Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked?

rockinr0ll · 07-03-2009, 11:25 PM

This is just a random discussion I wanted to post instead of all the daily amp problem questions...

Do you think Marshall Amplifiers have already peaked in the 80's or do you still see a long line of Marshall's continuing to be used after Jim's death (heaven forbid).

A lot of the younger bands have switched over to Mesa Boogie and some of the older folks have turned to boutique style amps. So is there still a place for Marshall?

... I hope!

(I would add a poll but couldn't find how.)

Jesstaa · 07-04-2009, 12:05 AM

I've seen a few Marshalls doing the rounds, but not as much as they used to, I myself will stick by Marshall until it becomes to hard to keep using them/they become to rare to use on the road.

So basically, yes, Marshalls have peaked, now it's down to the Marshall fanatics and experimenting new musicians who use them.

Although, the new wave of thrash metal starting up in L.A may bring back some Marshalls, as long as it is as true to the old school thrash as I hope.

crossroadsnyc · 07-04-2009, 12:49 AM

That's sort of like asking if people will stop playing LP's once Les Paul passes on. The short answer is no.

Regarding Marshall having peaked, here's a recent post from Steve Dawson on the VM forum regarding Robin Trower: "I have just been informed that Robin loves the Vintage Modern and has called it "the best amp to come out of Marshall since the 70s". He contacted us and was raving about it. I knew it was only a matter of time"

He's not the only high profile player to say essentially the same thing about the VM ... that it's quite possibly not only the best amp they've put out in decades, but is perhaps one of the finest amps they've ever made (note I said ONE of ... I'm not saying this to start a debate over the best ever, which is always an individual thing anyway). Having played examples of Marshall amps from every decade, I'd be inclined to agree however ... it's a great modern example of excellence from Marshall.

Anyway, I could go on and on with current examples of great Marshall amps (my 1974x being another damn fine example) that will remain a significant part of the landscape for a very long time. If an amp was relevant back in the 60's/70's, or even 80's, and is still relevant today, then it has proven staying power. There are teenagers today worldwide who are still trying to copy the tones of early Clapton, Angus Young, Hendrix and Slash (as 4 mainstream examples) all these years later ... guys who generally speaking were far before their time. Lets see how many of these younger guys you speak of fooling around w/Mesa and the like have millions of kids trying to copy their tone in 40 years from today. My guess is the number will be fewer than people still trying to cop the Clapton/Young/Hendrix/Slash tones another 40 years from now.

As for boutique amps, they certainly have their place and will likely remain a popular alternative to something like a real Marshall. That said, boutique amps are still copies ... and while some of them sound very nice, they are still nothing more than the builders idea of what a "Marshall" should sound like ... you can have several interpretations, but you can only have one real Marshall ... I for one prefer the sound of a real Marshall to that of someone else's interpretation of one.

There are other great amp manufacturers out there, but be rest assured ... Marshall isn't going anywhere.

ptate · 07-04-2009, 03:18 AM

Can't be that bad as I believe Satch has just signed up for using the JVM in his new "super"group................

Just think, some of the most defining tones of the last 50 years:

Clapton- Marshall
Hendrix- Marshall
Rhoads- Marshall
EVH- Marshall
Slash- Marshall
Malmsteen- Marshall
Metallica- Marshall
Slayer- Marshall
Zakk Wylde- Marshall

The list is endless. Ask any decent young player who they want to emulate; bet it's a Marshall player.......

This is where I stir it up now........Jim's gear now seems to entice the players who want to develop technique, enjoy the music that enveloped the need to employ skill in wringing true tone from their instruments and like the pure sound of their guitar.

There are other things to think about. I read an interview with Hetfield one time about his Les Paul Custom. He spoke to Gibson about a signature and they wanted him to "jump through so many hoops" that he got ESP to make a copy(ish) that was less hassle. Same with Trivium and Gibson; they couldn't get sponsorship. So they go elsewhere, their fans follow suit and buy different equipment. Add to that that each of us has a different preference both in tone and aesthetics and the fact that there are more manufacturers on the planet, it seems less of a "peaked" issue than just choice/finances/emulation.

Further to this, younger players want to "learn" and exploit their skills quickly (a society problem), so they like to employ very hi-gain, effects and reverb (not necessarily something Marshall is known for), so they buy multi-channel, FX laden units in the hope they can remove deficiences form their playing that way. There is an exception, namely some of the new blues hounds who like clean. However, they seem to stick with Fenders etc. In addition, it is the old "sheep" syndrome- oh, he/she uses a Mesa/other, so I want one too....

I, personally, have gone from a reverb drenched gain monster to a pure, clean '82 JCM800 2204 user with one pedal that was specifically designed to enhance the mids/highs of the amp. It means my technique has had to improve a great deal and it has. It also pays-off in terms of clarity in my tone and the fact that I now have my "own" voice through the unit.

Just my thoughts........

Jesstaa · 07-04-2009, 04:46 AM

You forgot Megadeth in that list, their early tones, along with Metallicas, of course, shaped the whole thrash metal tone.

Fuck, basically all L.A Thrash bands used hotted up Plexi's and 800's.

hmstrat · 07-04-2009, 11:00 AM

The market is fickle, and many great brands of amps and guitars have come and gone thru the years - usually due to failed MARKETING STRATEGIES.
IMO, "Marshall" (as a RESPECTED name) will be around as long as that company can refrain from further tarnishing their image by releasing those cheap-to-make products not manufactured in England - Why??? Well - 'cause Marshall personifies "The British Sound" more than any other amp... Not "The Indian Sound"... and certainly not "The Chinese Sound"...

P.S. - Also, I can't help but feel like I got screwed by Marshall on my original DSL100 purchase, as the MSRP of the re-issue is so much LESS now than what I paid... WTF is up with that marketing strategy??? Is that sending a message that their amps were grossly OVERPRICED to begin with???

PaoloJM · 07-04-2009, 11:06 AM

I think there is definitley a future for Marshall.
There are some great designers and inovative ideas still there, the VM prooves this.
I think it will boil down to how much control the bean counters will have over the companies direction in the future.
Marshall built it's name building great sounding, rock solid amps founded on solid, reliable designs.
They've have a few duff amps since then, but these were largely influenced by economics over tone.
Once the bean counters keep to counting beans and allow the design team to do it's thang they'll be fine.

tarznamps · 07-04-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmstrat

P.S. - Also, I can't help but feel like I got screwed by Marshall on my original DSL100 purchase, as the MSRP of the re-issue is so much LESS now than what I paid... WTF is up with that marketing strategy??? Is that sending a message that their amps were grossly OVERPRICED to begin with???

You hear that a lot with electronics buyers. In almost every case - when you buy electronics - the price will go down or you get more for your money when the next generation comes out. IE: computers, iPhones, cars, etc.

It is unusual to see in a tube amp. However, the DSL100 is Marshall's all-time best selling amp. They have made millions in profit on this item, recouped all R&D and now it's just parts cost plus profit=selling price.

It is still the best value of any Marshall that I know of at less than a grand for the head.

American Viking · 07-04-2009, 12:03 PM

Marshall is still the number one selling amplifier in the world. They'll keep making great amps, but you gotta think about it though... Referring to a "peak" doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. Marshall made great amps back in the day that are sought after, but those amps require a little bit of knowledge to squeeze the best tone out of them. You all know that, how many beginners are out there buying plexi's and super happy with them? Them and the average bedroom player, weekend warrior and hobbyist make up the largest portion of consumers and that's why they sell so much stuff that tone snobs and professionals scoff at.
They still make those great products though, the 1959SLP, 1987x, JCM800 and now the JCM900. It will only be a matter of time before the Jube comes back along with a version of the 6100 but they're waiting on the used market to get hungry so they'll sell when they get released. I'm not a psychic though that's just a guess.

HOT TUBES 70 · 07-04-2009, 12:28 PM

don't worry !! marshall will be around for a long long time !!

zslane · 07-04-2009, 12:46 PM

I don't know what the actual percentages are, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that, from year to year, about 30% of Marshall's business comes from selling the tried-and-true high-end stuff, while 70% comes from chasing the fad of the day in the lower-end arena. The 30% is obviously aimed at the professional gigging musicians and the wealthy dilettantes, but it is also important for when youngsters mature to appreciate the good stuff (and can afford it), and is what Marshall built (and continues to build) their reputation on. The Vintage Modern is proof that Marshall does not rest on its laurels here. But if it weren't for that other 70%, Marshall probably wouldn't still be in business, and might never have survived long enough to give us the VM.

As long as Marshall is wise enough to keep an unbroken succession of high-end tone monsters available (including re-issues of the legendary models), and smart enough to cover all market segments, including the low-end faddish stuff, they will be around for as long as guitars continue to need amplification.

ptate · 07-05-2009, 02:32 AM

Lots of good thoughts on this thread, but I suppose it comes down to your senses: does it look good, sound good and feel good to you. Whilst more "whistles and bells" are great initially, you soon realise that you don't really need them (unless you're The Edge....!) and that's where Jim's best products really win; solid, reliable workhorses with a long history of development.

Word has it (I sound like Huggy bear..!) that Marshall are really "on it" at the moment and have some amazing ideas in the pipeline. There is also a proposed 5W handwired, UK made head due later this year (I'm reliably told) to catch up on the latest fad for small, boutique tube amps; so they seem to be sticking with the development side somewhat.

Just as an aside; in business, isn't it better to be a long-term player with reliable income than a quick "buck" seller, chasing the latest fad? Marshall can do both, as they have the established units, history and capabilities to cover; so "peak" sales shouldn't really form part of their business equation.

Webslinger · 07-06-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockinr0ll

Do you think Marshall Amplifiers have already peaked in the 80's or do you still see a long line of Marshall's continuing to be used after Jim's death (heaven forbid).

After the passing of a company's founder, you usually see significant changes.
Sometimes for the better, sometimes not. If the company stays within the family the quality should remain for at least another generation (although "grandsons" sometimes ruin businesses or sell-off completely).
I'd like to see retail prices for North American exports kept under control, and maybe better quality of the low-end lines. I'd hate to see Marshall become a boutique-only name on the hi-end, if they become too expensive & rare to be used on the road.
I wouldnt mind seeing expansion into pro-audio or even home stereo. That would be interesting.

Jesstaa · 07-06-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webslinger

After the passing of a company's founder, you usually see significant changes.
Sometimes for the better, sometimes not. If the company stays within the family the quality should remain for at least another generation (although "grandsons" sometimes ruin businesses or sell-off completely).
I'd like to see retail prices for North American exports kept under control, and maybe better quality of the low-end lines. I'd hate to see Marshall become a boutique-only name on the hi-end, if they become too expensive & rare to be used on the road.
I wouldnt mind seeing expansion into pro-audio or even home stereo. That would be interesting.

Lol, if you don't like the US prices, don't look at Australian prices. It's fair you have to pay a little more for something great.

In Australia, everything is known to be more expensive for shipping reasons, and then stores take advantage of this and mark it up soooo bloody high.

IE Jackson KV2 - RRP In the US, like $2800. Over here in Australia, Retails at about $4500 US.

And Marshall is staying in the family, his son is the main dude now anyway I believe.

MartyStrat54 · 07-06-2009, 03:42 PM

In a ways, Marshall's worst enemy is itself. When someone wants to buy a Marshall, they consider "used" one's as well. So instead of buying a current model, someone may buy a 6100LM or an 800. There are a lot of used Marshall amps that are sold each month and this effects the total volume of new Marshall's that are sold.

Price is another factor. Used Marshall's such as the DSL and TSL are being sold to players who want an all tube Marshall, but are on a budget. The deals on these amps are so good right now, that I'm sure it is effecting new model sales.

Lastly, Marshall's legacy has an effect on sales. Some players intentionally seek out a certain amp to fulfill their playing style. Their favorite guitarist may be using a JTM and so they look to find one to buy.

There's no disputing how large the used Marshall pool is. These amps get wheeled and dealed on a regular basis. Some people are willing to spend excessive amounts of cash to obtain the Marshall of their dreams...and it's not a new one.

Marty

Webslinger · 07-06-2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesstaa

Lol, if you don't like the US prices, don't look at Australian prices. In Australia, everything is known to be more expensive for shipping reasons, and then stores take advantage of this and mark it up soooo bloody high.

Oh I know...and I dont envy you. But I also hear that Marshall prices are ridiculous in Scandanavia, only a few hundred miles away. So they cant blame shipping there? Maybe import taxes? I dunno?
How are the Australian prices for good Japanese equipment..like Yamaha & Ibanez?

riffdrive · 07-06-2009, 08:27 PM

No one can honestly say whether or not Marshall has peaked, since I don't think any of us are in possession of a crystal ball. Just an aside, if you ARE in possession of a crystal ball, please PM me with the winning numbers for the next Mega Millions drawing kthx.

I think Marshall is going about things the right way now. They are trying to cater to vastly different market segments, and they're doing it well. That means that whether you have a $200 budget or a $4000 budget, Marshall has an amp for you.

I think the Haze was an attempt to cash in on the newly popular lower-wattage amp market, although I think they missed the mark because the attractiveness of the lower-wattage amps is that they are PTP-wired and the focus is on quality and tone. Obviously if quality was their number one concern, they'd be building the Haze in-house instead of farming it out.

I'm excited because I've heard in several places that Marshall may soon bless us with an honest to goodness point-to-point handwired low wattage boutique amp with genuine Marshall tone (which will hopefully have a design that will be friendly to modders and hot rodders). The Haze is likely a fine amp, but I'm going to save my pennies in hopes that someday I'll be able to buy a real 5-watt all-tube Marshall that's not loaded down with crappy digital reverb, an effects loop I'll never use, or other various tone-suckers.

zslane · 07-06-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riffdrive

I think the Haze was an attempt to cash in on the newly popular lower-wattage amp market, although I think they missed the mark because the attractiveness of the lower-wattage amps is that they are PTP-wired and the focus is on quality and tone.

I find it interesting to note that Fender did not see fit to enter this market segment (i.e., a 15W all-tube mini-head with vintage tone) themselves...

ptate · 07-07-2009, 07:06 AM

Thought Fender had already been part of it with the tiny 5W Champion and their current range of tweeds etc?

Jesstaa · 07-07-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webslinger

Oh I know...and I dont envy you. But I also hear that Marshall prices are ridiculous in Scandanavia, only a few hundred miles away. So they cant blame shipping there? Maybe import taxes? I dunno?
How are the Australian prices for good Japanese equipment..like Yamaha & Ibanez?

Ibanez are expensive, but not too much so, and Yamaha are dirt cheap.

Another problem with the prices in Australia is, income can tend to be lower.

rockinr0ll · 07-07-2009, 10:46 AM

Yamaha Guitars rule! Way more bang for the buck then any other company IMO. I can't believe that more people don't buy them.

bloosman1 · 07-08-2009, 09:16 AM

Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked?
Has Rolls Royce 'peaked'?
Has Mercedes Benze 'peaked'?
Has Jaguar 'peaked'

My point is, as long as they're made the best, they will be the best.

jcmjmp · 07-08-2009, 10:00 AM

Current production Marshalls are all about most bang for the buck with some sacrifices in tone and quality. Looking at it from that angle, Marshall has peaked 25 years ago, or somewhere around that era.

I like my 1997 DSL even though it was made after the peak - Its a good amp for what it was designed to do. I don't like much of what came after the DSL though.

To me, the current Marshall lineup leaves a lot to be desired. I'd much rather have a Metropoulos, Blackstar, Orange, Soldano, Bogner, Egnater etc...

The Vintage Modern seems like a step in the right direction but with its fickle effects loop and digital effects, and tonally, its nothing special. I'll pass. I'd rather get a proper JTM 45.

Ken · 07-08-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crossroadsnyc

As for boutique amps, they certainly have their place and will likely remain a popular alternative to something like a real Marshall. That said, boutique amps are still copies ... and while some of them sound very nice, they are still nothing more than the builders idea of what a "Marshall" should sound like ... :

I think botique amps are best for recording; they are quiet at what passes for "volume" and easy to carry. But on stage they're too easy to trip over. I want a stack!

Ken

JohnH · 07-08-2009, 04:58 PM

I think Marshall are on a roll. In the last two years, we have seen several completley new ranges of amps, all better than before, including JVMs, VMs, MG4s and now Haze, all sitting well in their market sectors. Some of the Classic designs are still being made too and the brand image continues to be bolstered by the music both old and new and also the secondhand market for the old amps.

Ken · 07-09-2009, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnH

I think Marshall are on a roll. In the last two years, we have seen several completley new ranges of amps, all better than before, including JVMs, VMs, MG4s and now Haze, all sitting well in their market sectors. Some of the Classic designs are still being made too and the brand image continues to be bolstered by the music both old and new and also the secondhand market for the old amps.

I agree. When Marshall foisted all those awful solid state amps on us....that was the low point. Used prices for them reflect the lack of enthusiasm by the community for them. Their 21st century amps are the best ever. No diode clipping, lots of gain, usable features (mostly). There's a few issues like the dodgy effect loop of the JVM's, the bad batch of TSL's which they've addressed, and the stupid pedal switching on the DSL which they haven't, but the sound quality is so good that the new generation of Marshalls are truly great amps. And they're not even that expensive!

Ken

jcmjmp · 07-09-2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken

I agree. When Marshall foisted all those awful solid state amps on us....that was the low point.
... SNIP ...
No diode clipping, lots of gain, usable features (mostly).
Ken

Marshall came out with the solid state amps in the early 80's and some of them weren't too bad but they weren't great either. I have a Lead 12 combo at home which is nice for distorted tones.

The solid state amps came out in the same period as the JCM 800 2203/2204 and Silver Jubilee 2550/2550.

The Silver Jubilee has diode clipping and is considered to be one of the best Marshalls ever made.

gtrman · 07-09-2009, 09:37 AM

I personally like the way they are combining old with new. Making reissues of popular mainstays like JCM800 and JCM900 (and including effect loops !!)
At the same time coming out with an amp like the VM which for the price is just an awsome tube-amp.

I see no signs of slowing down ...

jcmjmp · 07-09-2009, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtrman

I personally like the way they are combining old with new. Making reissues of popular mainstays like JCM800 and JCM900 (and including effect loops !!)
At the same time coming out with an amp like the VM which for the price is just an awsome tube-amp.

I see no signs of slowing down ...

The problem is that those re-issues don't have that same tone and/or quality as what was originally produced. They're putting out approximations of the old stuff, particularly the 1959, 1987, and EL84 based amps.

To me, the simple fact that they're putting out re-issues shows that Marshall knows that some of their best designs are behind them.

gtrman · 07-09-2009, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmjmp

The problem is that those re-issues don't have that same tone and/or quality as what was originally produced. They're putting out approximations of the old stuff, particularly the 1959, 1987, and EL84 based amps.

To me, the simple fact that they're putting out re-issues shows that Marshall knows that some of their best designs are behind them.

Maybe not the same quality but some of those reissues sound pretty good to me.
As far as "best design are behind them" can be looked at both ways. Their newer models sells good and at the same time there is a marked for the older models which Marshall might as well be a part of. This is good for us consumers since we don't have to overpay for vintage amps ...

Fender seems to be doing pretty much the same thing with their amp lines ...

07-03-2009, 11:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
rockinr0ll Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,340	Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? This is just a random discussion I wanted to post instead of all the daily amp problem questions... Do you think Marshall Amplifiers have already peaked in the 80's or do you still see a long line of Marshall's continuing to be used after Jim's death (heaven forbid). A lot of the younger bands have switched over to Mesa Boogie and some of the older folks have turned to boutique style amps. So is there still a place for Marshall? ... I hope! (I would add a poll but couldn't find how.)

07-04-2009, 12:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
Jesstaa Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Gippsland, Vic, Australia. Posts: 797	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? I've seen a few Marshalls doing the rounds, but not as much as they used to, I myself will stick by Marshall until it becomes to hard to keep using them/they become to rare to use on the road. So basically, yes, Marshalls have peaked, now it's down to the Marshall fanatics and experimenting new musicians who use them. Although, the new wave of thrash metal starting up in L.A may bring back some Marshalls, as long as it is as true to the old school thrash as I hope. __________________ GEAR LIST Marshall JCM900 4100 (6L6) (1995) Marshall Valvestate 1965A cab (????) Cort VX-2V (2008) TUBES/SPEAKERS Power: Groove Tube 6L6GCB Phase Inverter: Sovtek 7025 Pre: V1 - N.O.S Mullard ECC83. V2 National 12AX7A Speakers: Celestion G10L-35 Marshall forever My tube amp & Real Music appreciation forum

07-04-2009, 12:49 AM	#3 (permalink)
crossroadsnyc Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 312	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? That's sort of like asking if people will stop playing LP's once Les Paul passes on. The short answer is no. Regarding Marshall having peaked, here's a recent post from Steve Dawson on the VM forum regarding Robin Trower: "I have just been informed that Robin loves the Vintage Modern and has called it "the best amp to come out of Marshall since the 70s". He contacted us and was raving about it. I knew it was only a matter of time" He's not the only high profile player to say essentially the same thing about the VM ... that it's quite possibly not only the best amp they've put out in decades, but is perhaps one of the finest amps they've ever made (note I said ONE of ... I'm not saying this to start a debate over the best ever, which is always an individual thing anyway). Having played examples of Marshall amps from every decade, I'd be inclined to agree however ... it's a great modern example of excellence from Marshall. Anyway, I could go on and on with current examples of great Marshall amps (my 1974x being another damn fine example) that will remain a significant part of the landscape for a very long time. If an amp was relevant back in the 60's/70's, or even 80's, and is still relevant today, then it has proven staying power. There are teenagers today worldwide who are still trying to copy the tones of early Clapton, Angus Young, Hendrix and Slash (as 4 mainstream examples) all these years later ... guys who generally speaking were far before their time. Lets see how many of these younger guys you speak of fooling around w/Mesa and the like have millions of kids trying to copy their tone in 40 years from today. My guess is the number will be fewer than people still trying to cop the Clapton/Young/Hendrix/Slash tones another 40 years from now. As for boutique amps, they certainly have their place and will likely remain a popular alternative to something like a real Marshall. That said, boutique amps are still copies ... and while some of them sound very nice, they are still nothing more than the builders idea of what a "Marshall" should sound like ... you can have several interpretations, but you can only have one real Marshall ... I for one prefer the sound of a real Marshall to that of someone else's interpretation of one. There are other great amp manufacturers out there, but be rest assured ... Marshall isn't going anywhere.

07-04-2009, 03:18 AM	#4 (permalink)
ptate Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 107	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? Can't be that bad as I believe Satch has just signed up for using the JVM in his new "super"group................ Just think, some of the most defining tones of the last 50 years: Clapton- Marshall Hendrix- Marshall Rhoads- Marshall EVH- Marshall Slash- Marshall Malmsteen- Marshall Metallica- Marshall Slayer- Marshall Zakk Wylde- Marshall The list is endless. Ask any decent young player who they want to emulate; bet it's a Marshall player....... This is where I stir it up now........Jim's gear now seems to entice the players who want to develop technique, enjoy the music that enveloped the need to employ skill in wringing true tone from their instruments and like the pure sound of their guitar. There are other things to think about. I read an interview with Hetfield one time about his Les Paul Custom. He spoke to Gibson about a signature and they wanted him to "jump through so many hoops" that he got ESP to make a copy(ish) that was less hassle. Same with Trivium and Gibson; they couldn't get sponsorship. So they go elsewhere, their fans follow suit and buy different equipment. Add to that that each of us has a different preference both in tone and aesthetics and the fact that there are more manufacturers on the planet, it seems less of a "peaked" issue than just choice/finances/emulation. Further to this, younger players want to "learn" and exploit their skills quickly (a society problem), so they like to employ very hi-gain, effects and reverb (not necessarily something Marshall is known for), so they buy multi-channel, FX laden units in the hope they can remove deficiences form their playing that way. There is an exception, namely some of the new blues hounds who like clean. However, they seem to stick with Fenders etc. In addition, it is the old "sheep" syndrome- oh, he/she uses a Mesa/other, so I want one too.... I, personally, have gone from a reverb drenched gain monster to a pure, clean '82 JCM800 2204 user with one pedal that was specifically designed to enhance the mids/highs of the amp. It means my technique has had to improve a great deal and it has. It also pays-off in terms of clarity in my tone and the fact that I now have my "own" voice through the unit. Just my thoughts........ __________________ www.pnpmusic.co.uk Handmade pedals built for tone.

07-04-2009, 04:46 AM	#5 (permalink)
Jesstaa Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Gippsland, Vic, Australia. Posts: 797	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? You forgot Megadeth in that list, their early tones, along with Metallicas, of course, shaped the whole thrash metal tone. Fuck, basically all L.A Thrash bands used hotted up Plexi's and 800's. __________________ GEAR LIST Marshall JCM900 4100 (6L6) (1995) Marshall Valvestate 1965A cab (????) Cort VX-2V (2008) TUBES/SPEAKERS Power: Groove Tube 6L6GCB Phase Inverter: Sovtek 7025 Pre: V1 - N.O.S Mullard ECC83. V2 National 12AX7A Speakers: Celestion G10L-35 Marshall forever My tube amp & Real Music appreciation forum

07-04-2009, 11:00 AM	#6 (permalink)
hmstrat Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 65	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? The market is fickle, and many great brands of amps and guitars have come and gone thru the years - usually due to failed MARKETING STRATEGIES. IMO, "Marshall" (as a RESPECTED name) will be around as long as that company can refrain from further tarnishing their image by releasing those cheap-to-make products not manufactured in England - Why??? Well - 'cause Marshall personifies "The British Sound" more than any other amp... Not "The Indian Sound"... and certainly not "The Chinese Sound"... P.S. - Also, I can't help but feel like I got screwed by Marshall on my original DSL100 purchase, as the MSRP of the re-issue is so much LESS now than what I paid... WTF is up with that marketing strategy??? Is that sending a message that their amps were grossly OVERPRICED to begin with??? __________________ JCM 900 MKIII (2500) ... JTM 622 ... DSL 401 ... DSL 100 LP Standard, Strat, Tele, Tele, Erlewine Automatic, HM Strat

07-04-2009, 11:06 AM	#7 (permalink)
PaoloJM Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Cork, Ireland Posts: 534	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? I think there is definitley a future for Marshall. There are some great designers and inovative ideas still there, the VM prooves this. I think it will boil down to how much control the bean counters will have over the companies direction in the future. Marshall built it's name building great sounding, rock solid amps founded on solid, reliable designs. They've have a few duff amps since then, but these were largely influenced by economics over tone. Once the bean counters keep to counting beans and allow the design team to do it's thang they'll be fine. __________________ www.youtube.com/paolojm

07-04-2009, 12:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 1,510	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? Marshall is still the number one selling amplifier in the world. They'll keep making great amps, but you gotta think about it though... Referring to a "peak" doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. Marshall made great amps back in the day that are sought after, but those amps require a little bit of knowledge to squeeze the best tone out of them. You all know that, how many beginners are out there buying plexi's and super happy with them? Them and the average bedroom player, weekend warrior and hobbyist make up the largest portion of consumers and that's why they sell so much stuff that tone snobs and professionals scoff at. They still make those great products though, the 1959SLP, 1987x, JCM800 and now the JCM900. It will only be a matter of time before the Jube comes back along with a version of the 6100 but they're waiting on the used market to get hungry so they'll sell when they get released. I'm not a psychic though that's just a guess. __________________ -I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

07-04-2009, 12:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
HOT TUBES 70 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,675	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? don't worry !! marshall will be around for a long long time !! __________________ MARSHALL 6100LM MARSHALL 1960A W/-G12H 30's CUSTOM BUILT 2X12 W/-V30's "MARSHALL" - only the best will do !

07-04-2009, 12:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
zslane Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 286	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? I don't know what the actual percentages are, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that, from year to year, about 30% of Marshall's business comes from selling the tried-and-true high-end stuff, while 70% comes from chasing the fad of the day in the lower-end arena. The 30% is obviously aimed at the professional gigging musicians and the wealthy dilettantes, but it is also important for when youngsters mature to appreciate the good stuff (and can afford it), and is what Marshall built (and continues to build) their reputation on. The Vintage Modern is proof that Marshall does not rest on its laurels here. But if it weren't for that other 70%, Marshall probably wouldn't still be in business, and might never have survived long enough to give us the VM. As long as Marshall is wise enough to keep an unbroken succession of high-end tone monsters available (including re-issues of the legendary models), and smart enough to cover all market segments, including the low-end faddish stuff, they will be around for as long as guitars continue to need amplification. __________________ JCM2000 DSL-100 head + 1960A 4x12 cab 30th Anniversary 6100 head JCM2000 DSL-401 combo Les Paul Standards ('96 Goldtop, '99 Ebony, '03 Honeyburst) Les Paul Custom ('04 Alpine White w/ gold hardware) Les Paul Supreme ('07 Trans Black w/ black hardware)

07-05-2009, 02:32 AM	#12 (permalink)
ptate Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 107	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? Lots of good thoughts on this thread, but I suppose it comes down to your senses: does it look good, sound good and feel good to you. Whilst more "whistles and bells" are great initially, you soon realise that you don't really need them (unless you're The Edge....!) and that's where Jim's best products really win; solid, reliable workhorses with a long history of development. Word has it (I sound like Huggy bear..!) that Marshall are really "on it" at the moment and have some amazing ideas in the pipeline. There is also a proposed 5W handwired, UK made head due later this year (I'm reliably told) to catch up on the latest fad for small, boutique tube amps; so they seem to be sticking with the development side somewhat. Just as an aside; in business, isn't it better to be a long-term player with reliable income than a quick "buck" seller, chasing the latest fad? Marshall can do both, as they have the established units, history and capabilities to cover; so "peak" sales shouldn't really form part of their business equation. __________________ www.pnpmusic.co.uk Handmade pedals built for tone.

07-06-2009, 03:42 PM	#15 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,582	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? In a ways, Marshall's worst enemy is itself. When someone wants to buy a Marshall, they consider "used" one's as well. So instead of buying a current model, someone may buy a 6100LM or an 800. There are a lot of used Marshall amps that are sold each month and this effects the total volume of new Marshall's that are sold. Price is another factor. Used Marshall's such as the DSL and TSL are being sold to players who want an all tube Marshall, but are on a budget. The deals on these amps are so good right now, that I'm sure it is effecting new model sales. Lastly, Marshall's legacy has an effect on sales. Some players intentionally seek out a certain amp to fulfill their playing style. Their favorite guitarist may be using a JTM and so they look to find one to buy. There's no disputing how large the used Marshall pool is. These amps get wheeled and dealed on a regular basis. Some people are willing to spend excessive amounts of cash to obtain the Marshall of their dreams...and it's not a new one. Marty __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

07-06-2009, 08:27 PM	#17 (permalink)
riffdrive Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: north Georgia mountains Posts: 204	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? No one can honestly say whether or not Marshall has peaked, since I don't think any of us are in possession of a crystal ball. Just an aside, if you ARE in possession of a crystal ball, please PM me with the winning numbers for the next Mega Millions drawing kthx. I think Marshall is going about things the right way now. They are trying to cater to vastly different market segments, and they're doing it well. That means that whether you have a $200 budget or a $4000 budget, Marshall has an amp for you. I think the Haze was an attempt to cash in on the newly popular lower-wattage amp market, although I think they missed the mark because the attractiveness of the lower-wattage amps is that they are PTP-wired and the focus is on quality and tone. Obviously if quality was their number one concern, they'd be building the Haze in-house instead of farming it out. I'm excited because I've heard in several places that Marshall may soon bless us with an honest to goodness point-to-point handwired low wattage boutique amp with genuine Marshall tone (which will hopefully have a design that will be friendly to modders and hot rodders). The Haze is likely a fine amp, but I'm going to save my pennies in hopes that someday I'll be able to buy a real 5-watt all-tube Marshall that's not loaded down with crappy digital reverb, an effects loop I'll never use, or other various tone-suckers. __________________ ----------------------------------------------------------- 2001 Marshall DSL 50 (JJ ECC83, Svetlana EL34) 2005 Marshall Mode Four Avatar 2x12 (1x Vintage 30, 1x Greenback) Peavey 4x12 (Sheffield 1290) Taylor Standard Solidbody Ibanez RG2EX2

07-07-2009, 07:06 AM	#19 (permalink)
ptate Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 107	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? Thought Fender had already been part of it with the tiny 5W Champion and their current range of tweeds etc? __________________ www.pnpmusic.co.uk Handmade pedals built for tone.

07-07-2009, 10:46 AM	#21 (permalink)
rockinr0ll Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,340	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? Yamaha Guitars rule! Way more bang for the buck then any other company IMO. I can't believe that more people don't buy them.

07-08-2009, 09:16 AM	#22 (permalink)
bloosman1 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 154	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? Has Rolls Royce 'peaked'? Has Mercedes Benze 'peaked'? Has Jaguar 'peaked' My point is, as long as they're made the best, they will be the best. __________________ Amps: JCM 2000 DSL 100 1960 A Cab. Fender Hot Rod Deville Fender Pro Jr. Pignose Axes: Fender 2009 American Standard Strat Fender 81 modified strat Fender 98 mim modified strat Fender 04 Highway 1 strat Gibson Swamp Ash Les Paul Studio Gibson Black Les Paul Studio Gibson SG Gothic Taylor Accoustic Washburn Accoustic Dobro 'M' Series Effects: Everything from a PODxt to analog...too darn many

07-08-2009, 10:00 AM	#23 (permalink)
jcmjmp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,341	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? Current production Marshalls are all about most bang for the buck with some sacrifices in tone and quality. Looking at it from that angle, Marshall has peaked 25 years ago, or somewhere around that era. I like my 1997 DSL even though it was made after the peak - Its a good amp for what it was designed to do. I don't like much of what came after the DSL though. To me, the current Marshall lineup leaves a lot to be desired. I'd much rather have a Metropoulos, Blackstar, Orange, Soldano, Bogner, Egnater etc... The Vintage Modern seems like a step in the right direction but with its fickle effects loop and digital effects, and tonally, its nothing special. I'll pass. I'd rather get a proper JTM 45. Last edited by jcmjmp; 07-08-2009 at 07:13 PM.

07-08-2009, 04:58 PM	#25 (permalink)
JohnH Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 640	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? I think Marshall are on a roll. In the last two years, we have seen several completley new ranges of amps, all better than before, including JVMs, VMs, MG4s and now Haze, all sitting well in their market sectors. Some of the Classic designs are still being made too and the brand image continues to be bolstered by the music both old and new and also the secondhand market for the old amps. __________________ DSL401 8412 cab Crate Powerblock 1 x 12 Vintage 30 cab '76 Shergold Masquerader '93 Les Paul Studio '83 Roadstar

07-09-2009, 09:37 AM	#28 (permalink)
gtrman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 219	Re: Have Marshall Amplifiers already peaked? I personally like the way they are combining old with new. Making reissues of popular mainstays like JCM800 and JCM900 (and including effect loops !!) At the same time coming out with an amp like the VM which for the price is just an awsome tube-amp. I see no signs of slowing down ... __________________ JCM800 2203X - 1923 85th Anniversary - JCM900 SL-X - VM 2266 - 425A - 6100LM - 6101LM - Silver Jubilee 2553 - Silver Jubilee 2554 - 1960A - 1960B - 1960Slash - 1922 - 1936V

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