves?

A word of helpful advice and constructive criticism. I know you're only 17, but one thing you really need to learn is that you really show your lack of intelligence when you post up things you have no "real knowledge" about (i.e. first-hand knowledge obtained by your experience and not "what you read somewhere else"). Kinda like your comment on NOS valves in a previous thread...going off of your post above regarding the getter flash in the valve it's very evident that you barely even know what a valve is, yet you're recommending NOS valves to someone who wants real knowledge regarding what valves to run, and you barely know what a valve even is, let alone knowing anything in regards to NOS valves. You'll be much better off here if you just stick to posting questions, reading threads, and learning as much as you can before you post up as if you "know it all" when it's clearly evident that you don't. I'm not trying to flame you in any way, just offering up some helpful advice.

x 1000

You would not believe the amount of people that post their opinion about things they know nothing or little about or have no experience with. That what bugs me with these forums.

When I post, I do so based on knowledge, facts and personal experience as much as possible. There's also personal preference and opinion but the post about the tubes is a prime example of not knowing what you're talking about.

I'd love to give those old RCA tubes a try.

Wilder Amplification · 10-28-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmjmp

You would not believe the amount of people that post their opinion about things they know nothing or little about or have no experience with. That what bugs me with these forums.

One example would be power soaks and the constant bashing they receive on this forum. How much you wanna bet that half the people who bash them have never even tried one?

Frankie · 10-28-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnada

atleast my tubes dont look like this

Those tubes are not only fine, they're RCA's! Tubes are supposed to have a black/silver spot in them, it's called getter flash and it picks up impurities during the manufacturing process. Side getter RCA tubes are worth a small fortune to some.

carnada · 10-29-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification

And for the record, how the hell would you be able to audio test ANY amp without a speaker hooked up?

the guy hooked it up to a speaker, not a cabinet.

BTW PEOPLE! I never knew what a fuse was until yesterday, and everything is fine in my poweramp, now I have to go get my fuse to "the source"

American Viking · 10-29-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnada

BTW PEOPLE! I never knew what a fuse was until yesterday, and everything is fine in my poweramp, now I have to go get my fuse to "the source"

oh my god... life is going to hit you like a train one day...

As long as you can replace the fuse you are ok, but always remember that when a fuse blows you always need to find out why. More than likely in this case it's because you plugged it in while it was switched on, but if it happens to blow a second time you need to evaluate your situation.

Always have spares for every replaceable component. Backing up cords, tubes, and fuses is a must.

carnada · 10-29-2009, 05:53 PM

replaced the fuse, and it is WORKING! YES!!!

im so happy now

btw american viking. The wasnt even on for a second, I plugged it in and I saw this light and it shut off, it was realllyyy quick.

carnada · 10-29-2009, 05:57 PM

another thing about my poweramp is that it doesnt need rebiasing! it has a fixed bias that cant be changed. I think its pretty cool.

and the guys in the mesa boogie forum say that this kind of poweramp is built like a tank and it never breaks lol.

Wilder Amplification · 10-29-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnada

another thing about my poweramp is that it doesnt need rebiasing! it has a fixed bias that cant be changed. I think its pretty cool.

and the guys in the mesa boogie forum say that this kind of poweramp is built like a tank and it never breaks lol.

Bullshit. It just means it has a non-adjustable bias, which means that it cannot be adjusted without swapping resistor values in the bias supply circuit. There's even a way to mod them so that they are adjustable. No amp can compensate its own bias based on what valve type/batch happens to be in it.

Not to be rude (I'm actually trying to help you here) but this is again one of those areas where you need to just not post up about things you have no clue about. You even indicated above that you had no idea what a fuse was...let alone a valve. This speaks volumes about the scope of your knowledge as it pertains to amplifiers. Just ask questions...we'll give you the answers and I promise they'll all be correct.

American Viking · 10-29-2009, 06:23 PM

Yup. You need to do some more research. It's part of what I like to call, a SCAM. I own some Mesa gear as well (shhhh) and this is how it works... The amp doesn't need to be biased only if you buy tubes direct from MESA/BOOGER! The amps do not come stock with components to make bias adjustable, so instead of where a trimpot is in a Marshall, it's just a typical resistor. No two tubes are the same, Mesa groups them closely together just like Groove Tubes say they pair theirs and so on. If you want the bias to be correct, you need to buy Mesa tubes only or get sets matched from Eurotubes who hand picks them specifically for Mesa's. Mesa has all their biases set super cold while Eurotubes . This is why I don't agree with the likes of Randall Smith, president of Mesa/Booger. His views on impedance matching are that of a fool as well.

carnada · 10-29-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification

Bullshit. It just means it has a non-adjustable bias, which means that it cannot be adjusted without swapping resistor values in the bias supply circuit. There's even a way to mod them so that they are adjustable. No amp can compensate its own bias based on what valve type/batch happens to be in it.

Not to be rude (I'm actually trying to help you here) but this is again one of those areas where you need to just not post up about things you have no clue about. You even indicated above that you had no idea what a fuse was...let alone a valve. This speaks volumes about the scope of your knowledge as it pertains to amplifiers. Just ask questions...we'll give you the answers and I promise they'll all be correct.

Well, the manual says the following, im not saying you are wrong xD your advice has been very helpful to me since the day you joined.

BIAS
As with all MESA/Boogie amplifiers, the bias is permanently set during construction and
never needs adjustment. This saves you any technician's fee for readjustment when
replacing tubes, and prevents the bias from "wandering" or being accidentally set improperly.

Wilder Amplification · 10-29-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnada

Well, the manual says the following, im not saying you are wrong xD your advice has been very helpful to me since the day you joined.

BIAS
As with all MESA/Boogie amplifiers, the bias is permanently set during construction and
never needs adjustment. This saves you any technician's fee for readjustment when
replacing tubes, and prevents the bias from "wandering" or being accidentally set improperly.

The owners manual is one thing...what's really going on inside the amp is completely another.

As American Viking stated above, this only applies if you use THEIR specific valves. That's the "fine print" they leave out. This is also why we here do not like Mesa/Booger and why we think Randall Smith should be committed to some offshore mental ward.

On top of that they bias them colder than shit, so they don't sound as good as they could. They do this to make that stupid feature work as advertised in the manual.

In my opinion, not having an adjustable bias is more of a detriment than a benefit. It's a bitch if you ever decide to run a different brand of valve and have to rebias it since you have to swap resistor values in and out to get it right.

carnada · 10-29-2009, 08:52 PM

damn, stupid fuggen mesa/poopers.

Well, atleast for my first poweramp it isnt that bad you know?

HOT TUBES 70 · 10-29-2009, 09:38 PM

And how critical is " biasing " ?? IMO !! To me its even more important than the tubes you run , set to cold - yuk !! set to hot , yah you get lots gain but no warmth
and real tone . It maybe a few extra minutes to do it , but its soooooo worth it !!!!!

jcmjmp · 10-29-2009, 09:45 PM

The 50/50 is easily modded for a bias trim pot.

10-27-2009, 10:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 662	Help quick Im fucking worried! okay so this is not marshall at all, in fact....its mesa boogie. So I was gettin my new mesa boogie 50 50 rack power amp in the rack, and when I plugged it in to the power conditioner, I saw this sort of white light coming out of some place of my rack....like a little spark, but im not sure where it came from. And it also made a little bit of a pop. Im not sure if its my power amp or something. I also DID NOT smell any burning smell or anything like that. AND I NOTICED that when I was carrying the power amp, by mistake...I turned on the power button.......so yeah, you know what im talking about. and it wasnt plugged in to a cab or speaker Is there any way I can test it without plugging it in to a speaker? because my cab is not here! and im really worriieeddd. I bought it like 3 hours ago, and I dont know what to do to see if it works

10-27-2009, 10:58 PM	#2 (permalink)
jcmjmp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,341	Re: Help quick Im fucking worried! Some older preamp tubes have a white flash when you apply power to them. With newer tubes, I know that the Ei tubes do this. Its normal, if that's what you saw.

10-27-2009, 11:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
HOT TUBES 70 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,675	Re: Help quick Im fucking worried! dude , thats not good !!! __________________ MARSHALL 6100LM MARSHALL 1960A W/-G12H 30's CUSTOM BUILT 2X12 W/-V30's "MARSHALL" - only the best will do !

10-27-2009, 11:38 PM	#7 (permalink)
*Adwex* Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,631	Re: Help quick Im fucking worried! Sounds like a short somewhere. Any fuses blow? Did the circuit breaker in the house trip? __________________ http://www.youtube.com/MarshallLesPaul

10-27-2009, 11:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 662	Re: Help quick Im fucking worried! atleast my tubes dont look like this

10-27-2009, 11:55 PM	#10 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 662	Re: Help quick Im fucking worried! more posts please im fucking sad, but my tubes arent broken or anything I think its a good start

10-28-2009, 02:28 AM	#13 (permalink)
JohnH Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 640	Re: Help quick Im fucking worried! Dont panic! You certainly need to get a cab plugged in before testing it, but it might have just been the mains plug arcing a bit as you plugged in with it already turned on. You can check the fuses though, that is a good idea first Also, the power button was on, but how about the standby switch? on or off? Still dont panic, but if it was off then thats good. John __________________ DSL401 8412 cab Crate Powerblock 1 x 12 Vintage 30 cab '76 Shergold Masquerader '93 Les Paul Studio '83 Roadstar

10-28-2009, 08:56 AM	#16 (permalink)
MKB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 203	Re: Help quick Im fucking worried! If you have a preamp tube that is flashing bright before warming up, it wouldn't exactly be a flash, but would take about a half second to get bright then fade out. It wouldn't be a quick bright flash like a spark or flash bulb. Also I seriously doubt you caused any kind of damage by turning it on for a second or so without a load, especially if you didn't have any signal going through the amp. But if you hit a big A chord and let it sustain, it could go boom. You don't have to use a guitar cab to test the amp, just use some kind of speaker and keep your volume low (make sure to match the impedances also). A simple low volume check with a speaker would tell you a lot about the amp's condition.

10-29-2009, 05:53 PM	#22 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 662	Re: Help quick Im fucking worried! replaced the fuse, and it is WORKING! YES!!! im so happy now btw american viking. The wasnt even on for a second, I plugged it in and I saw this light and it shut off, it was realllyyy quick.

10-29-2009, 05:57 PM	#23 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 662	Re: Help quick Im fucking worried! another thing about my poweramp is that it doesnt need rebiasing! it has a fixed bias that cant be changed. I think its pretty cool. and the guys in the mesa boogie forum say that this kind of poweramp is built like a tank and it never breaks lol.

10-29-2009, 06:23 PM	#25 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 1,510	Re: Help quick Im fucking worried! Yup. You need to do some more research. It's part of what I like to call, a SCAM. I own some Mesa gear as well (shhhh) and this is how it works... The amp doesn't need to be biased *only if you buy tubes direct from MESA/BOOGER!* The amps do not come stock with components to make bias adjustable, so instead of where a trimpot is in a Marshall, it's just a typical resistor. No two tubes are the same, Mesa groups them closely together just like Groove Tubes say they pair theirs and so on. If you want the bias to be correct, you need to buy Mesa tubes only or get sets matched from Eurotubes who hand picks them specifically for Mesa's. Mesa has all their biases set super cold while Eurotubes . This is why I don't agree with the likes of Randall Smith, president of Mesa/Booger. His views on impedance matching are that of a fool as well. __________________ -I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

10-29-2009, 08:52 PM	#28 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 662	Re: Help quick Im fucking worried! damn, stupid fuggen mesa/poopers. Well, atleast for my first poweramp it isnt that bad you know?

10-29-2009, 09:38 PM	#29 (permalink)
HOT TUBES 70 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,675	Re: Help quick Im fucking worried! And how critical is " biasing " ?? IMO !! To me its even more important than the tubes you run , set to cold - yuk !! set to hot , yah you get lots gain but no warmth and real tone . It maybe a few extra minutes to do it , but its soooooo worth it !!!!! __________________ MARSHALL 6100LM MARSHALL 1960A W/-G12H 30's CUSTOM BUILT 2X12 W/-V30's "MARSHALL" - only the best will do !

10-29-2009, 09:45 PM	#30 (permalink)
jcmjmp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,341	Re: Help quick Im fucking worried! The 50/50 is easily modded for a bias trim pot.

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