DragonSarc

will the Haze 40 watt be better than the DSL 401 on over all sound and quality due to the EL34 tube? OD gain more or less or enough? what do you guys think?

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JVM410H w/ 1960 Vintage A & 1960 Lead B
Valvestate 2000 AVT 100 W/ JJ tesla Hi-Gain Preamp
Gibson LP studio faded mahagony w/ Burstbuckers Pro V
MIJ ESP Edwards Les Paul w/ Duncan JB and 59's
Fender American Strat w/ Noiseless Vintage pups
LTD EC-500
Jackson Stealth Pro MIJ

coldsteal2

I have no idea till they show up and you can
play them side by side

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crossroadsnyc

D) None of the above

357mag

I think the Haze will be the better amp. EL34's instead of EL84's of which there aren't as many options. The Haze video sounded pretty good. I was thinking of getting one myself but I may not due only to the fact that my Valvestate sounds so good already.

DragonSarc

isnt the el34 alot better than the el84s? it should sound bigger and shouldnt be bad for practice amp

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JVM410H w/ 1960 Vintage A & 1960 Lead B
Valvestate 2000 AVT 100 W/ JJ tesla Hi-Gain Preamp
Gibson LP studio faded mahagony w/ Burstbuckers Pro V
MIJ ESP Edwards Les Paul w/ Duncan JB and 59's
Fender American Strat w/ Noiseless Vintage pups
LTD EC-500
Jackson Stealth Pro MIJ

felim

If they're only getting 40 watts from a pair of EL34s, aren't they being underutilised? Biased very cold? What kind of effect would that have on the tone?

Vintager12

I think the haze will win, but my prefered pratice amp is an orange tiny terror.

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The Emperor of the Vintage Modern.

MKB

Bias MAY not have anything to do with it. Power output has more to do with plate voltage and output transformer size. You can have a very low plate voltage for low output power, and still bias it correctly. In fact, EL34's and other power tubes should sound their best at low plate voltages and high currents as they are operating closer to class A like that.

The Marshall Artist 30 hybrid amp in the JCM800 line (op amp preamp and tube output stage) used EL34's with low plate voltages and a small output transformer, got only 30 watts output but sounded great.

Another example is to compare a Fender Bassman head and a Bandmaster head. These amps are very similar except the Bandmaster has a smaller output transformer. You will pull fewer watts from the Bandmaster because of the smaller transformer (40 vs. 50 for the Bassman), and the tone is a lot different.

Finally, Marshall has been rating the power of their amps a bit strangely lately. Remember the "100 Marshall watts" comments, where the 100W heads were WAY louder than expected? The Marshall heads of old would measure 50 to 100 watts clean power, where distorted it would go way up from that. But take say a Vintage Modern, the 100W model puts out only 80W clean, and 100W at full distortion. The 50W model puts out 35W clean. So it's very possible that the Haze 40 is actually a 25 to 30W clean output amp. We probably won't know unless somebody at Marshall spills the beans or a tech gets one and measures it (that'll be the first thing I do to one when I get my hands on it).

big dooley

according to santiago, one of the designers of the JVM and the 2203KK, posting regularly on the JVM-forum:
the JVM delivers around 98/100 watts before clipping with EL34's
the 2203KK on the other hand, delivers around 90 watts before clipping with KT88's
these two models share the exact same transformers, btw

MartyStrat54

All I know is that 40 watts is 40 watts is 40 watts. If 40 watts is made by four EL84's, will it sound different than another amp making 40 watts with EL34's? It sure will. They both will have their own unique tonal qualities. Personally, I prefer the sound of overdriven EL84's over the EL34's.

Now, did my 1999 DSL401 sound different than my 2006 DSL401? Yes, it sure does, because it is biased much colder than my 99 model. I think that if the HAZE is running lower plate voltage, it will be more closer to a Class A amp. (Sort of like how VOX rates their amps as being almost Class A when in reality they are Class AB.) One thing is for sure, the tubes should last a little longer in the HAZE.

I can't comment on the new Marshall power ratings. Twenty-five years ago, if you had a British amp and it said, "100 watts output," you would automatically add about 20 to 25 watts to it. Same for their speakers. If the HAZE is only making say 30 watts clean and 40 watts at MAX, there is very little difference in what the ear will hear. (Example: A 100 watt amp is only 3 decibels louder than a 50 watt amp.)

BTW, if you have a little money and some patience, you can get exotic tubes for the 401 and they do make a difference. I have a matched quad of RCA Black Plates and a set of Telefunken Gray Plates (EL84's) for my DSL401. Along with USA made preamp tubes (12AX7's), my 401 would give the HAZE a run for its money!

MARTY

Darrenw5094

No real reviews from actual guitarists yet on them. But my guess, is that the Haze are budget amps. Possibly not made in the UK.....don't quote me on that one though.

Can't belive that they would be on the same level as the DSL range. But, still a step up from the MG, AVT and older valvestate amps.

zslane

They are made in India.

An all-valve under-50watt 1x12 combo for under $800 is a product category Marshall really ought to be in at all times. That used to describe the DSL-401. Not anymore. It is up to the Haze 40 to carry that torch now...

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JCM2000 DSL-100 head + 1960A 4x12 cab
30th Anniversary 6100 head
JCM2000 DSL-401 combo
Les Paul Standards ('96 Goldtop, '99 Ebony, '03 Honeyburst)
Les Paul Custom ('04 Alpine White w/ gold hardware)
Les Paul Supreme ('07 Trans Black w/ black hardware)

MartyStrat54

Amen to that. Peavey is selling way to many Chinese Peaveys. It's time that Marshall started selling a boat load of Indian Marshalls. You never know, they could sound killer and prompt the owner to eventually want to upgrade to a better Marshall amp.

Marty

coldsteal2

im looking for one as my easy chair amp
to replace my AVT50 which i love, but would
love a great 1 12 all tube amp that sounded
like a marshall.
I love my 401 but has a Voxish sound
the EL34's have me interested

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MartyStrat54

Not only does the EL34's have my interest, but also how they are being used in the electronic circuitry of the HAZE. Marshall has never run a pair of EL34's like the way they are doing in a HAZE. I'm really curious as to how it will sound with lower voltage on the plate and power tranny. It will by all means be a heavy sounding AB amp that will be closer to a Class A. That in itself will make for a difference in tonal quality.

Marty

Gauge

my haze 40 sounds a little muddy on high gain.so i put gain on 1,volume on 9 and drive it with a metalzone hi gain low out or a digitech death metal(output thru mixer).it then sounds live the marshalls we all know and enjoy.onboard efx are awesome.reverb adds a little gain.

MartyStrat54

Thanks for responding to this old thread. Good to know that you were able to get the amp to deliver.

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MARTY

2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine
1989 Fender Strat Plus USA
2008 Fender Tele USA
2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's

TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers.
TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends."
DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker.

Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

Fretburner

I just purchased a DSL401 as a backup for my Haze 40. The Haze has more volume, punch and better effects loop for sure but I will say the DSL's distortion is much tighter than the Haze. I don't mind the Haze crunch sound as I set it mid way and use a MXR Wylde overdrive to push it and it sounds great!

Now I have to look around the forum for effects loop mods for the DSL 401

spikei

i was looking for some thing as versatile as the avt 100 but with valves, the haze is just that. it sounds better in a hall than it does in the house, haven't giged it yet but will do in a couple of weeks.