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Unread 11-01-2012, 08:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
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"NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

The head is a '77 2203. Have the standard JJ's in there now. Early metal era tones are had easily with a ts-9 or od-3 a bit bright though (V30's)....but am I missing something with such a bland current production 12ax7??
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Unread 11-01-2012, 08:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

I've recently found RCA 12ax7a preamp tubes to be delicious. I bought 7 more on the 'bay. Don't know much about the rest of them, but yes there IS something there.
I'm sure a local pro will pipe up on here shortly. Good luck!

Edit: and I liked CP JJ tubes in my Marshall's first
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Unread 11-01-2012, 08:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

people who'll say you won't, will get flamed
i had the honour of messing around with a rarely used telefunken and 5751's from general electric to lower the gain a bit and imo it aint worth the outrageous amounts of cash you have to pay these day for some of those legendary brands... JJ's are great, reliable and they're cheap... if i want fresh tone i'll strap some new strings on my guitar
each to their own
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Unread 11-01-2012, 09:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

Definitely the prices at the dealers are crazy, but you can find some deals on EBay. That being said these were my first NOS tube buys and I'll probably get hosed..
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Unread 11-01-2012, 09:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

I have paid the money for new in the box Mullards and RFTs and even GEs. The construction detail and microphonics are better then any new production tube I have bought (specifically speaking of the three I listed). However, looking at the bottom line any tone gain that is noticed does not justify the $200 extra cost per tube.

Personally I am very satisfied with the new production TAD 7025-S tubes and TungSols, either will give your amp a very good sound. So no, not worth it IMO.
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Unread 11-01-2012, 09:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

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Originally Posted by big dooley View Post
people who'll say you won't, will get flamed
i had the honour of messing around with a rarely used telefunken and 5751's from general electric to lower the gain a bit and imo it aint worth the outrageous amounts of cash you have to pay these day for some of those legendary brands... JJ's are great, reliable and they're cheap... if i want fresh tone i'll strap some new strings on my guitar
each to their own
I agree with BD here, except for the JJ thing, those sound like my x-wife.
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Unread 11-01-2012, 09:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

I can speak from experience and say that you will never know unless you try some your self. It's very subjective and It depends greatly on your ear, the tube it's self, the amp your are using and what you want.

I personally hear a difference between NOS and new tubes (I do agree 100% with Dooly that JJ' s are great CP tubes and I use them often). I have never personally paid an exorbitant amount of money for NOS (seldom more than $30 each on the high side) and I literally have hundreds in the collection at this point. The tricky part is buying from a reputable source. Aside from the tone differences, almost all of my NOS tubes seem to hold up far better than any of the CP tubes I own or install for people. I regularly test the tubes I have in my amps to see if they are fading over time. Most of the NOS tubes I am using stay exactly where they are. Many of the CP tubes I have tested degrade noticeably over a shorter time.
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Unread 11-01-2012, 10:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

NUKE-You got screwed if you paid "$200 each" for Mullards, RFT's and GE's.

There are only a few NOS tubes (12AX7 variety) that command over $200 per tube. (Mazda Silver Plate, Telefunken ECC803 and early Valvo slant getter to name a few.)

I've said this many times about NOS or vintage tubes.

1. Better vacuum pulled on tube. Promotes longer life.
2. Better (toxic) chemicals used to coat the anode, cathode and plates.
3. Better, more precise parts and the assembly of these parts.
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Unread 11-01-2012, 10:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

I tend to agree with the lower pricing information. Some nice old stock preamp tubes can be found for under $30. And some good old stock power tubes can be had for a little more than current production prices. But try both current production and old stock if possible. Just watch the $$$ when buying. It is always good to have a collection and backups anyways.

V-Killer, check out the preamp and power tube threads under "Marshall Amps" for some reading.
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Unread 11-01-2012, 11:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

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NUKE-You got screwed if you paid "$200 each" for Mullards, RFT's and GE's.

There are only a few NOS tubes (12AX7 variety) that command over $200 per tube. (Mazda Silver Plate, Telefunken ECC803 and early Valvo slant getter to name a few.)

I've said this many times about NOS or vintage tubes.

1. Better vacuum pulled on tube. Promotes longer life.
2. Better (toxic) chemicals used to coat the anode, cathode and plates.
3. Better, more precise parts and the assembly of these parts.
Yea I know, they were Mullards10M Master Series. But I did because I knew for certain that they were new and never used. I only bought 2.

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Unread 11-01-2012, 11:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

Wow, 10M's are some nice tubes.
I would have trouble with the prices for a guitar amplifier though. I know, you got to try them at least once.
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Unread 11-01-2012, 11:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

I hear a difference between NOS and CP tubes. I believe in NOS. I started by garnering a quad of Blackburn plant Mullard EL84's for my power tubes. Upon installation and rebias there was a marked difference, especially in saturation IMHO. Soon thereafter I added a quad of NOS tubes from Marty to the amp, of a High-Gain package variety......also an improvement, especially in lower-volume applications.

My thoughts are this, for your amp: Since you're getting more from Power tube overdrive, have you thought about getting NOS Power valves? I agree with the above posters who say that you shouldn't shoot the works either way, but maybe just look into some quality CP for your preamp.

Again, not an expert, just a user.
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Unread 11-02-2012, 12:00 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

they're not worth the exorbitant prices no. if you can find them in or around the new/cp price range then yes they're worth it as they do sound better and feel better by a SMALL margin. Marty's got good prices.
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Unread 11-02-2012, 12:02 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

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they're not worth the exorbitant prices no. if you can find them in or around the new/cp price range then yes they're worth it as they do sound better and feel better by a SMALL margin. Marty's got good prices.
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Unread 11-02-2012, 12:11 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

Buying NOS tubes off of eBay is a huge crap shoot, I'd never take the risk. If you have to cure your GAS for them, go to a reputable dealer.

That being said you can get some great sounding tubes for a lot less. New Tung-Sol, or Mullard re-issues are nice 12ax7's. Winged "C" are great power tubes.

I personally wouldn't spend a dime on J.J's. Very harsh sounding all around. This is just my .02$ but you can save some money, and have great tone.
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Unread 11-02-2012, 12:44 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

from my experience yes there is a difference..the question is it worth the extra cash...well no if you have to shellout more than twice a current production tube price.
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Unread 11-02-2012, 12:51 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

Werd!! NOS mullard in V1.
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Unread 11-02-2012, 01:44 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

The fact they the old ones tend to last twice as long as CP tubes makes forking over some extra cash worth it. And yeah they sound good.

As an example I tried a bunch in my phase inverter, CP and vintage tubes, the winner was an old Raytheon 12BZ7, but the clear second place which sounded almost the same was a JJ. the rest NOS and CP where far far away in terms of how good it sounded.

So the difference might not be so big between old and new, but it pays to have a lot of different ones to roll, even if they are CP.
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Unread 11-02-2012, 02:36 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

I paid $40 for a pair of 1961 NOS 12ax7's and they work great. I like them better than the CP tubes I have used. However, I wouldn't pay say.... twice what I paid (for example) for these same tubes.
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Unread 11-02-2012, 03:23 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

Yeh I don't think they are worth a lot more money. I don't notice a big difference in tone so if you can get em a little bit more, then get em. If not, don't waste your money
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Unread 11-02-2012, 07:42 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

I've made many posts relating to this very subject. I have been buying GE 12AX7s for only around $18.00 per tube, that is right $18.00...from two reputable ebay dealers. $4.00 more per tube then the Tungsols...that's right, only $4.00...

The difference though in tone is TWENTY times that! The GEs KILL ALL of the CP tubes...and I've pretty much tried them all. The Sovteks were the worst, second to JJ..and then up through the Tungsols, EHs and Chinese variants...which aren't bad..but no where near is good.

They make your Marshall sound more like a Marshall. They're far warmer, articulate, greater gain, greater dynamic response, greater clarity...awesome clean tones and bust ass overdriven tones...Your amp will come alive with those babies!

If you can't hear the difference you need to find a new hobby..
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Unread 11-02-2012, 09:02 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

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I've made many posts relating to this very subject. I have been buying GE 12AX7s for only around $18.00 per tube, that is right $18.00...from two reputable ebay dealers. $4.00 more per tube then the Tungsols...that's right, only $4.00...

The difference though in tone is TWENTY times that! The GEs KILL ALL of the CP tubes...and I've pretty much tried them all. The Sovteks were the worst, second to JJ..and then up through the Tungsols, EHs and Chinese variants...which aren't bad..but no where near is good.

They make your Marshall sound more like a Marshall. They're far warmer, articulate, greater gain, greater dynamic response, greater clarity...awesome clean tones and bust ass overdriven tones...Your amp will come alive with those babies!

If you can't hear the difference you need to find a new hobby..
Dude, if you're not a salesman, you SHOULD be! Lol!...can you give me the link to the e-bay tube dealer you speak of please?
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Unread 11-02-2012, 09:33 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

OS all the way...
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Unread 11-02-2012, 09:48 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

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I've made many posts relating to this very subject. I have been buying GE 12AX7s for only around $18.00 per tube, that is right $18.00...from two reputable ebay dealers. $4.00 more per tube then the Tungsols...that's right, only $4.00...

The difference though in tone is TWENTY times that!
lemme take that last statement with a grain of salt...

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Unread 11-02-2012, 10:12 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

They're worth trying out but just be careful - its easy to get carried away and spend a lot of money. One of my peeves is that "NOS" is used very loosely and many people seem to ignore the fact that the N stands for "new" (as in unused), which most tubes aren't.

I've tried a number of old tubes and, of those, I only really liked a small number, much in the same way I only like a small number of CP tubes. So, whether or not you'll like an old tube is just as much a crapshoot as whether or not you'll like a CP tube. All things being equal, a good old tube should last much loner than a CP tube. Whether or not its worth the money is up to you.
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Unread 11-02-2012, 11:21 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

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lemme take that last statement with a grain of salt...

http://weblogs.nos.nl/radio1journaal...e-zoutberg.jpg
lol!! :d
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Unread 11-02-2012, 11:24 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

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They're worth trying out but just be careful - its easy to get carried away and spend a lot of money. One of my peeves is that "NOS" is used very loosely and many people seem to ignore the fact that the N stands for "new" (as in unused), which most tubes aren't.

I've tried a number of old tubes and, of those, I only really liked a small number, much in the same way I only like a small number of CP tubes. So, whether or not you'll like an old tube is just as much a crapshoot as whether or not you'll like a CP tube. All things being equal, a good old tube should last much loner than a CP tube. Whether or not its worth the money is up to you.
Well, for my tastes that is, I thought the GEs completely outperformed *most* CP tubes, all of the popular ones anyway by quite a large margin... I did try some Raytheons that I didn't like as much...although still felt they sounded better then the JJs..and the EHs...
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Unread 11-02-2012, 12:12 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

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Well, for my tastes that is, I thought the GEs completely outperformed *most* CP tubes, all of the popular ones anyway by quite a large margin... I did try some Raytheons that I didn't like as much...although still felt they sounded better then the JJs..and the EHs...
Did you try the Raytheons in V2? I believe that is where they shine.
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Unread 11-02-2012, 12:16 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

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Did you try the Raytheons in V2? I believe that is where they shine.
Yeah, thought the GEs sounded better. Gonna try some Sylvanias next from 1961...
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Unread 11-02-2012, 12:55 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: "NOS" preamp tubes...worth it...or all hype?

I have a TSL100 and JJ's nuetered my tone controls............Marty sent me 2 Tubes for helping him with pickups and I totally hear the difference....get ahold of Marty Strat if you haven't
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