Marshall DSL 401 Combo

TomGuitar9 · 07-21-2009, 12:02 PM

Ok so im looking into getting my first tube amp and the dsl combo caught my attention. Im looking for that good marshall tone and I play lots of classic and hard rock. I'll be using it for small gigs too. Will I need an extension cab for it in that case? Also is it worth to swap out the stock tubes and speaker? And how does it compare to the tsl combo?

MartyStrat54 · 07-21-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomGuitar9

Ok so im looking into getting my first tube amp and the dsl combo caught my attention. Im looking for that good marshall tone and I play lots of classic and hard rock. I'll be using it for small gigs too. Will I need an extension cab for it in that case? Also is it worth to swap out the stock tubes and speaker? And how does it compare to the tsl combo?

I have two 401's and they both have NOS tubes in them. I've also put different 16 ohm speakers in each combo. The tubes made a huge difference. I'm running RCA Gray Plate 6BQ5's in one and Telefunken EL84's in the other. I took the Gold Back speakers out and one of the combo's has an alnico Eminence Red Fang in it. The other has a JBL D123 in it.

These little combos sound pretty good stock, but they can be tweaked to sound so much better. If I need to go louder, I just mic the speaker. However, some guys disconnect the main speaker and hook the amp up to a sealed back cab with say a couple of V30's in it. This gives a completely different sound. Perfect for your style of playing.

When it comes to tube amps, tubes and speakers can make a huge difference in how the amp sounds. Just remember that a DSL401 uses EL84 power tubes. These tubes sound different than an EL34. They are warmer sounding. You can get some really sweet singing sustain.

Now I also own the TSL602 and TSL122. However, I think that to be fair, we will just look at the 602, because it is a sixty watt amp and the 401 is a forty watt amp. The 602 is a completely different sounding amp. I have also changed the tubes and speakers out in both of my 602's. However, even when stock, the 602 is more aggressive sounding than a 401. It doesn't matter if you are playing through a 601 or a 602, the amp is going to be louder and of course you have a clean, crunch and lead channel. The 401 has two channels.

Personally, I tend to play the 401 more at home and the 602 is what I use if I go out on a gig. It has all the volume I want and it is a very versatile amp. Back in 1999, I bought my first 401 and I played numerous small gigs with it. As I said, the amp can always be run through the sound system in larger venues.

Lastly, the 401 is a combo that is still portable. It is easy to load and unload. The 602 is very heavy...almost as heavy as the 122. If you need to consider this, then I would lean towards the 401. They can be bought used for less money than a TSL combo. If you can swing your tunes with two channels, then that would be the way to go.

Marty

Badmo · 10-29-2009, 07:20 PM

Hi hi i stumbled on this thread and it has helped my alot already i was 'am' torn between the dsl401 and tsl602 but i figure the cash i save on the tsl can go into enhanceing the dsl. Could you tell me more about these NOS valves please?? or any advice on valve upgrades and speaker upgrades?? i like a nice warm 'cuddley' clean sounds and as metal as i can get without haveing to buy a pedal. Any advise is very welcome.

Thx

JohnH · 10-29-2009, 09:02 PM

Hi BadMo - I think these are great amps for anything clean, classic or hard rock. There's heaps of gain if you want it, it sounds good with cabs, or without, its loud..etc etc..all good IMO.

I havent changed from stock tubes yet, I did change the speaker to a V30, which was an improvement but the stock one is not bad. The OD channels have a bit of a lack of bass, but EQ in the loop can help a lot.

But heres the but...i dont think it is a great metal amp, although you can play metal on it, it doesnt seem to give that really aggressive low-end chunk, even with EQ, extra cabs etc. This conclusion could be because I just dont know how to play this stuff (im more into classic tones), but i suggest that if metal is your thing, you at least try one out first before buying.

John

MartyStrat54 · 10-29-2009, 11:22 PM

BADMO's needs are different from the OP, TomGuitar9. I would have to say that you probably aren't going to be happy playing hard metal with EL84's. Most real metal heads like a Marshall amp with 6550's or KT88's. You can do it with an EL34 amp, but the tone of the amp will be different. Most metal guys like the clean headroom of the 6550's but then they can tank the front end of the amp with a stout OD pedal, or distortion pedal. To me, that is the real metal sound.

The 401 is a small amp designed for practice/small gigs. It was never designed to be an all out metal amp. I like it for classic rock, college rock and hot blues.

The TSL602 can get closer to the metal sound, but you would really have to play with the EQ and then get you pre/post volumes adjusted. The other thing is that most metal players are using sealed back cabs. Depending on the speaker used, they can get a fat, deep tone and thick mids.

Going off topic. Maybe you should look at some of the Randall Solid State amps that the current metal heads are using. These have the clean and then they have preamp tubes to get "tube overdrive" out of the amp.

Badmo · 10-30-2009, 12:02 PM

Wow thanks for the tips guys, as it happens i have found a shop with both the dsl401 and tsl601 so im going to try them out tommoro morning ( cant wait ) by whats been said i think the tsl will be better for me but i hope to god i can still get good tones at a sociable volume in the house too. @ MartyStrat i have had a look at the randall stuff and would really like one of the RM50's that you can change the pre amp, i think its the pre amp, and get whatever you like but there way out of my price range for now. i will let you guys know how i get on and see what i went for

Badmo · 10-31-2009, 01:00 PM

Yo yo, i got me the tsl 601 today :0 i liked it more than the dsl although the clean was nicer on the dsl the lead on the tsl is awsome, not to impressed at all with the crunch but i dont know if its knackered or not? i can defo get a metal sound out of it, not to chuggy as someone said but i can fix that with a better speaker and im a truly gifted freak with wood so i'll close off the back of the amp somehow, gonna see how much a full marshall service is too, jst to see if it is all fine. I Paid £400 for it you guys think thats a fair price???

Greetz

JohnH · 10-31-2009, 03:41 PM

Congrats - its good that you heard them both together. Just one thing, I would not close in the back of a valve combo, its open so that there is ventilation for the valves.

John

MartyStrat54 · 10-31-2009, 05:16 PM

If it came with a working footswitch the 400 Pounds Sterling is not a bad price.

I think if the amp has stock tubes, you will find out that experimenting with different preamp tubes will help the crunch channel. If it is muddy sounding, you might have a bad preamp tube.

My rule of thumb is to change out all of the tubes when I buy a used amp. Then I know what I have and when I had it.

RiverRatt · 10-31-2009, 06:03 PM

Badmo, you might like a Celestion G12K-100 in the TSL. I've got a couple in open-back cabs and they will handle massive amounts of bass and still have good highs and mids. If solarburn is reading this, I know he likes the G12K-100s, too.

Badmo · 11-01-2009, 05:32 AM

Hey guys, it looks like i got some spending to do now lol ( but everyone like buying stuff huh )

Hi john - Yeah your probs right about that i was so happy to own this thing i did play on it for a good 3hours and it was like i little radiator when i was done so probs a bad idea like you said.

Hey marty yep with a full working pedal with it too, i did think i should put all new valves in but do i put just change the pre amp or power amp or both?? if im totaly honest i dont know what does what?? is it the power amp valves that give the amp its sound??

Hi riverrat, i've had a buchers at this speaker seems as good as the vintage 30 everyones raveing about but cheaper

so i'll get on and have a try gonna be better than the stock one i guess.

Just one more question for everyone - i have an old fx rack a Zoom 1201 but i have never used a fx loop b4 how do i set it in there properly?? i tryed a few things yesterday but nothing worked

im so bummed, even tho the rack is a thousand years old the fx are beautiful and all analoge ( which sounds better than digital imo )

Thx again guys i really do appretae all your input.

ROCK ON!!!!!

paul · 11-01-2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnH

Congrats - its good that you heard them both together. Just one thing, I would not close in the back of a valve combo, its open so that there is ventilation for the valves.

John

a couple of bits of wood to close in the speaker without covering the whole of the back would be ok wouldnt it? that way it still lets the air get into the valves

Badmo · 11-01-2009, 01:41 PM

Hi all will these vlaves work instead of the ECC83's? in the pre amp?? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWAX:IT i swear im gonna stop with all these questions soon lol

357mag · 11-02-2009, 08:54 AM

I don't think you can put any brand tube in the DSL401 other than a JJ. If you read what thetubestore.com has to say about EL84's and the DSL401 you will see what I mean.

MartyStrat54 · 11-02-2009, 12:19 PM

Yeah, that applies to certain EL84's that have a fatter bottle on them. I think you can actually get them to fit, but they are close together and would get too hot. Some of the new 12AX7's are fatter as well. This could prevent the RF can over V1 from fitting. I think this older Tesla/JJ will fit. The EBAY listing states that the tube was tested in a modern, two channel amp.

Badmo · 11-02-2009, 01:35 PM

Hooby groovy im gonna get some and see how they work, i'll let you know how i get on

Badmo · 11-07-2009, 08:16 AM

Hey guys just a quick courtisy update for your help, I got me some JJ Telsa pre amp valves and some EL34L JJ Telsa upgraded Power valves paid a fair bit for them but there in and its biased and OMFG!!!! Beautiful sound now the bass response is bigger and tighter and the mid range is incredibly clear and beautiful, Pinched harmonics squeel much better. and the crunch channel is much much clearer and un-muddy, so there you have it lol. Thx again guys

MartyStrat54 · 11-07-2009, 09:12 PM

Cool. The TESLA stuff was IMO just plain better sounding than a current JJ.

Brian9 · 11-08-2009, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badmo

...I got me some JJ Telsa pre amp valves and some EL34L JJ Telsa upgraded Power valves paid a fair bit for them but there in and.....

You got EL34's to fit in a DSL401???? HOW????

MikeT · 11-08-2009, 11:03 AM

It's a great amp. Mine is a 2001 model so I lowered the bias which should take care of the heat problem, but am considering putting a vent in the top if it still needs it. I also put in a Vintage 30. Anyway, the bottom drops out in the overdrive channels. The sound is fine in the clean channel, round and full but when I kick it into OD the bottom goes away. I have read about guys that put an equalizer in the loop, but I don't want to change the clean channel. I would rather change or add some component on the board that effects just the OD. Like a cathode bypass cap or a coupling cap. I can't seem to find anyone who has dealt with this problem. Has anyone done this?

Badmo · 11-08-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian9

You got EL34's to fit in a DSL401???? HOW????

LOL Its a TSL 601

was looking at the dsl but the tsl pwned it

JohnH · 11-08-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeT

It's a great amp. Mine is a 2001 model so I lowered the bias which should take care of the heat problem, but am considering putting a vent in the top if it still needs it. I also put in a Vintage 30. Anyway, the bottom drops out in the overdrive channels. The sound is fine in the clean channel, round and full but when I kick it into OD the bottom goes away. I have read about guys that put an equalizer in the loop, but I don't want to change the clean channel. I would rather change or add some component on the board that effects just the OD. Like a cathode bypass cap or a coupling cap. I can't seem to find anyone who has dealt with this problem. Has anyone done this?

I havent changed the circuit, but the EQ in the lop actually works as you want, because another quirk of the DSL401 is that the loop is much more sensitive on OD than on clean. So you can add that extra bass on OD and it makes only a small (quite nice) addition to clean channel bass. I have two versions of this approach, one is a patch cable with a resistor and two caps in it tha goes across the loop (see here DSL401 - Bass boosting patch cable ),

I also have an alternative active circuit that gives a more powerfull focussed boost to low bass that I'd be happy to share, again placed in the loop. It is similar to an EQ box set to boost only low bass and cut everything else.

John

07-21-2009, 12:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
TomGuitar9 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 6	Marshall DSL 401 Combo Ok so im looking into getting my first tube amp and the dsl combo caught my attention. Im looking for that good marshall tone and I play lots of classic and hard rock. I'll be using it for small gigs too. Will I need an extension cab for it in that case? Also is it worth to swap out the stock tubes and speaker? And how does it compare to the tsl combo?

10-29-2009, 07:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
Badmo Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Durham, England Posts: 27	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo Hi hi i stumbled on this thread and it has helped my alot already i was 'am' torn between the dsl401 and tsl602 but i figure the cash i save on the tsl can go into enhanceing the dsl. Could you tell me more about these NOS valves please?? or any advice on valve upgrades and speaker upgrades?? i like a nice warm 'cuddley' clean sounds and as metal as i can get without haveing to buy a pedal. Any advise is very welcome. Thx

10-29-2009, 09:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
JohnH Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 639	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo Hi BadMo - I think these are great amps for anything clean, classic or hard rock. There's heaps of gain if you want it, it sounds good with cabs, or without, its loud..etc etc..all good IMO. I havent changed from stock tubes yet, I did change the speaker to a V30, which was an improvement but the stock one is not bad. The OD channels have a bit of a lack of bass, but EQ in the loop can help a lot. But heres the but...i dont think it is a great metal amp, although you can play metal on it, it doesnt seem to give that really aggressive low-end chunk, even with EQ, extra cabs etc. This conclusion could be because I just dont know how to play this stuff (im more into classic tones), but i suggest that if metal is your thing, you at least try one out first before buying. John __________________ DSL401 8412 cab Crate Powerblock 1 x 12 Vintage 30 cab '76 Shergold Masquerader '93 Les Paul Studio '83 Roadstar

10-29-2009, 11:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo BADMO's needs are different from the OP, TomGuitar9. I would have to say that you probably aren't going to be happy playing hard metal with EL84's. Most real metal heads like a Marshall amp with 6550's or KT88's. You can do it with an EL34 amp, but the tone of the amp will be different. Most metal guys like the clean headroom of the 6550's but then they can tank the front end of the amp with a stout OD pedal, or distortion pedal. To me, that is the real metal sound. The 401 is a small amp designed for practice/small gigs. It was never designed to be an all out metal amp. I like it for classic rock, college rock and hot blues. The TSL602 can get closer to the metal sound, but you would really have to play with the EQ and then get you pre/post volumes adjusted. The other thing is that most metal players are using sealed back cabs. Depending on the speaker used, they can get a fat, deep tone and thick mids. Going off topic. Maybe you should look at some of the Randall Solid State amps that the current metal heads are using. These have the clean and then they have preamp tubes to get "tube overdrive" out of the amp. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-30-2009, 12:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
Badmo Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Durham, England Posts: 27	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo Wow thanks for the tips guys, as it happens i have found a shop with both the dsl401 and tsl601 so im going to try them out tommoro morning ( cant wait ) by whats been said i think the tsl will be better for me but i hope to god i can still get good tones at a sociable volume in the house too. @ MartyStrat i have had a look at the randall stuff and would really like one of the RM50's that you can change the pre amp, i think its the pre amp, and get whatever you like but there way out of my price range for now. i will let you guys know how i get on and see what i went for

10-31-2009, 01:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
Badmo Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Durham, England Posts: 27	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo Yo yo, i got me the tsl 601 today :0 i liked it more than the dsl although the clean was nicer on the dsl the lead on the tsl is awsome, not to impressed at all with the crunch but i dont know if its knackered or not? i can defo get a metal sound out of it, not to chuggy as someone said but i can fix that with a better speaker and im a truly gifted freak with wood so i'll close off the back of the amp somehow, gonna see how much a full marshall service is too, jst to see if it is all fine. I Paid £400 for it you guys think thats a fair price??? Greetz

10-31-2009, 03:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
JohnH Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 639	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo Congrats - its good that you heard them both together. Just one thing, I would not close in the back of a valve combo, its open so that there is ventilation for the valves. John __________________ DSL401 8412 cab Crate Powerblock 1 x 12 Vintage 30 cab '76 Shergold Masquerader '93 Les Paul Studio '83 Roadstar

10-31-2009, 05:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo If it came with a working footswitch the 400 Pounds Sterling is not a bad price. I think if the amp has stock tubes, you will find out that experimenting with different preamp tubes will help the crunch channel. If it is muddy sounding, you might have a bad preamp tube. My rule of thumb is to change out all of the tubes when I buy a used amp. Then I know what I have and when I had it. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-31-2009, 06:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
RiverRatt Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Between Memphis and Nashville Posts: 517	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo Badmo, you might like a Celestion G12K-100 in the TSL. I've got a couple in open-back cabs and they will handle massive amounts of bass and still have good highs and mids. If solarburn is reading this, I know he likes the G12K-100s, too.

11-01-2009, 05:32 AM	#11 (permalink)
Badmo Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Durham, England Posts: 27	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo Hey guys, it looks like i got some spending to do now lol ( but everyone like buying stuff huh ) Hi john - Yeah your probs right about that i was so happy to own this thing i did play on it for a good 3hours and it was like i little radiator when i was done so probs a bad idea like you said. Hey marty yep with a full working pedal with it too, i did think i should put all new valves in but do i put just change the pre amp or power amp or both?? if im totaly honest i dont know what does what?? is it the power amp valves that give the amp its sound?? Hi riverrat, i've had a buchers at this speaker seems as good as the vintage 30 everyones raveing about but cheaper so i'll get on and have a try gonna be better than the stock one i guess. Just one more question for everyone - i have an old fx rack a Zoom 1201 but i have never used a fx loop b4 how do i set it in there properly?? i tryed a few things yesterday but nothing worked im so bummed, even tho the rack is a thousand years old the fx are beautiful and all analoge ( which sounds better than digital imo ) Thx again guys i really do appretae all your input. ROCK ON!!!!!

11-01-2009, 01:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
Badmo Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Durham, England Posts: 27	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo Hi all will these vlaves work instead of the ECC83's? in the pre amp?? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWAX:IT i swear im gonna stop with all these questions soon lol Last edited by Badmo; 11-01-2009 at 02:55 PM.

11-02-2009, 08:54 AM	#14 (permalink)
357mag Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 141	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo I don't think you can put any brand tube in the DSL401 other than a JJ. If you read what thetubestore.com has to say about EL84's and the DSL401 you will see what I mean.

11-02-2009, 12:19 PM	#15 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo Yeah, that applies to certain EL84's that have a fatter bottle on them. I think you can actually get them to fit, but they are close together and would get too hot. Some of the new 12AX7's are fatter as well. This could prevent the RF can over V1 from fitting. I think this older Tesla/JJ will fit. The EBAY listing states that the tube was tested in a modern, two channel amp. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

11-02-2009, 01:35 PM	#16 (permalink)
Badmo Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Durham, England Posts: 27	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo Hooby groovy im gonna get some and see how they work, i'll let you know how i get on

11-07-2009, 08:16 AM	#17 (permalink)
Badmo Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Durham, England Posts: 27	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo Hey guys just a quick courtisy update for your help, I got me some JJ Telsa pre amp valves and some EL34L JJ Telsa upgraded Power valves paid a fair bit for them but there in and its biased and OMFG!!!! Beautiful sound now the bass response is bigger and tighter and the mid range is incredibly clear and beautiful, Pinched harmonics squeel much better. and the crunch channel is much much clearer and un-muddy, so there you have it lol. Thx again guys

11-07-2009, 09:12 PM	#18 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo Cool. The TESLA stuff was IMO just plain better sounding than a current JJ. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

11-08-2009, 11:03 AM	#20 (permalink)
MikeT Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1	Re: Marshall DSL 401 Combo It's a great amp. Mine is a 2001 model so I lowered the bias which should take care of the heat problem, but am considering putting a vent in the top if it still needs it. I also put in a Vintage 30. Anyway, the bottom drops out in the overdrive channels. The sound is fine in the clean channel, round and full but when I kick it into OD the bottom goes away. I have read about guys that put an equalizer in the loop, but I don't want to change the clean channel. I would rather change or add some component on the board that effects just the OD. Like a cathode bypass cap or a coupling cap. I can't seem to find anyone who has dealt with this problem. Has anyone done this?

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