Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? - Page 75

MartyStrat54 · 11-16-2009, 02:37 PM

Wasn't it you that I was talking to about these tubes? They are made on Philips/Mullard equipment and they have the slant O getter with pinched top. They are supposed to be incredible tubes. I know they tested very well on a TV-7 tester.

Yeah, I know we talked about the 6CA7's. They are supposed to be knock out tubes as well.

MartyStrat54 · 11-16-2009, 02:59 PM

Thanks for the kind words regarding "CONDOR." We actually did pretty good in the Phoenix market. We also played the main stage three years in a row at the AZ State Fair. It didn't pay anything, but man, talk about publicity!

I trained a friend and his buddy on how to set up our various PA systems. Our largest system was custom built by me. Everything looked store built. This was a system with two, 18-inch subs going from 35Hz to 100Hz and then to two, horn loaded cabs with a JBL D130's in it handling 100Hz to 5KHz and then to two, upper mid cabs containing two JBL D110's in each cabinet handling 5KHz to 10Khz. Topping it off was a JBL two-inch driver and horn going from 10KHz to 20KHz. We ran this system four-way mono with JBL electronic crossover. It fucking screamed. I also made all of the stage monitors. Fifteen-inch JBL D130 with a JBL Bullet horn. Those would shave you if you cranked them.

At this time, we had our own recording studio. Due to personnel changes, a lot of the tapes "walked off." Yeah, we were still using a TEAC 3340 at 15IPS and a TEAC two track mastering deck. Old school shit all the way.

I gave up playing in a band in late 1992. I got married. She didn't want me in the bars with other women around. That's when I fucked up. The band broke up and a lot of people were angry. A lot of my stuff was removed by other band members. Their thinking was it had become community property. Like a fool, I sold two modded pre-CBS Fender Bassman's. Man, I would like to have them now. Cha-ching!

There is so much more to the story, but I will close for now.

RiverRatt · 11-16-2009, 03:07 PM

I had asked about the EL34s over on the power tube thread. We've probably covered the 12AX7s here, too. The Matsushita EL34s look to be around the same price as RFTs and I've read reviews that said they are about as close to Mullards as you can get. Being a Philips company, I'm sure they are good. I was just asking if anyone had any hands-on experience with them. Looking forward to your review of the 12AX7s.

MartyStrat54 · 11-16-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el zilcho

Anybody hear of EAT? They've been making a KT88 for a while but it's a wee bit expensive (like, more than my amp expensive). The good part is that they actually list ratings and specs for their tubes (800v plate for the KT88).

I noticed that they started making an ECC803S, but...it's got a big ol' heatsink glued around it??? I have no idea how much it costs.

European Audio Team-EAT-Made their rep on 300B tubes and then the KT88's. They are more geared for the high end Hi FI crowd.

The heatsink slips on. It can be removed. Everything they make is high dollar, because their batch runs are kept low for quality control.

Here is a page that shows prices. It looks as if the ECC803S is around $210 each as the heatsink is $40.

Too much for me to handle.

https://www.audioadvisor.com/products.asp?dept=166

MartyStrat54 · 11-16-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRatt

I had asked about the EL34s over on the power tube thread. We've probably covered the 12AX7s here, too. The Matsushita EL34s look to be around the same price as RFTs and I've read reviews that said they are about as close to Mullards as you can get. Being a Philips company, I'm sure they are good. I was just asking if anyone had any hands-on experience with them. Looking forward to your review of the 12AX7s.

I'm going to closely inspect them against the "Valvo" Raytheon and see if they are the same. The way Philips worked was (as I've said before) they had all of the designers. The prototypes were farmed out to one of the many companies they owned. (You can even find Amperex branded Mullards.) This is why Valvo may have been selected to make the slant top getter, although I have also seen some Miniwatt slant tops as well. All of these were Philips design. Now, Philips also had control over the Matsushita plant as well. They may have liked the performance of the slant top 12AX7 and decided that is what they would have Matsushita make.

I'm hoping one will be as stout as my Valvo Raytheon, as I would like to A/B it in my amp. When I get them, I will test them on my tester and then I will run them in an amp. I got five for $58. Smoking deal. Most people on EBAY that buy tubes are like sheep. They follow the leader. If you know tubes, you can find neat little deals, because no one cares about Japanese tubes. The Japanese made some of the best 12AX7 style tubes. One is the 12DM7. It may have only been made by NEC. If you find one, grab it. I only have two in my inventory...both NEC.

Got our first snow today. I'm glad I got that trip to Oklahoma out of the way.

wegman · 11-17-2009, 08:48 PM

Man I am totally on GE tubes. I swapped out my power tubes (I went back to the GT's) and it totally changed the way the GE tubes sound. I have one GE in V1 and one in V2 and I totally have got my sound. Chords just grind away and solo's are clean and articulate. The Ge's are very quiet to, not alot of noise. Is there anything special about the GE tubes? I believe they are long plates. They sound and react totally different then any other tube I have tried in the V1 and V2 spots. I like them better then the RCA black plate.

I am in tone heaven. Playing is fun again. I am still looking into getting a set of 6CA7's when I have some extra coin because I think those will just be the iceing on the cake.

What a difference.

MartyStrat54 · 11-17-2009, 08:59 PM

Well, you can roll all of your preamp tubes and find a sweet combination and then change out the power tubes and it doesn't sound the same. That's why a pro tube roller has that nice stash of tubes. He can tackle any type of sound problem with his stash of tubes. I'm working on building a stash of tubes for an amp I don't even have yet. But I will get it and then I will have primo tubes to put in it. Yeah, baby!

solarburnDSL50 · 11-17-2009, 09:34 PM

Yeah when you change the power tubes its likely you find yourself rolling the preamps all over again. Good to see Wegman it sounds great. I'm luv'n mine too.

ken361 · 11-18-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wegman

Man I am totally on GE tubes. I swapped out my power tubes (I went back to the GT's) and it totally changed the way the GE tubes sound. I have one GE in V1 and one in V2 and I totally have got my sound. Chords just grind away and solo's are clean and articulate. The Ge's are very quiet to, not alot of noise. Is there anything special about the GE tubes? I believe they are long plates. They sound and react totally different then any other tube I have tried in the V1 and V2 spots. I like them better then the RCA black plate.

I am in tone heaven. Playing is fun again. I am still looking into getting a set of 6CA7's when I have some extra coin because I think those will just be the iceing on the cake.

What a difference.

the ge's are clean sounding! sorry I meant the RCA regular plates

MartyStrat54 · 11-18-2009, 06:32 PM

This is Generation 1 of Condor. Different bass player and drummer. I didn't get along with the bass player. He liked playing wimpy shit. The drummer looked at our set list and said, "Yeah, I can handle it." After the first rehearsal, he told us he didn't know any of the songs. These two guys lasted for about a year. Then we moved on to Generation 2 (that I already posted) and then it became Generation 3, which I didn't like due to how many members there were and all the cry-baby shit and whining.

What does this have to do with Preamp Tubes? Absolutely nothing...but I'm posting it for JOE.

We are in our cabin. We have played one night of a weekend gig. It is about 9 AM and we are already hitting the booze and the party favors. We partied all day and then went back to the cabin, showered, got dressed and went on stage for almost five hours. Rock and Roll, baby!!!

MartyStrat54 · 11-18-2009, 06:47 PM

ALAN,

I got the Matsushita 12AX7 slant getter tubes today and they are the bomb! Had a couple that are screamers, 30-32 and 35-35. The other three were very nice at 24-24, 25-24 and 25-26. I tried the 24-24 with the 30-32 and I have to say it moved me. I think I may have found something here. These are made on Mullard (Philips) equipment. The base of the tube flashes when turned on and the tube has a pinched top. What a bargain for some really great sounding tubes. I'd have to put this combo up against an Amperex and a high gain Amperex. I would have to say that the sound is that close.

I will post a picture of the slant getter Raytheon up against one of these.

I will be keeping my eyes open for more of these.

solarburnDSL50 · 11-18-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

This is Generation 1 of Condor. Different bass player and drummer. I didn't get along with the bass player. He liked playing wimpy shit. The drummer looked at our set list and said, "Yeah, I can handle it." After the first rehearsal, he told us he didn't know any of the songs. These two guys lasted for about a year. Then we moved on to Generation 2 (that I already posted) and then it became Generation 3, which I didn't like due to how many members there were and all the cry-baby shit and whining.

What does this have to do with Preamp Tubes? Absolutely nothing...but I'm posting it for JOE.

We are in our cabin. We have played one night of a weekend gig. It is about 9 AM and we are already hitting the booze and the party favors. We partied all day and then went back to the cabin, showered, got dressed and went on stage for almost five hours. Rock and Roll, baby!!!

A little R&R before the R&R show!

I hate that whiny ass shit that happens but its like its inevitable. The guys I was with were really cool outside of a band context but that shit changes especially when Rock Star-itus rears it's ugly head. I just wanted to play! Couple of the guys had it bad hehe. I mean got really carried away. Broke the band up. Drummer got booted. Hated that. I left shortly after saying see ya! I did get to have some fun though before it got unfun!

wegman · 11-18-2009, 07:44 PM

Can one of you tube masters identify this tube for me? It's an RCA but what I am wondering is it an older one? It is labled Baldwin Pianos in white lettering but it has the octaganol 12AX7 symbol. I don't really care for how these sound and I am wondering why because the RCA's are supposed to be decent from what I have read.

Thanks

IMG_0294.jpg

MartyStrat54 · 11-18-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wegman

Can one of you tube masters identify this tube for me? It's an RCA but what I am wondering is it an older one? It is labled Baldwin Pianos in white lettering but it has the octaganol 12AX7 symbol. I don't really care for how these sound and I am wondering why because the RCA's are supposed to be decent from what I have read.

Thanks

Attachment 1557

Your picture won't enlarge. I can't tell anything from the little picture. Usually the Baldwins with white ink that were RCA's were good tubes. Look and see if you can locate a small group of letters and numbers. Do you see anything like 57,58,59,60 or 61? As I said to you before, the white RCA's were probably the original tubes. The orange/red logo RCA's were probably replacements. That means the white RCA's that you have might be worn out and that's why they don't sound so good. Just a hunch.

wegman · 11-18-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Your picture won't enlarge. I can't tell anything from the little picture. Usually the Baldwins with white ink that were RCA's were good tubes. Look and see if you can locate a small group of letters and numbers. Do you see anything like 57,58,59,60 or 61? As I said to you before, the white RCA's were probably the original tubes. The orange/red logo RCA's were probably replacements. That means the white RCA's that you have might be worn out and that's why they don't sound so good. Just a hunch.

The picture won't enlarge?

I found several that say 58-52 and then 274 below that on them.

Does that help at all?

solarburnDSL50 · 11-18-2009, 09:07 PM

Its enlarging for me.

MartyStrat54 · 11-18-2009, 09:28 PM

What??? You mean my mega computer system is malfunctioning??? Man the main sails, swab the deck, choke the parrot.

Okay, I'm back. That helps. Those were made the 52nd week (last week in a year) of 1958.

274 is RCA's EIA number.

They are probably worn out. This is why I suggested getting the tubes tested. Old organs are great, but sometimes they have worn out tubes or borderline one's. Until you find a tester, you can only guess at what you have.

wegman · 11-18-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

What??? You mean my mega computer system is malfunctioning??? Man the main sails, swab the deck, choke the parrot.

Okay, I'm back. That helps. Those were made the 52nd week (last week in a year) of 1958.

274 is RCA's EIA number.

They are probably worn out. This is why I suggested getting the tubes tested. Old organs are great, but sometimes they have worn out tubes or borderline one's. Until you find a tester, you can only guess at what you have.

Thanks for the info Marty.

Yea the next closest tube tester I found is 52 miles away. The next closest after that I know of is sending them to you.

I didn't expect to pull primo tubes out of this thing. I was hoping for something workable. I guess I will head down to GB (Green Bay Wi.) and get them tested. The cat down there said he will let me use his tube tester for no charge because a friend of mine does alot of business with him. I think I will do that this weekend. Like you said I will then know what I am working with.

It's only the Baldwin tubes that sound kind of lifeless and I thought they were supposed to be the best of the bunch so perhaps they are dead as you say.

solarburnDSL50 · 11-18-2009, 09:53 PM

I'd just send them to Marty. He'll do it for free, just pay shipping both ways which isn't much. Win/win if you ask me. I'd want to know but that's me...

RiverRatt · 11-19-2009, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

ALAN,

I got the Matsushita 12AX7 slant getter tubes today and they are the bomb! Had a couple that are screamers, 30-32 and 35-35. The other three were very nice at 24-24, 25-24 and 25-26. I tried the 24-24 with the 30-32 and I have to say it moved me. I think I may have found something here. These are made on Mullard (Philips) equipment. The base of the tube flashes when turned on and the tube has a pinched top. What a bargain for some really great sounding tubes. I'd have to put this combo up against an Amperex and a high gain Amperex. I would have to say that the sound is that close.

I will post a picture of the slant getter Raytheon up against one of these.

I will be keeping my eyes open for more of these.

Sounds good! Let me know if you get a surplus of them - I might be interested in a single tube.

MartyStrat54 · 11-19-2009, 05:24 PM

Man this is the longest page in the thread. Maybe after I post these pictures it will bump over to page 76.

As promised for the Ratt Man, here are pictures of the Raytheon Slant Getter that might be made by Valvo. Up next to it is one of the five Matsushita Slant Getters I bought. I've already tested two of them (see prior post). The Matsushita's were made on Mullard equipment and that is why the plate (holes) are like a Mullard and not like the Valvo. Also, the O Getter is fastened differently. Other than that, they are pretty close. Conlusion-The Raytheon is not a Japanese made tube. Probably made by Valvo or Miniwatt. Here are some beauty shots.

All I can say is that if you ever get a chance to buy a Japanese tube, their quality was excellent. They have a reputation of being good copiers. Maybe that's a good thing. These tubes rock and I got them dirt cheap.

RiverRatt · 11-19-2009, 07:29 PM

I've got a bid in on some. We'll see what happens. And you say they flash, too. That's interesting. I found out awhile ago that Ei tubes will flash. Maybe we should keep a list. "Tubes that Flash". I wonder why the Telefunken won't?

solarburnDSL50 · 11-19-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRatt

I've got a bid in on some. We'll see what happens. And you say they flash, too. That's interesting. I found out awhile ago that Ei tubes will flash. Maybe we should keep a list. "Tubes that Flash". I wonder why the Telefunken won't?

So far my RFT's and Mullard AT7 flash. Thought there was one more but I can't put my finger on it now...

solarburnDSL50 · 11-19-2009, 08:41 PM

Put a smooth plate Telefunken in the Night Train. I emailed Vox about the order of the tubes in the NT and the answer is V1 & V2 from Left to right back row standing facing front are power tubes. V3 & V4 are the 12AX7's, V4 being the PI. I see alot of peeps think the order is the usual but it isn't according to Vox.

So I have right now the Russian NOS EL84's in the power section and a Tele in V3 & V4 is an RFT ECC83.

Again the Tele improved the tone. What I like about these is how the Tele effects soloing. The notes are right up front, round, articulate, warm/smooth but they also sing. The higher frequencies albeit smooth still let your notes scream/sing when you want.

Alot of times smoother or warmer can translate into duller and duller does not sing. Duller gets buried in the sound field. That's exactly what happens with JJ ECC83S's. Frigg'n duller-riffic.

Anyways...Tele win again especially for blues or rock oriented stuff. Marty I put the 24/24 smooth plate in. Noice!

ken361 · 11-19-2009, 08:58 PM

this pic is not my tube but looks similar, maybe a shorter plate

Attachment 1557[/quote]

Hey marty mine says 22J on the side,have some info on this? RCA 1950's

ken361 · 11-19-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarburnDSL50

So far my RFT's and Mullard AT7 flash. Thought there was one more but I can't put my finger on it now...

my mullard flashed also

RiverRatt · 11-19-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarburnDSL50

So far my RFT's and Mullard AT7 flash. Thought there was one more but I can't put my finger on it now...

My Mullard AT7 CV4004 flashes so bright that it lights the other tubes. You have a RFT that flashes? Mine won't. Does yours look like this one?

solarburnDSL50 · 11-19-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRatt

My Mullard AT7 CV4004 flashes so bright that it lights the other tubes. You have a RFT that flashes? Mine won't. Does yours look like this one?

Looks the same. Now its no where near as much as the AT7 but they do when I'm roll'n them.

Fine European and American NOS Audio and Guitar Tubes.

MartyStrat54 · 11-19-2009, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRatt

I've got a bid in on some. We'll see what happens. And you say they flash, too. That's interesting. I found out awhile ago that Ei tubes will flash. Maybe we should keep a list. "Tubes that Flash". I wonder why the Telefunken won't?

How about because Philips didn't own them. A Philips tube will flash, so this is about 15 brands made in England, Europe and the USA. And yes, I have certain tubes that look like a railroad flare going off. You could read the paper with the light they put off. Some just barely glow. However, they all sound great.

I like that though. A list of all the tubes that glow.

1.Mullard
2.Amperex
3.Miniwatt
4.Valvo
5.Ei
6.BEL
7.Mazda
8.Lorenz
9.Raytheon Slant Getter (Valvo)

I don't know much about the five or six other W. German tube companies and whether they had any Philips influence. RFT, Tesla and Tungsram??? Three or four other Japanese companies that made copies of Mullards and Philips???

Add yours to the list.

ken361 · 11-20-2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken361

this pic is not my tube but looks similar, maybe a shorter plate

Attachment 1557

Hey marty mine says 22J on the side,have some info on this? RCA 1950's[/QUOTE]

bump

11-16-2009, 03:07 PM	#2223 (permalink)
RiverRatt Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Between Memphis and Nashville Posts: 897	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? I had asked about the EL34s over on the power tube thread. We've probably covered the 12AX7s here, too. The Matsushita EL34s look to be around the same price as RFTs and I've read reviews that said they are about as close to Mullards as you can get. Being a Philips company, I'm sure they are good. I was just asking if anyone had any hands-on experience with them. Looking forward to your review of the 12AX7s.

11-17-2009, 08:48 PM	#2226 (permalink)
wegman Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Not far frome the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field Posts: 334	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Man I am totally on GE tubes. I swapped out my power tubes (I went back to the GT's) and it totally changed the way the GE tubes sound. I have one GE in V1 and one in V2 and I totally have got my sound. Chords just grind away and solo's are clean and articulate. The Ge's are very quiet to, not alot of noise. Is there anything special about the GE tubes? I believe they are long plates. They sound and react totally different then any other tube I have tried in the V1 and V2 spots. I like them better then the RCA black plate. I am in tone heaven. Playing is fun again. I am still looking into getting a set of 6CA7's when I have some extra coin because I think those will just be the iceing on the cake. What a difference. __________________ Ian St Ian says "If your not playing Gibson and Marshall your a wanker!" Marshall JCM 800 2210 (1989) Marshall MG CD10 (hi guys!) Gibson Les Paul Custom (1981) Mackie 24x8 mixing console Alesis ADAT HD 24 digital recorder Shure KSM 27 Visit me and check out my tunes at Acid Planet! http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp...=286989&T=2378

11-18-2009, 07:44 PM	#2233 (permalink)
wegman Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Not far frome the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field Posts: 334	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Can one of you tube masters identify this tube for me? It's an RCA but what I am wondering is it an older one? It is labled Baldwin Pianos in white lettering but it has the octaganol 12AX7 symbol. I don't really care for how these sound and I am wondering why because the RCA's are supposed to be decent from what I have read. Thanks IMG_0294.jpg __________________ Ian St Ian says "If your not playing Gibson and Marshall your a wanker!" Marshall JCM 800 2210 (1989) Marshall MG CD10 (hi guys!) Gibson Les Paul Custom (1981) Mackie 24x8 mixing console Alesis ADAT HD 24 digital recorder Shure KSM 27 Visit me and check out my tunes at Acid Planet! http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp...=286989&T=2378

11-19-2009, 07:29 PM	#2242 (permalink)
RiverRatt Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Between Memphis and Nashville Posts: 897	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? I've got a bid in on some. We'll see what happens. And you say they flash, too. That's interesting. I found out awhile ago that Ei tubes will flash. Maybe we should keep a list. "Tubes that Flash". I wonder why the Telefunken won't?

11-19-2009, 08:58 PM	#2245 (permalink)
ken361 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 233	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? this pic is not my tube but looks similar, maybe a shorter plate Attachment 1557[/quote] Hey marty mine says 22J on the side,have some info on this? RCA 1950's __________________ tone slut JVM 205h/1960b cab Peavey wolfgang/ EVH frankenstein pup 1959 Epiphone Les paul George L cables Mxr pedals Last edited by ken361; 11-20-2009 at 08:37 AM.

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