What preamp tubes in DSL?

ToneZone100 · 02-16-2009, 03:03 AM

From reading posts in other threads it appears a lot of you have changed the preamp tubes and have various combinations to get the sound you like.
Can you tell me what you have chosen and how you ended up with your particular tubes?
I'm going to experiment with mine as they are due a change and would welcome suggestions.

steelhorse · 02-16-2009, 04:59 AM

Makes it easier for us if you tell us what type(s) of music you play, the cab(s) you play through, what's currently in your amp tube-wise, and what kind of guitar(s) you use.

ToneZone100 · 02-16-2009, 07:20 AM

Head is currently stock and running JJ power tubes and Marshall preamp tubes which was as I bought it. I play 80's to current day "classic" rock thru a 1960 4x12 cab with standard 75's.
I have a few guitars including 2 1980,s Charvel strats, an Ibanez Iceman and an Epiphone Firebird. They all have various Dimarzio pups other than the Firebird which I haven't touched.

jcmjmp · 02-16-2009, 08:02 AM

Tubes can make slight difference in feel and tone and some are better than others. I tend to stick to Tung Sol 12AX7s or the Chinese tubes.
I've had JJs are thought that they were nothing special. I also tried some Ei recently and didn't like them.

Of the Chinese tubes I tried, I really liked the Mesa boogie tubes, especially the 12AX7 SPA

zeusecho · 02-17-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmjmp

Tubes can make slight difference in feel and tone and some are better than others. I tend to stick to Tung Sol 12AX7s or the Chinese tubes.
I've had JJs are thought that they were nothing special. I also tried some Ei recently and didn't like them.

Of the Chinese tubes I tried, I really liked the Mesa boogie tubes, especially the 12AX7 SPA

^^^ This +1

joeellistsl · 02-17-2009, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmjmp

Tubes can make slight difference in feel and tone and some are better than others. I tend to stick to Tung Sol 12AX7s or the Chinese tubes.
I've had JJs are thought that they were nothing special. I also tried some Ei recently and didn't like them.

Of the Chinese tubes I tried, I really liked the Mesa boogie tubes, especially the 12AX7 SPA

The Tung-Sol preamp tubes are my choice as well. I have also tried the JJ 12AX7's and they are extremely good also, they just have a little different vibe.

What you choose IMO depends on what characteristics you want. I like the Tung-Sol's because what I hear is a little more clear articulation. I don't think if you compare apples to apples the Tung Sol's offer quite as much saturation as the JJ's for example. Fortunatly for us all, there are some very good new tubes being made today that are affordable.

I read where some guys swear by the old stock tubes. They may be right, but I just can't spend hundreds of dollars for tubes. I doubt I could tell that much difference anyway.

lemansfanatic · 02-17-2009, 09:09 PM

Yes exactly like Joeellistsl said, I had all Tung Sol 12AX7's in my DSL50 and for a clean bluesey sound they were just fabulous, so smooth and articulate. They broke up so soft and mellow-not much gain though. Time for a retube and I ordered a complete JJ retube kit (high gain option JJ 12AX7's, installed and biased and what happened what the thing transformed from Creamy into Jagged! Heavy as hell! This is one badass mofo now, which is good when I want heavy, but I'm missing the smooth organic breakup so tomorrow I might experiment by re-installing my tung-sols in V1 and V2 and see what happens. I want the best of both worlds, a soft and friendly kitten on the green channel, and the red channel to be a fire-breathing gain monster! We'll see I guess.
I will say one good thing for the tone of the JJ's, say what you will about the harshness but you get a lot of good overtones coming through that I didn't have with the Tung-Sols, but each Marshall is different so have fun experimenting like I am!

steelhorse · 02-18-2009, 02:30 AM

If you like soft smooth and mellow sure Tung Sol may be the way to go, but if you like to lay down the hammer, JJ's from Euro Tubes can help beat that ass.

Tubes are so subjective though. I've tried them all and always wind up going back to JJ's from Euro. Not sure if the QC is the same with other JJ resellers but have never had an issue with anything I've ever purchased from them.

In my Dual Recto though I have Groove Tubes (#4) for the output valves (the rectifier tubes are stock) and GT pre amp tubes that sound wicked good so I'll probably continue with them in the future unless the Mesa Red's are a LOT cheaper which I'm guessing they're probably not.

Like lemans said, experiment and have fun!

jcmjmp · 02-18-2009, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemansfanatic

Yes exactly like Joeellistsl said, I had all Tung Sol 12AX7's in my DSL50 and for a clean bluesey sound they were just fabulous, so smooth and articulate. They broke up so soft and mellow-not much gain though.

I've had no issues in terms of gain with the tung sols and haven't noticed a big difference between the JJ and TS in terms of gain. The TS is more articulate for sure and it retains its clarity even with high gain.

I play anything from Hendrixy stuff, to Zep, to Deep Purple, Iron Maiden, old Metallica, Malmsteen, Halen, Sabbath, Ozzy. Never any issues with gain.

If you want a bit more edge in your distortion, add a bit of treble. That's where the sizzle is.

steelhorse · 02-18-2009, 12:25 PM

I have to go with lemans. The gain structure isn't right for me. Maybe for Malmsteen in the right amps and Zep to a degree but in a DSL for old school metal? Gosh I never considered any Ozzy or Metallica or EVH's sound to be very articulate really. It's open and dynamic but they're not using DSL's. They're using old school modded Marshall's and Boogies, and I don't think there's a Tung sol being used amongst them, it's just not that kind of hard core tube.

jcmjmp · 02-18-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

Gosh I never considered any Ozzy or Metallica or EVH's sound to be very articulate really. It's open and dynamic but they're not using DSL's. They're using old school modded Marshall's and Boogies,

Maybe you should clean your ears or have 'em checked! LOL!

psphill27 · 02-18-2009, 06:16 PM

I have GTs in my DSL and really like the sound. I get killer gain on the OD2 channel, more of a classic bluesy gain on the yellow and a nice clean sound. Now...in my JCM 900 Mk III I just bought, it has EH preamp tubes and JJs in the power section. Sounds killer and lots of gain. IMO...it has one of the best distorted sounds of any amp I've had. I actually reall like it. I think it's pretty subjective and more a personal thing as you can see. I think any of the options above will be good, but I've heard great things about the JJs...especially when dealing with Eurotubes...

steelhorse · 02-18-2009, 06:25 PM

I'm pleasantly surprised by the GT's in my DR too phil.

As far as Ozzy goes, RR was the only articulate player and we all know he wasn't using a DSL and no way was he using Tung Sol's and ZW uses 5881's in his amps and has everything turned up (his words) full blast (not much reason to be articulate there or use Tung Sol's) and EVH's playing has been likened to falling down stairs and landing on your feet, again old school amps, variac'd and now his EVH3 (no Tung sol's).

Hmm.. see a trend here jcm?

I'm thinking someone else's ears need to be cleaned! LOL

fwiw the amps you seem to covet are great amps, but imo there's no comparing that amp to a DSL. None. The JMP's are the shiznit!

jcmjmp · 02-18-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

I'm pleasantly surprised by the GT's in my DR too phil.

As far as Ozzy goes, RR was the only articulate player and we all know he wasn't using a DSL and no way was he using Tung Sol's and ZW uses 5881's in his amps and has everything turned up (his words) full blast (not much reason to be articulate there or use Tung Sol's) and EVH's playing has been likened to falling down stairs and landing on your feet, again old school amps, variac'd and now his EVH3 (no Tung sol's).

Hmm.. see a trend here jcm?

I'm thinking someone else's ears need to be cleaned! LOL

You're just mixing everything up to try and justify your opinion. You're twisting around what I wrote. Then, you go on about the Tung Sol's gain structure, which has nothing to do with the tube. Gain structure is dictated by amplifier design, not tube brand.

I simply pointed out that I never had a problem in getting enough gain for hard rock and early 80's metal; with a TungSol tube. That's it.

I don't give a f**k who uses tube brand xyz. All that matters is that I get good tone.

In terms of gain, if that is one of the original poster's worries, getting a higher output pickup will make a much bigger difference than trying different brands of 12AX7 tubes.

A DSL for 80's metal? Sure, why not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQZKEFu6K6M
Not the best recording. Its from 2004, Chinese tubes with a JJ in V1 in a DSL, Celestion Century/G12T-75 4x12 Marshall cab, 1987 Ibanez Jem with a Tone Zone in the Bridge position, SM57 off center micing. Sounds pretty good to me for the sound I was going for (Randy) but I personally prefer the Tung Sols. The DSL is on the green channel with the volume @ 4.5, gain @ 6.5 and a Boss SD-1 for the heavier parts.

steelhorse · 02-18-2009, 07:33 PM

I'm not twisting anything around bro. You posted your opinions about this stuff and I did the same, can't be civil then ignore my posts, simple.

fwiw he wasn't asking about pickups and you didn't suggest that we're discussing tubes and we're talking about the DSL.

Re-read my stuff if you want -objectively- without getting pissed off and you'll see that you raised some stuff about Tung Sol's I clearly don't agree with, especially in a DSL. I have a few and have had others so I think I know what I'm talking about.

I also play all the music you mention and never have I gotten close with Tung Sol pre's in a DSL.

IMO.

sheesh, lighten up francis.

jcmjmp · 02-18-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

I'm not twisting anything around bro.

... SNIP...

sheesh, lighten up francis.

Done!

steelhorse · 02-18-2009, 07:47 PM

great, what a relief.....

psphill27 · 02-18-2009, 08:04 PM

It's all good guys. That's what we do here. Folks have opinions...people ask them...and we share them. We all seem to like things a little different...our own way...that's what makes it cool.

I'm 40...been playing for years and still learn a ton from listening to guys talk. I've even discovered some new stuff I never thought about looking into by following some suggestions. Guess that one of the things I dig about the forum...lots of opinions and they're all good.

steelhorse · 02-18-2009, 09:27 PM

That's right bro, that's all it was; an opinion and you know what they say about them right?

RiverRatt · 02-19-2009, 12:30 AM

V1 and V2 - NOS RCA grey plates - I lucked into these. Turns out they are the best I have tried for the gain stages. I will probably look for more when these die. Very smooth both on the red and green channel.

V3 - Marshall-branded ECC83 (white lettering, if that matters). I can't tell much of a difference no matter what I have in this spot.

V4 - TungSol 12AX7 reissue. I don't like them in the gain stage, but they seem to make a fine PI.

big dooley · 02-19-2009, 04:52 AM

i didn't like the tungsol in the gain stage too, but it earned its place in the tone stack of my DSL and now it cares for the reverb in my JVM
i like to put different brands in the preamp, just for experimenting fun.. this way, the strenght of one brand can make up for the weaknesses of another and vice versa
JJ's are a bit darker sounding, while the tungsol's are gritty'er, in my experience...
i'm using NOS 5751's too to tame the gain a little bit
all i can advise is to do some experimenting with this... it's just plain fun to do actually

MonstersOfTheMidway · 02-19-2009, 03:33 PM

I don't post much due to the fact that I am learning so much by reading what others have to say. Having said that, I'd do have some experience with tube types. My JVM410H uses Shuguang preamp tubes (12AX7 aka ECC83) and they have worked great. I've heard from other players that these tubes are great for high gain amps like mesa boogie and JVM amps. I also demoed another JVM with Electro Harmonix preamp tubes and they sounded amazing as well. I would consider the DSL amps to be capable of high gain and would therefore suggest some Shuguang preamp tubes. Hope this helps.

steelhorse · 02-19-2009, 04:35 PM

Glad the shuguangs work for you in your JVM.

I liked the tone but not the balance and feedback with them in the VM. I replaced V1 with an EHX and high gain JJ's in the rest, balanced in V4 and it smoothed and balanced everything out beautifully without losing the edge when I need it.

zeusecho · 02-19-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

ZW uses 5881's in his amps

ummmmm...Zakk uses 6550s, not 5881s.

steelhorse · 02-19-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeusecho

Zakk uses 6550s, not 5881s.

My bad, sorry. I had 5881's on the brain that day.

lemansfanatic · 02-19-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmjmp

you go on about the Tung Sol's gain structure, which has nothing to do with the tube. Gain structure is dictated by amplifier design, not tube brand.

I understood what he meant here, not the gain structure but the character of their breakup during the different gain stages; early, late, scratchy or smooth, etc. I've had good experiences with Eurotubes for their service, but they said the JJ's are the smoothest preamp tubes you can buy, and I'm just not seeing that in mine. They're dark and heavy, and right now I'm getting this sweet gritty crunch, but with a shhhkkkshhhh mixed in with it whenever I turn the green crunch channels gain up past 3. It just won't smooth out, I guess if I had to do it all over again, I'd get the lower gain pre-amp tubes and just use a boost pedal for more oomph. Oh well, I can still live happy with this, my DSL50 is just a different animal now than what I fell in love with.

02-16-2009, 03:03 AM	#1 (permalink)
ToneZone100 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 94	What preamp tubes in DSL? From reading posts in other threads it appears a lot of you have changed the preamp tubes and have various combinations to get the sound you like. Can you tell me what you have chosen and how you ended up with your particular tubes? I'm going to experiment with mine as they are due a change and would welcome suggestions.

02-16-2009, 04:59 AM	#2 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,951	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? Makes it easier for us if you tell us what type(s) of music you play, the cab(s) you play through, what's currently in your amp tube-wise, and what kind of guitar(s) you use. __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

02-16-2009, 07:20 AM	#3 (permalink)
ToneZone100 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 94	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? Head is currently stock and running JJ power tubes and Marshall preamp tubes which was as I bought it. I play 80's to current day "classic" rock thru a 1960 4x12 cab with standard 75's. I have a few guitars including 2 1980,s Charvel strats, an Ibanez Iceman and an Epiphone Firebird. They all have various Dimarzio pups other than the Firebird which I haven't touched.

02-16-2009, 08:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
jcmjmp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,717	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? Tubes can make slight difference in feel and tone and some are better than others. I tend to stick to Tung Sol 12AX7s or the Chinese tubes. I've had JJs are thought that they were nothing special. I also tried some Ei recently and didn't like them. Of the Chinese tubes I tried, I really liked the Mesa boogie tubes, especially the 12AX7 SPA

02-17-2009, 09:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
lemansfanatic Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 63	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? Yes exactly like Joeellistsl said, I had all Tung Sol 12AX7's in my DSL50 and for a clean bluesey sound they were just fabulous, so smooth and articulate. They broke up so soft and mellow-not much gain though. Time for a retube and I ordered a complete JJ retube kit (high gain option JJ 12AX7's, installed and biased and what happened what the thing transformed from Creamy into Jagged! Heavy as hell! This is one badass mofo now, which is good when I want heavy, but I'm missing the smooth organic breakup so tomorrow I might experiment by re-installing my tung-sols in V1 and V2 and see what happens. I want the best of both worlds, a soft and friendly kitten on the green channel, and the red channel to be a fire-breathing gain monster! We'll see I guess. I will say one good thing for the tone of the JJ's, say what you will about the harshness but you get a lot of good overtones coming through that I didn't have with the Tung-Sols, but each Marshall is different so have fun experimenting like I am! __________________ JCM DSL50 Splawn 4x12 Cab w/ V30's and Greenbacks in X pattern Gibson SG Standard

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02-18-2009, 02:30 AM	#8 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,951	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? If you like soft smooth and mellow sure Tung Sol may be the way to go, but if you like to lay down the hammer, JJ's from Euro Tubes can help beat that ass. Tubes are so subjective though. I've tried them all and always wind up going back to JJ's from Euro. Not sure if the QC is the same with other JJ resellers but have never had an issue with anything I've ever purchased from them. In my Dual Recto though I have Groove Tubes (#4) for the output valves (the rectifier tubes are stock) and GT pre amp tubes that sound wicked good so I'll probably continue with them in the future unless the Mesa Red's are a LOT cheaper which I'm guessing they're probably not. Like lemans said, experiment and have fun! __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

02-18-2009, 12:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,951	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? I have to go with lemans. The gain structure isn't right for me. Maybe for Malmsteen in the right amps and Zep to a degree but in a DSL for old school metal? Gosh I never considered any Ozzy or Metallica or EVH's sound to be very articulate really. It's open and dynamic but they're not using DSL's. They're using old school modded Marshall's and Boogies, and I don't think there's a Tung sol being used amongst them, it's just not that kind of hard core tube. __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

02-18-2009, 06:16 PM	#12 (permalink)
psphill27 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 334	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? I have GTs in my DSL and really like the sound. I get killer gain on the OD2 channel, more of a classic bluesy gain on the yellow and a nice clean sound. Now...in my JCM 900 Mk III I just bought, it has EH preamp tubes and JJs in the power section. Sounds killer and lots of gain. IMO...it has one of the best distorted sounds of any amp I've had. I actually reall like it. I think it's pretty subjective and more a personal thing as you can see. I think any of the options above will be good, but I've heard great things about the JJs...especially when dealing with Eurotubes...

02-18-2009, 06:25 PM	#13 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,951	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? I'm pleasantly surprised by the GT's in my DR too phil. As far as Ozzy goes, RR was the only articulate player and we all know he wasn't using a DSL and no way was he using Tung Sol's and ZW uses 5881's in his amps and has everything turned up (his words) full blast (not much reason to be articulate there or use Tung Sol's) and EVH's playing has been likened to falling down stairs and landing on your feet, again old school amps, variac'd and now his EVH3 (no Tung sol's). Hmm.. see a trend here jcm? I'm thinking someone else's ears need to be cleaned! LOL fwiw the amps you seem to covet are great amps, but imo there's no comparing that amp to a DSL. None. The JMP's are the shiznit! __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

02-18-2009, 07:33 PM	#15 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,951	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? I'm not twisting anything around bro. You posted your opinions about this stuff and I did the same, can't be civil then ignore my posts, simple. fwiw he wasn't asking about pickups and you didn't suggest that we're discussing tubes and we're talking about the DSL. Re-read my stuff if you want -objectively- without getting pissed off and you'll see that you raised some stuff about Tung Sol's I clearly don't agree with, especially in a DSL. I have a few and have had others so I think I know what I'm talking about. I also play all the music you mention and never have I gotten close with Tung Sol pre's in a DSL. IMO. sheesh, lighten up francis. __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

02-18-2009, 07:47 PM	#17 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,951	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? great, what a relief..... __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

02-18-2009, 08:04 PM	#18 (permalink)
psphill27 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 334	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? It's all good guys. That's what we do here. Folks have opinions...people ask them...and we share them. We all seem to like things a little different...our own way...that's what makes it cool. I'm 40...been playing for years and still learn a ton from listening to guys talk. I've even discovered some new stuff I never thought about looking into by following some suggestions. Guess that one of the things I dig about the forum...lots of opinions and they're all good.

02-18-2009, 09:27 PM	#19 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,951	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? That's right bro, that's all it was; an opinion and you know what they say about them right? __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

02-19-2009, 12:30 AM	#20 (permalink)
RiverRatt Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Between Memphis and Nashville Posts: 918	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? V1 and V2 - NOS RCA grey plates - I lucked into these. Turns out they are the best I have tried for the gain stages. I will probably look for more when these die. Very smooth both on the red and green channel. V3 - Marshall-branded ECC83 (white lettering, if that matters). I can't tell much of a difference no matter what I have in this spot. V4 - TungSol 12AX7 reissue. I don't like them in the gain stage, but they seem to make a fine PI.

02-19-2009, 04:52 AM	#21 (permalink)
big dooley Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: zealand, netherlands Posts: 651	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? i didn't like the tungsol in the gain stage too, but it earned its place in the tone stack of my DSL and now it cares for the reverb in my JVM i like to put different brands in the preamp, just for experimenting fun.. this way, the strenght of one brand can make up for the weaknesses of another and vice versa JJ's are a bit darker sounding, while the tungsol's are gritty'er, in my experience... i'm using NOS 5751's too to tame the gain a little bit all i can advise is to do some experimenting with this... it's just plain fun to do actually

02-19-2009, 03:33 PM	#22 (permalink)
MonstersOfTheMidway Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: a chair Posts: 449	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? I don't post much due to the fact that I am learning so much by reading what others have to say. Having said that, I'd do have some experience with tube types. My JVM410H uses Shuguang preamp tubes (12AX7 aka ECC83) and they have worked great. I've heard from other players that these tubes are great for high gain amps like mesa boogie and JVM amps. I also demoed another JVM with Electro Harmonix preamp tubes and they sounded amazing as well. I would consider the DSL amps to be capable of high gain and would therefore suggest some Shuguang preamp tubes. Hope this helps.

02-19-2009, 04:35 PM	#23 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,951	Re: What preamp tubes in DSL? Glad the shuguangs work for you in your JVM. I liked the tone but not the balance and feedback with them in the VM. I replaced V1 with an EHX and high gain JJ's in the rest, balanced in V4 and it smoothed and balanced everything out beautifully without losing the edge when I need it. __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

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