American Viking

I don't know it's hard to say. I have a DSL100 that collects dust and two 800's that are abused regularly if that tells you anything.

I've been wanting to get the chance to sit down with a couple different 900's for a couple days and see if those are too my liking but I can get every tone I could ever want out of my 2203 and 2204, sometimes with the assistance of a stomp box. I haven't played the VM, or JVM at all. Really not had a desire to since those aren't the amps you see when going out to a big show. (Slash uses a VM, I know, I know..)
I like the Marshall RI's of the 1959SLP and 1987x.
I wouldn't say they're making terrible amps I just like the older stuff better. I don't really know why they would stop making some of the amps that are still classics but I guess they realize that old fogies can't buy amps when they're dead and young players just want gain monsters.

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-I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

oldGNRfan

I'm a younger player, but am not into all of the gain. More tone for me. I never liked the 900(diodes, I'm not a tube snob, just didn't feel it) and the JVM was too complicated. I like a simple amp and Marshall isn't really doing that. The other half, Gibson Les Paul, is going towards the future now as well. The last good guitar by them was the Studio, my favorite(simple, not bling-bling like the custom). I guess older is better. I'm just not into all the new, complicated, huge amt of gain shit. I know I am young, and probably one of the few youngins that like the old stuff, but IDK why. I always preferred the older music too. I like 2 bands after the years 2000: Velvet Revolver and My Chemical Romance. Unlike most, I gave MCR a chance, and they got some REALLY good guitar in it. I was shocked. Anyway, that's why I like the Studio-JCM 800 combo. Pair that with a Dunlop Classic Crybaby Wah Pedal and you have yourself an incredible blues/rock/metal rig! IMO, of course!

American Viking

lol, funny you should say that, my set-up for my punk rock and roll band is exactly that, Gibson Les Paul Studio, JCM 800 and a Crybaby!

__________________
-I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

oldGNRfan

REALLY!! Damn, what a small world! It just sounds so good. Don't know why, but it is pure ROCK AND ROLL!!!!

MGSchindel

Also, all the 1987 Silver Jubilee heads (the 50w, the 100w and the 50w short chassis), as well as its 1988-1989 successor, the Marshall "Custom" in Black tolex/gold face plate, and then later the Slash 2555 reissue signature model, all have a clipping diode circuit in the preamp, that you can either engage or disengage via a pull-switch on the preamp gain knob. ON that amp you can hear for yourself what the clipping diodes do to the tone the minute you turn them on...SUCK THE TONE DRY, CUT DOWN THE VOLUME, HACK THE BASS, MAKES IT THIN AND SCRATCHY, AND KILLS THE NATURAL TUBE WARMTH AND PUNCH, for just a little extra "weed wacker filler scratch." Say no to clipping diode distortion on a marshall preamp circuit!

And the 4100/4500 JCM900 Dual Reverb, BTW actually has like three op amp chips soldered on the pc board, like a Boss DS-1 distortion pedal in a marshall headbox....NOT just a simple series of clipping diodes in a row to make a hotter crunchier tube gain signal...Go look at the schematics in the back of the Doyle book and see for yourself. It's those little triangles with a circle thru them on the preamp circuit schematic. That's why its cleans are so pristine and its gain is so...meh! The effects loop on the JCM900 with those little recessed trim pots is solid state buffered rather than tube buffered also, so when you use its effects loop, you're running your whole signal thru the solid state signal stages...not a pure tube signal path at all.

I'm not saying good or bad, it's just fact. The 4100 is great for cleans especially! Then again, so is a totally solid state Roland JC120 2x12 combo!!!! Killer amp.

Also the JCM800 2205/2210 has not just clipping diodes but a whole IC chip on the board to add to its gain. You can see it on the schematic, or open the head and it's blatant. A big black rectangular solid state chip soldered on the board, kinda like the chip inside a boss SD-1 or a tubescreamer pedal.

Then again, most guys that run an all-tube 2203 or 2204 run a Boss SD-1, Ibanez TS-9, or some other solid state overdrive pedal into the preamp input, to create enough distortion to crunch, thrash and shred on it anyway, so....

jcmjmp

Regarding the Silver Jubilee, there are 3 different way to use/configure the amp.

When in Clean mode, no rhythm clip, you have an all tube signal path, no diodes or transistors in the signal path.

When in Clean mode with the rhythm clip engaged, clipping diodes that are specific to the clean channel are put in the signal path. These are regular Silicon diodes that clips at 0.65v

When in Lead mode, the lead channel clipping diodes are engaged. The diodes are a combination of LEDs clipping at approx 1.45v and 1 regular diode.

RobS

Do you know if the JVM410 has diode clipping or is it 'true' tube?
I'm considering getting one.

American Viking

I'm a tube guy through and through, but the bottom line is how it sounds. If it sounds great, then I wouldn't worry about the diode clipping. I think that all recent Marshall's except for their obvious SS amps are all tube.

__________________
-I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

marshallmellowed

No diode clipping in the JVM. Got a 410H myself.

big dooley

the JCM800 2210 has 5 preamp tubes, not 3...

AussiRock

I'm sitting here looking at the chassis of an original 50w 1968 plexi and I see 4 diodes in the rectifier!! Go figure ......what's the problem.... if they're in the rectifier or the gain stage ..... who cares ....what matters is what is sweet to YOUR ears not someone elses concept of "the perfect valve sound"!!!!

Be individual and true to your self!!

__________________

1958 Les Paul Custom
1970 Les Paul Deluxe
1973 Les Paul Custom
1975 Les Paul Custom
1977 Les Paul Custom
1976 Les Pau Standard Tobacco
1985 Les Paul Standard HS Flame
2007 Les Paul Standard HS Flame
1974 SG
1975 Fender Strat
1979 Fender Strat
1983 Fender Strat
1990 Fender Strat
1978 Washburn
2005 Cort Acoustic
1980 Ibanez Blazer
Marshall JCM 900 2101 1 x 12 Combo Hi Gain 100w
Marshall JCM 900 4100 100w Head
Marshall 1960ax Cabs x 2
Ashton 40w combo
No Room Left in the Shed

jcmjmp

That's not signal path. Those diodes are part of the power supply.

oldGNRfan

Yeah, ppl contradict themselves that way w/o really even knowing that. A JCM 900 is like a JCM 800 with a pedal, right? I don't use anything other than a wah pedal because everything else, od, distortion, eq(OBVIOUSLY!), will change tone. I don't know if I am a tube snob but pure tube is ORGASMIC

AussiRock

jcmjmp Thats right, I have 2101 that has diodes on the board in the gain stage, and yes I concede that you have to work on the controls to get a sweet sound, but it is there. However I do prefer the full preamp valve cascade system as it provides instant grin value at any volume.

__________________

1958 Les Paul Custom
1970 Les Paul Deluxe
1973 Les Paul Custom
1975 Les Paul Custom
1977 Les Paul Custom
1976 Les Pau Standard Tobacco
1985 Les Paul Standard HS Flame
2007 Les Paul Standard HS Flame
1974 SG
1975 Fender Strat
1979 Fender Strat
1983 Fender Strat
1990 Fender Strat
1978 Washburn
2005 Cort Acoustic
1980 Ibanez Blazer
Marshall JCM 900 2101 1 x 12 Combo Hi Gain 100w
Marshall JCM 900 4100 100w Head
Marshall 1960ax Cabs x 2
Ashton 40w combo
No Room Left in the Shed

AussiRock

MGSchindel,
Most of those amps only have 2 or 3 12ax7 preamp valves the other one is the phase splitter in the push pull power amp stage!!

speedtravis

Man, the 2205 has clipping diodes but that IC is part of the switching circuits

http://www.drtube.com/schematics/marshall/4210.gif

coldsteal2

Actualy was "just" the 900 series (and some latter 800) Tube Amps used
diode clipping.
The amps now use tube stacking for high gain
thats why the new amps have four preamp tubes
DSL through the latest Tube amps use stacking.

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http://www.youtube.com/user/kroftkarl

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...&content=music

MGSchindel

I know. I didn't post that, I quoted it from American Viking. But I don't think he intended to mislead or imply that all the tubes (and certainly not both triodes from each) were used for preamp gain stages. The 12Ax7 next to the power tubes is always the phase, bro. I even throw my 12Ax7s intended for the phase on my hickock to make sure the triodes are closely matched, even though the tolerances of the components on both sides of the phase circuit may not be exact. Why not, right?

MARSHALLDUDE

I'm confused,i have a jcm900 mkIII if i turn the gain up the diode is what makes the distortion?¿ the tubes dont do any distortion?, also i have read that when you put the 11-20 gain on 0 the diode is bypass, is this true?

jcmjmp

Well, not really - A JCM900 is not like a JCM800 2204/2203 + pedal . A pedal in front of a tube input gain stage is not the same thing as a pedal in front of an IC or transistor gain stage.

With a pedal, you can slam those input 12AX7s with a higher signal, pushing it into creamy overdrive. If you look at a Jubilee, a JMP-1 or the JCM 800 2205/2210, the first thing you hit on the input jack is a tube based input gain stage.

Some of the JCM900 amps have an IC as the first buffer/gain stage. Putting a pedal in front of an amp like that does not yield the same result as hitting a tube input gain stage. You'll notice that the IC input gain stages sound like crap when you push them.

Moreover, looking at the Jubilee or JMP-1 circuit, the clipping happens before the cathode follower stage. That will change the effect of the solid state clipping and it seems to be a sweet spot for putting diodes in a tube circuit.

mountain2012

Do the JCM800's currently being produced have diode clipping?

Ken

Ah, that answered some of my questions. I recently "discovered" the Ibenez Tube Screamer for my DSL 50, and I love how it adds a little to solos to bring them out without destroying the tone or fuzzing out the distrotion level like old pedals from the 70's and 80's used to. I was never a pedal guy at all but my new band "requires" I have a pedal board and I'm now a lot less of a "pure amp tone only" snob. I think tasteful use of effects expands one's playing while I used to think they covered it up.

That being said, I have yet to like anything through the effects loop. I have everything front loaded. Does anyone have any suggestions on which if any effects might work better through the loop? I have a chorus, tube screamer, phase up front, and an EQ I don't use at all because I don't need it with the tube screamer.

Ken

gtrman

Generally effects like Chorus and Delay works best through the loop. Overdrive/distortion goes in front. An Eq can be used either way. Just try it out and use whatever way sounds best for you.

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JCM800 2203X - 1923 85th Anniversary - JCM900 SL-X - VM 2266 - 425A - 6100LM - 6101LM - Silver Jubilee 2553 - Silver Jubilee 2554 - 1960A - 1960B - 1960Slash - 1922 - 1936V

MGSchindel

No they don't