Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? - Page 3

MartyStrat54 · 09-09-2009, 09:45 PM

You know Jae, I wanted to tell you something. Most guys get these really nice older Marshall amps and then they stick the cheapest power tubes in them that they can find, but not you. You got a couple of really nice amps and you went the extra mile and put great NOS tubes in them. I tip my hat to you. Way to go.

Jae · 09-09-2009, 11:09 PM

Yeah, I agree 100%. When I got the Marshall JMP '78, there were some GT EL34s in there. Not saying they are bad tubes, but the amp actually didn't have that bottom end. I didn't even check what preamp tubes were in there, we'll get back to that later.

But I blew one of the power tubes (my fault for running it without a speaker cabinet, stupid me.) Then me, still a novice in tube world just bought the nearest GT EL34's again. Slapped them in. I tell you, there was just no bottom end again. I just figured that it's a vintage amp, so it's not as powerful as before. But it was harsh sounding too at higher volumes.

Today I stuck these Mullards in there and there was the bottom end I didn't even know this amp could produce.

I have to tell you. I never even opened the covers for the preamp tubes the whole time I had it (lol). Until I found that people swap these preamp tubes quite frequently. This other guy I met started to take them right out while the amp was on standby and i didn't even know you could touch these things. I thought they were like touching a hot stove. (i burned my hand once real bad playing around with my 5W Fender Champ amp from one of the tubes inside so I never got near them for awhile.)

I opened up the cans, and there was not a single Mullard, Telefunken or anything like that, just CP tubes. I don't want to bad mouth CP tubes, but after trying the NOS, I don't think I'll ever go back.

Yeah, the guy who had it before me didn't know about all that I guess and had all the CPs in there. Now the amp sounds ALOT warmer, has sustain and bottom end and that punch.

Thanks to everyone here especially Marty.

I'm not done yet though, I'll post some more good pics of other things I can get. I'm planning to replace the tubes in all my amps with Mullards or Tele's. I also have another quad Mullard xf2's OOs matched coming in soon hopefully and I can post some good pics for you guys. This forum has been really good to me. Thanks!

And I agree totally Marty. Why do these people have a good vintage amp and put in crappy CP tubes in?
I don't mind spending a little more to get a better tone and experimenting. Some people I feel are too scared to experiment (I myself was before, not knowing alot). I say make a good investment and get better tone, not stick some cheap CP tubes in and get bad tone.

But then again it's all preference. My preference is NOS all the way now!!

MartyStrat54 · 09-09-2009, 11:27 PM

Yes...100 per cent agreement to that.

The main thing is that NOS tubes are built better and can take more plate voltage. This is very important on certain vintage Marshall amps that run over 550V.

Who wants to say, "My valuable amp is ruined because I stuck some cheap tubes in it and one of them sucked flames." I mean I run TSL's and I still put good tubes in all of my amps and I have a bunch. Even my hybrid amps have NOS tubes in them and my Peavey's too.

I think it just makes sense to run the best tubes you can. It's safer and your amp will sound better. When NOS is no longer available, I'll be too old to care and I will sell my tubes to the young guys looking for the best sound.

Jae · 09-09-2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Yes...100 per cent agreement to that.

The main thing is that NOS tubes are built better and can take more plate voltage. This is very important on certain vintage Marshall amps that run over 550V.

Who wants to say, "My valuable amp is ruined because I stuck some cheap tubes in it and one of them sucked flames." I mean I run TSL's and I still put good tubes in all of my amps and I have a bunch. Even my hybrid amps have NOS tubes in them and my Peavey's too.

I think it just makes sense to run the best tubes you can. It's safer and your amp will sound better. When NOS is no longer available, I'll be too old to care and I will sell my tubes to the young guys looking for the best sound.

Yeah, I'm a little worried. As the NOS' are not going to be here forever. I just don't think they make them like they did back then, when they were even being made for the military and such.

Even though NOS prices are high for Mullards and Tele's now I'd say that they'll go even higher if people keep playing guitar and are still concerned about tone. Imagine 20 years down the road.. An NOS/NIB Mullard turns up somewhere. Never been used for 60 years and still in pristine shape. WOW!!

I can imagine how much that would be if the kids today who play maintain the demand for these tubes. I'd say we are still in the lucky phase now, since these NOS' are still available to some degree and still high in price, but affordable to someone willing to invest in great tone.

MartyStrat54 · 09-10-2009, 12:30 AM

Well in a ways there is an answer. Several reputable companies have formed and they are making high quality tubes. Tech Tube is the main one. They are making 12AX7/ECC83 derivatives that are getting better with each batch. They plan on making EL34's and KT88's in the future and that's great news.

Tech Tube is the old original Mullard company and they have set up shop at the Blackburn plant. Whenever there is notable news it will be posted on the Preamp thread.

steelhorse · 09-10-2009, 02:03 AM

Great to hear Marty.

Jesstaa · 09-10-2009, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Who wants to say, "My valuable amp is ruined because I stuck some cheap tubes in it and one of them sucked flames."

Mm, flames and a tube amp... Don't mix well, I burnt a hole right through the bottom of one of my old tubes xD

I needa save up some money so I can get together a decent collection of NOS tubes, to keep me going for like the next 20 years at least, until then I'm stuck with CP tubes =(

Example 1 of why CP tubes suck.

MartyStrat54 · 09-10-2009, 02:09 PM

Thanks for posting that. Man that was some major current draw and yes, it sucked flames. I can't believe how much damage a cheap tube can do to an amp. What the hell did this tube do to your main board? You can also tell it was arcing between pins.

Again, thanks for sharing that pic. It shows exactly what I was talking about.

MartyStrat54 · 09-10-2009, 03:32 PM

Just thought that I would throw this out. If you have an older Marshall (or other) amp that uses a rectifier tube, do you use NOS or do you use current production? For building a database, I would like to know the brand, type and amount of service you get. Also, the high voltage of the amp. Most old Marshall's ran above 550V. Have you ever had a rectifier tube go bad on you?

Jae · 09-10-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesstaa

Mm, flames and a tube amp... Don't mix well, I burnt a hole right through the bottom of one of my old tubes xD

I needa save up some money so I can get together a decent collection of NOS tubes, to keep me going for like the next 20 years at least, until then I'm stuck with CP tubes =(

Example 1 of why CP tubes suck.

Wow, that's too bad and dangerous. That gives me another reason to stay away from CPs. Marty was a life saver on the point mentioned about the older Marshalls putting out more voltage, which in fact can damage the amp if you put in newer CP tubes which handle less. If I didn't know that I'd think it was safe to CPs in the vintage Marshalls. Not a good idea.

Hey Jess, what amp was it btw?

Jae · 09-10-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Just thought that I would throw this out. If you have an older Marshall (or other) amp that uses a rectifier tube, do you use NOS or do you use current production? For building a database, I would like to know the brand, type and amount of service you get. Also, the high voltage of the amp. Most old Marshall's ran above 550V. Have you ever had a rectifier tube go bad on you?

Man, that's a good question. This you mean goes for amps that don't have a solid state rectifier, right (duh!). It must mean the amps like the JTMs. I wish I had one, but don't.

BTW Marty, do you have other vintage amps? If so what's your rig??

Jesstaa · 09-10-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae

Wow, that's too bad and dangerous. That gives me another reason to stay away from CPs. Marty was a life saver on the point mentioned about the older Marshalls putting out more voltage, which in fact can damage the amp if you put in newer CP tubes which handle less. If I didn't know that I'd think it was safe to CPs in the vintage Marshalls. Not a good idea.

Hey Jess, what amp was it btw?

*points at sig*

And Marty, no mainboard damage as far as I know (Thank fuck for 900 bases not being mounted to the PCB), but the OT is on the way out.

There's the tube socket.

And another pic of the tube base

Feel free to use that as an example of why CP tubes suck.

And Marty, if you use my story as an example, don't forget to mention my OT has to be replaced now.

MartyStrat54 · 09-10-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae

Man, that's a good question. This you mean goes for amps that don't have a solid state rectifier, right (duh!). It must mean the amps like the JTMs. I wish I had one, but don't.

BTW Marty, do you have other vintage amps? If so what's your rig??

Well if you look at my sig, I like using TSL's. I also have a couple of DSL401's. Then we get into my other amps. I have a rare, low S/N 1972 Randall RG150. This amp uses very rare 8417 power tubes. This was a completely different power tube in how it was designed. However, it is in the same wattage class as a 6550 and a KT88. In theory, four 8417's can produce 200 watts. Randall throttled the design back a bit and called it good at 150 watts. My amp puts out 172 watts at 5 per cent distortion. It has a solid state preamp with a 12AT7 phase inverter tube. It is a two channel amp and one channel has a master volume. However, I have to use an ABY to get it to work like a two channel. No real problem. It's a brute.

Then I have a 1974 Randall RG90. It is all solid state and I put two new speakers in it. It hardly has any real damage to it. For as old as my Randall's are, they are in great shape.

Then I have my Peavey's. I used to have a MACE 212 in 1974, so I bought a MACE head a few years ago. This is the one that came from the factory with six, STR387 6L6GC's. It's another amp rated at 160 plus watts. Then I have a Peavey Deuce 212 combo and a Peavey Classic 212.

Rounding it all out are two, 35 watt, all tube RCA PA amps modified for guitar. These amps use another rare NOS tube called a 7027A. It is really a big 6L6, but it has a slightly different pin out. 7AC for the 6L6 and 8HY for the 7027A.

When the market gets a little better, I'm going to sell some of my amps and get me one real good boutique amp in the 20 to 30 watt range. I need something more portable, so I'll probably get a head and I'll build a custom cabinet with 2, 12's.

MartyStrat54 · 09-11-2009, 10:37 PM

I just have to say that I feel sorry for anyone who has had damage done to their amp because of a current production power tube failing. You spend your money and you think you are getting a well tested and safe product to use in your expensive amp. Five days later, there's smoke and maybe a little flame or molten metal dripping on your speakers. Not a good scenario, but it happens. I go to other tube forums and they don't pull any punches over there. If someone is making bad tubes they state the brands. I have read dozens of stories like the one ^^^ above. Pins melted off of tubes, glass broken all inside of the amp and expensive damage to the chassis as a result of all of this.

I'm glad that most of you have had good luck with current production (CP) tubes. However, I scan a lot of threads and a good percentage of them are tube related/bad tubes.

I hope that the Russian's and the Chinese step up their quality control so that this sort of crap comes to a close.

Jae · 09-12-2009, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

I just have to say that I feel sorry for anyone who has had damage done to their amp because of a current production power tube failing. You spend your money and you think you are getting a well tested and safe product to use in your expensive amp. Five days later, there's smoke and maybe a little flame or molten metal dripping on your speakers. Not a good scenario, but it happens. I go to other tube forums and they don't pull any punches over there. If someone is making bad tubes they state the brands. I have read dozens of stories like the one ^^^ above. Pins melted off of tubes, glass broken all inside of the amp and expensive damage to the chassis as a result of all of this.

I'm glad that most of you have had good luck with current production (CP) tubes. However, I scan a lot of threads and a good percentage of them are tube related/bad tubes.

I hope that the Russian's and the Chinese step up their quality control so that this sort of crap comes to a close.

Yeah, I would say i feel sorry for them too.
Now that I know that NOS tubes are good and can handle the power (especially for a vintage amp) I wouldn't mind spending the extra bucks for safety of the amp as well as get tone.

I blew one tube once and that was a CP. But, it was entirely my fault. I hooked it up to nothing and had the master and preamp volumes to 10 and played through. What was crazy was I actually heard sound coming from the head itself, and a high pitched very low volume but audible sound. Then the amp just stopped making the sound and stopped working altogether. I had a GT El34 in there and one of them just blew and was cracked. Luckily the transformers were not damaged and the amp works great now.

This is the same amp I posted earlier with the Mullard xf2's.

BTW, I still have my '67 Super in the shop getting the Sylvania 6CA7s put in. Can't wait!
I also was thinking of switching a filter cap on that one to match the sound of my '72 Super, which was sold to me as an all original. That is the best soudning amp I have right now.

Oh, I have to show you the power tubes it came with. Not sure if they are NOS, but they say Ruby on them. I'll post some pics when I get the chance!

MartyStrat54 · 09-12-2009, 12:25 AM

Ruby's are relabeled Chinese tubes. Dirt cheap CP.

Jae · 09-12-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Ruby's are relabeled Chinese tubes. Dirt cheap CP.

So I guess it isn't the tubes that are making the amp sound good, or in fact there is some kind of anomoly (sorry, can't spell this word) going on where in fact thes CPs are working together with the circuitry to produce a pleasing tone.

Hmmm. I was contemplating on changing to NOS Tele's or Sylvania or Mullards. See if that makes it sound even better.

Plus for safety reasons as well...

However, I like the sound of the amp right now so much that I'll change some preamp tubes, but leave it the way it is.. for now.. Hmmm, still contemplating..doh!

MartyStrat54 · 09-12-2009, 12:40 AM

A lot of people like the sound of a RUBY. I just can't vouch for their reliability.

Jae · 09-12-2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

A lot of people like the sound of a RUBY. I just can't vouch for their reliability.

One thing I did notice was that it gets pretty hot at the back when cranked. I don't think it's good when the Output tubes get too hot. My 1987x used to get real hot with CP tubes in there and one day the OT just blew. Not sure if they were because of the tubes.

Is it normal for output tubes to get really hot/warm. I wish I would actually show you how warm it gets.

My other '67 doesn't get that hot, nor does my JMP '78. There must be a reason, because only the amps with the CPs tend to get that way. Hmmm.

solarburnDSL50 · 09-12-2009, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Ruby's are relabeled Chinese tubes. Dirt cheap CP.

What cracks me up is if you buy Ruby EL34BSTR's(matched set)they will be $39.00 online. If you buy(matched set)the Shuguang EL34B(same EL34 as the BSTR)it is $28.95 online. Relabel makes a bit of a profit there.

EL34/KT77/6CA7 Power Tubes

Shuguang EL34-B

Procter2812 · 09-12-2009, 05:26 AM

Im being honest... iv retubed my amp once wit E34L JJ's and i didnt like them compared to the sveltena =C=.....

The Winged C EL34's seem fairly rugged. Iv got them in my 800 and love the sound... The JJ's were sounding floppy and higher noise.

Im defo gonna lean towards NOS power tubes when these go out on me!

Alex

coldsteal2 · 09-12-2009, 05:33 AM

Ruby is just a distributer, they use tubes from many
different companies just like Grove Tube does, they actualy
have more Russian tubes. They do have a Chinese factory
for a few models, but also have

Russian
JJ's (Slovakia)
Sovtek
China
German
Tungsol

solarburnDSL50 · 09-12-2009, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Procter2812

Im being honest... iv retubed my amp once wit E34L JJ's and i didnt like them compared to the sveltena =C=.....

The Winged C EL34's seem fairly rugged. Iv got them in my 800 and love the sound... The JJ's were sounding floppy and higher noise.

Im defo gonna lean towards NOS power tubes when these go out on me!

Alex

I really like the Winged =C='s. For my blues and rock playing they do well. More open and not as tight and compressed. Also have a great rep for durability.

The Ruby BSTR(Shuguang)actually sound pretty good. I used them for several months and didn't have any problems. Tung Sols were good. Svetlanas in my amp were just too middy and lacked lowend. I'm sure in a mix they would cut no problem but my amp already cuts so no deal for me. KT-77's sounded good especially on the clean channel. I have a set of the JJ-34L's that I haven't even tried yet. Mostly I hear they sound good but they do get mixed reviews. I'll try them one of these days here hehe.

I have only tried the RFT EL34's as far as NOS EL 34's go and they are great sounding. I like to try tubes in my amp and see how they fare if I have the money. If not then I make the educated guess from players I can relate to equipment wise and musically and make plans on what will give me the most bang for my buck.

Its a real bummer to see a power tube go out and cause a bunch of collateral damage. I'm not looking forward to that!

Jae · 09-14-2009, 11:19 PM

Ok, here is another question. I always here about the KT88s. I think they look cool. What are they like in terms of sound? I think i saw some of them in the older vintage plexi's. Does anyone here have any experience with KT88s? If so what brand or kind are good? Do you have experience with both NOS or CP?

Also, I have a vintage superlead. Would i have to change a part of the circuitry to accomodate these tubes?

MartyStrat54 · 09-15-2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae

Ok, here is another question. I always here about the KT88s. I think they look cool. What are they like in terms of sound? I think i saw some of them in the older vintage plexi's. Does anyone here have any experience with KT88s? If so what brand or kind are good? Do you have experience with both NOS or CP?

Also, I have a vintage superlead. Would i have to change a part of the circuitry to accomodate these tubes?

Well as much money as you have been spending on NOS tubes, NOS KT88's might clean you out. I mean they are sky high expensive. That is why several tube companies are making KT88's. The Chinese have been making them for quite some time and they are probably one of the better tubes.

I don't think there is any CP KT88 that will meet the spec's of an NOS KT88. I think the one's that are made are good enough to get by in an amp. You have to understand that an NOS KT88 was designed to make 50 watts each. CP KT88's are being used in amps where they are making 25 watts each.

The other thing is plate voltage. NOS EL34's and KT88's are rated at 800V on the plates. Older Marshall amps, or amps with high plate voltage could curl the plates on CP power tubes like the EL34 and KT88. They may only be rated at around 450V. You won't know until you try them. The bottom line is that if you have a plate voltage of 435V and the tube is rated at 450V, how long will the tube last in this type of scenario?

Generally, you might be able to swap over to KT88's without doing anything. It all depends on whether the tubes will bias in the amp. If they don't, you usually can just change the final bias resistor and then you will be able to bias the amp. Your bias calculation will be different because the KT88 is a 35 watt dissipation tube and the EL34 is a 25 watt dissipation tube.

If I had your amps, I would run the NOS EL34's. The KT88 is basically a high power Hi Fi tube. Therefore it doesn't break up like an EL34. Now some players prefer this due to the style of music they play and the FX system they are running. Some of my friends here on the forum are using KT88's. American Viking runs KT88's and he loves the sound it puts out. I think some Marshall amps can run KT88's without any problems. I would like to have like an 1984 800 50 watter with two KT88's. Hell, I would like to just have an 800 again.

Anyway, you can do some searching here on the forum for additional info on KT88's.

Jae · 09-15-2009, 12:28 AM

Thanks Marty. And thanks also for the good read on the preamp thread. it was a long read, but I found some useful info.

I noticed them talking about the importance of matched output tubes. No WONDER the CP tubes in my 1987x were getting so hot. Also the '72 super gets pretty hot at the back. Now I'm starting to wonder if the tubes I have in both of them are poorly matched. Also, this might be a dumb question, but if you put in a very mismatched set of tubes, can it blow an OT?

The 1987x OT blew and I noticed that back then it was getting pretty hot, hotter than the other vintage Marshalls i have.

As for KT88s, i might not need them for now. Price is sky high and I like the extra gain from the EL34s.

Jesstaa · 09-15-2009, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae

Thanks Marty. And thanks also for the good read on the preamp thread. it was a long read, but I found some useful info.

I noticed them talking about the importance of matched output tubes. No WONDER the CP tubes in my 1987x were getting so hot. Also the '72 super gets pretty hot at the back. Now I'm starting to wonder if the tubes I have in both of them are poorly matched. Also, this might be a dumb question, but if you put in a very mismatched set of tubes, can it blow an OT?

The 1987x OT blew and I noticed that back then it was getting pretty hot, hotter than the other vintage Marshalls i have.

As for KT88s, i might not need them for now. Price is sky high and I like the extra gain from the EL34s.

I'd say save KT88's for something like a 2 amp set up, with 1 for cleans, more headroom

steelhorse · 09-15-2009, 02:25 AM

I love the KT88's. Big, thunderous.

KT88's on the outside pair of the quad with KT66's in between.

GZ34's in the immediate foreground and GT6L6's in the background on it's side which the integrated quad replaced.

RiverRatt · 09-15-2009, 10:59 AM

Has anyone here ever tried the Groove Tubes 6CA7 GE reissue? It's made in the USA using much of G.E.'s original equipment and top secret plans.
I read about these yesterday and they sound interesting.

Reviews are scarce. I found a pair at a few online retailers for $80, which is getting into NOS RFT territory.

One person said that they are a reissue of the tubes that were in EVH's Marshall for the first two albums.

javier pintos · 09-15-2009, 11:02 AM

OK NOS are better than CP, but what if you must get CP cause you do not have the $$ to get the NOS and your power tubes are on the way out or have already fail?, what CP would be good to go for

I´m thinking on my DSL100

Cheers

09-09-2009, 09:45 PM	#61 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? You know Jae, I wanted to tell you something. Most guys get these really nice older Marshall amps and then they stick the cheapest power tubes in them that they can find, but not you. You got a couple of really nice amps and you went the extra mile and put great NOS tubes in them. I tip my hat to you. Way to go. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

09-09-2009, 11:09 PM	#62 (permalink)
Jae Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 261	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? Yeah, I agree 100%. When I got the Marshall JMP '78, there were some GT EL34s in there. Not saying they are bad tubes, but the amp actually didn't have that bottom end. I didn't even check what preamp tubes were in there, we'll get back to that later. But I blew one of the power tubes (my fault for running it without a speaker cabinet, stupid me.) Then me, still a novice in tube world just bought the nearest GT EL34's again. Slapped them in. I tell you, there was just no bottom end again. I just figured that it's a vintage amp, so it's not as powerful as before. But it was harsh sounding too at higher volumes. Today I stuck these Mullards in there and there was the bottom end I didn't even know this amp could produce. I have to tell you. I never even opened the covers for the preamp tubes the whole time I had it (lol). Until I found that people swap these preamp tubes quite frequently. This other guy I met started to take them right out while the amp was on standby and i didn't even know you could touch these things. I thought they were like touching a hot stove. (i burned my hand once real bad playing around with my 5W Fender Champ amp from one of the tubes inside so I never got near them for awhile.) I opened up the cans, and there was not a single Mullard, Telefunken or anything like that, just CP tubes. I don't want to bad mouth CP tubes, but after trying the NOS, I don't think I'll ever go back. Yeah, the guy who had it before me didn't know about all that I guess and had all the CPs in there. Now the amp sounds ALOT warmer, has sustain and bottom end and that punch. Thanks to everyone here especially Marty. I'm not done yet though, I'll post some more good pics of other things I can get. I'm planning to replace the tubes in all my amps with Mullards or Tele's. I also have another quad Mullard xf2's OOs matched coming in soon hopefully and I can post some good pics for you guys. This forum has been really good to me. Thanks! And I agree totally Marty. Why do these people have a good vintage amp and put in crappy CP tubes in? I don't mind spending a little more to get a better tone and experimenting. Some people I feel are too scared to experiment (I myself was before, not knowing alot). I say make a good investment and get better tone, not stick some cheap CP tubes in and get bad tone. But then again it's all preference. My preference is NOS all the way now!!

09-09-2009, 11:27 PM	#63 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? Yes...100 per cent agreement to that. The main thing is that NOS tubes are built better and can take more plate voltage. This is very important on certain vintage Marshall amps that run over 550V. Who wants to say, "My valuable amp is ruined because I stuck some cheap tubes in it and one of them sucked flames." I mean I run TSL's and I still put good tubes in all of my amps and I have a bunch. Even my hybrid amps have NOS tubes in them and my Peavey's too. I think it just makes sense to run the best tubes you can. It's safer and your amp will sound better. When NOS is no longer available, I'll be too old to care and I will sell my tubes to the young guys looking for the best sound. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

09-10-2009, 12:30 AM	#65 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? Well in a ways there is an answer. Several reputable companies have formed and they are making high quality tubes. Tech Tube is the main one. They are making 12AX7/ECC83 derivatives that are getting better with each batch. They plan on making EL34's and KT88's in the future and that's great news. Tech Tube is the old original Mullard company and they have set up shop at the Blackburn plant. Whenever there is notable news it will be posted on the Preamp thread. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

09-10-2009, 02:03 AM	#66 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,888	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? Great to hear Marty. __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

09-10-2009, 02:09 PM	#68 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? Thanks for posting that. Man that was some major current draw and yes, it sucked flames. I can't believe how much damage a cheap tube can do to an amp. What the hell did this tube do to your main board? You can also tell it was arcing between pins. Again, thanks for sharing that pic. It shows exactly what I was talking about. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

09-10-2009, 03:32 PM	#69 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? Just thought that I would throw this out. If you have an older Marshall (or other) amp that uses a rectifier tube, do you use NOS or do you use current production? For building a database, I would like to know the brand, type and amount of service you get. Also, the high voltage of the amp. Most old Marshall's ran above 550V. Have you ever had a rectifier tube go bad on you? __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

09-11-2009, 10:37 PM	#74 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? I just have to say that I feel sorry for anyone who has had damage done to their amp because of a current production power tube failing. You spend your money and you think you are getting a well tested and safe product to use in your expensive amp. Five days later, there's smoke and maybe a little flame or molten metal dripping on your speakers. Not a good scenario, but it happens. I go to other tube forums and they don't pull any punches over there. If someone is making bad tubes they state the brands. I have read dozens of stories like the one ^^^ above. Pins melted off of tubes, glass broken all inside of the amp and expensive damage to the chassis as a result of all of this. I'm glad that most of you have had good luck with current production (CP) tubes. However, I scan a lot of threads and a good percentage of them are tube related/bad tubes. I hope that the Russian's and the Chinese step up their quality control so that this sort of crap comes to a close. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

09-12-2009, 12:25 AM	#76 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? Ruby's are relabeled Chinese tubes. Dirt cheap CP. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

09-12-2009, 12:40 AM	#78 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? A lot of people like the sound of a RUBY. I just can't vouch for their reliability. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

09-12-2009, 05:26 AM	#81 (permalink)
Procter2812 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 334	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? Im being honest... iv retubed my amp once wit E34L JJ's and i didnt like them compared to the sveltena =C=..... The Winged C EL34's seem fairly rugged. Iv got them in my 800 and love the sound... The JJ's were sounding floppy and higher noise. Im defo gonna lean towards NOS power tubes when these go out on me! Alex __________________ www.sexpistolstribute.co.uk JCM800 2203X JCM2000 TSL100 Marshall 1936 Gibson Les Paul Custom Orville Les Paul Custom Fender Highway One Stratocaster Boss EQ Ibanez Tube Screamer Crybaby Wah Boss TU-2

09-12-2009, 05:33 AM	#82 (permalink)
coldsteal2 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Chico, CA Posts: 1,555	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? Ruby is just a distributer, they use tubes from many different companies just like Grove Tube does, they actualy have more Russian tubes. They do have a Chinese factory for a few models, but also have Russian JJ's (Slovakia) Sovtek China German Tungsol __________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/kroftkarl http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...&content=music

09-14-2009, 11:19 PM	#84 (permalink)
Jae Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 261	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? Ok, here is another question. I always here about the KT88s. I think they look cool. What are they like in terms of sound? I think i saw some of them in the older vintage plexi's. Does anyone here have any experience with KT88s? If so what brand or kind are good? Do you have experience with both NOS or CP? Also, I have a vintage superlead. Would i have to change a part of the circuitry to accomodate these tubes?

09-15-2009, 12:28 AM	#86 (permalink)
Jae Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 261	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? Thanks Marty. And thanks also for the good read on the preamp thread. it was a long read, but I found some useful info. I noticed them talking about the importance of matched output tubes. No WONDER the CP tubes in my 1987x were getting so hot. Also the '72 super gets pretty hot at the back. Now I'm starting to wonder if the tubes I have in both of them are poorly matched. Also, this might be a dumb question, but if you put in a very mismatched set of tubes, can it blow an OT? The 1987x OT blew and I noticed that back then it was getting pretty hot, hotter than the other vintage Marshalls i have. As for KT88s, i might not need them for now. Price is sky high and I like the extra gain from the EL34s.

09-15-2009, 10:59 AM	#89 (permalink)
RiverRatt Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Between Memphis and Nashville Posts: 517	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? Has anyone here ever tried the Groove Tubes 6CA7 GE reissue? It's made in the USA using much of G.E.'s original equipment and top secret plans. I read about these yesterday and they sound interesting. Reviews are scarce. I found a pair at a few online retailers for $80, which is getting into NOS RFT territory. One person said that they are a reissue of the tubes that were in EVH's Marshall for the first two albums.

09-15-2009, 11:02 AM	#90 (permalink)
javier pintos Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Mexico Posts: 323	Re: Power tubes?? Who, What, When Where how?? OK NOS are better than CP, but what if you must get CP cause you do not have the $$ to get the NOS and your power tubes are on the way out or have already fail?, what CP would be good to go for I´m thinking on my DSL100 Cheers

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