Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? - Page 70

wegman · 11-07-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Well the orange lettered tubes were that last generation of RCA. Most Hi Fi junkies want the white lettered tubes. These I believe were made up until the early 60's. I personally think the older tubes are better. There are many reasons for this and I have discussed these topics many times. The white lettered tubes were made on equipment that was not worn out. RCA kept using the same equipment over and over. By the time they were making the orange lettered tubes, the equipment was pretty worn out. So the tolerances were not as close as the older tubes. Are orange RCA tubes good? Sure. They blow a CP tube out of the water. You just have to realize that the difference between a good NOS tube and a great NOS tube is not very much. Will a Telefunken stomp the RCA? Most people would say, "Yes." However, it boils down to personal preference. Now I will say that I am partial to Amperex (Dutch made) tubes, or anything made by Philips. To me, these are the best tubes.

If you hang around long enough, you will pick up on a lot of the jargon.

Ok. Great info.

Now the Baldwin tubes I have I was told have the RCA 12AX7 stamp on them. Any idea what version of an RCA those are?

Lastly while I am bombarding you with questions, I have 3 GE tubes that are super hot. I mean they are really high gain and somewhat noisy. They have white lettering on them. Do you know anything about them?

Thanks

MartyStrat54 · 11-07-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wegman

Ok. Great info.

Now the Baldwin tubes I have I was told have the RCA 12AX7 stamp on them. Any idea what version of an RCA those are?

Lastly while I am bombarding you with questions, I have 3 GE tubes that are super hot. I mean they are really high gain and somewhat noisy. They have white lettering on them. Do you know anything about them?

Thanks

If the tube number is inside of a stretched out octagonal box, they are RCA. If there are any other numbers on the tube and the ink is white, they are older RCA's as I have already described. If the bottom row of numbers says 59, 60 or 61, that is the year the tube was made. What I think is that the original tubes were Baldwin/RCA tubes. Then the organ got serviced over the years and the orange RCA's were used by the serviceman.

The GE are probably so stout that they are overloading your preamp circuit. You can use high gainers in your PI, tone stack and I believe even your reverb driver. (You might want to check for noise using them in the reverb driver.)

Tubes like the GE have limited use. They are the kind of tube that gets used for 10 years and then it tests normal.

Procter2812 · 11-07-2009, 04:58 PM

Well well well... just waiting to pounce my bids on a Telefunken smooth plate. They supposed to be one of the best

That organ is a real score il have to keep a look out on ebay for them. I know a guy who had a TSL serviced by an old guy who knows amps inside out.

anyway he needed new power valves and stuck a matched quad of Mullard Xf2's in there for £30!

wegman · 11-07-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

If the tube number is inside of a stretched out octagonal box, they are RCA. If there are any other numbers on the tube and the ink is white, they are older RCA's as I have already described. If the bottom row of numbers says 59, 60 or 61, that is the year the tube was made. What I think is that the original tubes were Baldwin/RCA tubes. Then the organ got serviced over the years and the orange RCA's were used by the serviceman.

The GE are probably so stout that they are overloading your preamp circuit. You can use high gainers in your PI, tone stack and I believe even your reverb driver. (You might want to check for noise using them in the reverb driver.)

Tubes like the GE have limited use. They are the kind of tube that gets used for 10 years and then it tests normal.

Thanks again for the info Marty.

The GE's are really hot. I will have to try them in some other spots. I like / am going for alot of gain but they are just to much in V1 or V2.

MartyStrat54 · 11-07-2009, 07:22 PM

Well another no-go for Black Plates. One of my regular sellers had five strong ones listed on EBAY. They went for $189.02. Three months ago I was buying the same tubes from the same guy for $78 to $85 (for five tubes).

Well kiddies, maybe that time has come when the price of NOS goes through the roof. Lord I hope not.

MartyStrat54 · 11-07-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Procter2812

Well well well... just waiting to pounce my bids on a Telefunken smooth plate. They supposed to be one of the best

That organ is a real score il have to keep a look out on ebay for them. I know a guy who had a TSL serviced by an old guy who knows amps inside out.

anyway he needed new power valves and stuck a matched quad of Mullard Xf2's in there for £30!

The Mullard xf2's are kick ass. I have a set in my TSL602. They handle the high plate voltage with ease and have a killa sound.

solarburnDSL50 · 11-07-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Well another no-go for Black Plates. One of my regular sellers had five strong ones listed on EBAY. They went for $189.02. Three months ago I was buying the same tubes from the same guy for $78 to $85 (for five tubes).

Well kiddies, maybe that time has come when the price of NOS goes through the roof. Lord I hope not.

Welcome to double the price.com where we have all your favorite NOS tubes waiting for you to pony up for!

MartyStrat54 · 11-07-2009, 08:02 PM

The sad thing is, it's not funny. If I have to buy high, I have to sell high. When tubes sell at the going high retail price, then you can't mark them up and sell them for an even higher price, because no one will buy them.

Man this sucks!

solarburnDSL50 · 11-07-2009, 08:08 PM

Yeah its a bad deal for everyone. My post above was more pissed off sarcasm then my trying to crack a joke.

Why are they doubling the prices...?

wegman · 11-07-2009, 08:13 PM

I wish I would have got on the NOS bandwagon a few years ago when prices were probably civil. I was doing a little poking around on the internet and the prices were down right ludicrous. It would have been cool to load up on NOS like 5 years ago.

As usual I am late to the party.

MartyStrat54 · 11-07-2009, 08:15 PM

Oh, I didn't take it in a bad way. I knew what you meant.

I have no idea as to why the price of tubes has tripled in three months.

solarburnDSL50 · 11-07-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Oh, I didn't take it in a bad way. I knew what you meant.

I have no idea as to why the price of tubes has tripled in three months.

Yeah I just don't get it. Maybe sellers are monitoring the activity and trying to cash in and see how far peeps will go. Shit what a time to raise prices...during a world wide economic shitstorm.

Bastids!

Procter2812 · 11-08-2009, 01:12 PM

Finally scored a Telefunken Long-smooth plate.

£18... Iv been dying to get one after reading what you all say about them. Im looking forward to this one!

MartyStrat54 · 11-08-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Procter2812

Finally scored a Telefunken Long-smooth plate.

£18... Iv been dying to get one after reading what you all say about them. Im looking forward to this one!

Way to go. I think you will like it. Solar is going to be trying some Tele's out this week. I can't wait to hear what you guys have to say about them.

racko7566 · 11-08-2009, 07:31 PM

What's up all, Im in the middle of a several month remodeling job on a farm house I will be moving into shortly. Well after working all day I started snooping around in some of the small barns that are mostly junk piles and to my suprise I found a really old rotted away philco radio, a stereo turn table consel combo and an ancient tv. Well between them all I grabbed 29 tubes, which as a noob I dont think they will work in an amp but I know nothing of this sort. So heres a list and a pic of what I got for Marty and Solar and you other knowledgeable guys to
take a look at and see if any of them can be used.

3- philco 24a
2- philco 45
1- philco 27
1- philco 80 or 86 cant tell
1- rca 6v6gta
1- rca 5y3gt
2- ba6 or13a6 cant tell
1- rca 6av6
1- 12be6
3- 4bz6
1- 12av6
1- 6be6
1- 12ba6
1- 50c5
1- hs8
1- 35w4
1- 38 hk7
1- 6t6a
1- 6ln8
1- 17jz8
1- ge 68c7 or69c7 cant tell

Well thats all of them. here is a pic. If you want to see a certain tube post it and Ill do a solo shot. Thanks for any info.

MartyStrat54 · 11-08-2009, 08:29 PM

The 45's if good fetch about $10 to $25 each.

The 27's if they have the mesh grid can bring about $45 a pair.

The 24A's can go for 99 cents or as much as $12. Depends on brand and condition.

The 80 or 86 tube? If it has twin plates with a square cut on the top of the plate, it is a rectifier. This would be an 80 tube.

There isn't an 86 tube. There is an EF86, or a PCL86. I think you have an 80 tube. 99 cents on up to 14 or 15 bucks.

The rest of the tubes I doubt if you could sell, but I would stash them. If you had gotten a pair of 6V6's, you could sell the pair. It's hard to sell just one. Hang on to the 5Y3 as well. It is a rectifier tube.

I have a separate box that I keep odd ball tubes in. That was some old unit with all of those "globe" shaped tubes. So old in fact that it didn't have any 12AX7's. It was probably made in the early 40's before WWII. Wow!

racko7566 · 11-08-2009, 08:37 PM

Damn.. thanks Marty. I really like old stuff, dont care about what there worth really, just fun exploring for them, and some are so cool with double getters on the same side and stuff. Wow if you think about it, some of these tubes could of had the sound waves of Orson Wells voice reading war of the worlds going through them. Sooo cool!!!!!

racko7566 · 11-08-2009, 08:41 PM

If you guys dont mind I would like to post some pics of the cool looking tubes.

MartyStrat54 · 11-08-2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racko7566

If you guys dont mind I would like to post some pics of the cool looking tubes.

Go right ahead. I love looking at those old tubes. Are most of them Philco branded? If you can get a clear shot of any acid etched part number, that would be great. Philco used a lot of RCA tubes. Look for the RCA octagon box on the tube. Also, Tung-Sol was big back then.

jupiter89 · 11-08-2009, 09:46 PM

I wish I had 1/100th of the tube knowledge some of you guys have. Let me say I am a Marshall guy (have 5 heads), but I also have a Vox AC4TV, Night Train and will be getting a 1976 Hiwatt Custom 50 this week partially for curiosity and also to see how a Pink Floyd type of tone will sound through it vs. Marshall. (Unsure whether I will keep it or sell it). Anyway, I want find out if the tubes in it are good choices or not. There are 3 RCA 12ax7 preamp tubes, a Groove Tube ECC81 P/I tube, and the 2 power tubes are Seimens EL34's. I see the RCA pre-amp tubes mentioned a lot but not the Seimens power tubes. Are they a good tube ? I am almost positive that the early Hiwatts came with Mullards, because Dave Reeves the company's creator used to work for Mullard.

racko7566 · 11-08-2009, 09:52 PM

This is the Philco 24a

racko7566 · 11-08-2009, 10:04 PM

Heres the 45, their awesome looking...

MartyStrat54 · 11-08-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jupiter89

I wish I had 1/100th of the tube knowledge some of you guys have. Let me say I am a Marshall guy (have 5 heads), but I also have a Vox AC4TV, Night Train and will be getting a 1976 Hiwatt Custom 50 this week partially for curiosity and also to see how a Pink Floyd type of tone will sound through it vs. Marshall. (Unsure whether I will keep it or sell it). Anyway, I want find out if the tubes in it are good choices or not. There are 3 RCA 12ax7 preamp tubes, a Groove Tube ECC81 P/I tube, and the 2 power tubes are Seimens EL34's. I see the RCA pre-amp tubes mentioned a lot but not the Seimens power tubes. Are they a good tube ? I am almost positive that the early Hiwatts came with Mullards, because Dave Reeves the company's creator used to work for Mullard.

A lot has to do with how strong the tubes are. The RCA's are fine preamp tubes if they aren't worn out. A 12AX7 can be damn near dead and still amplify the signal. I posted a long time ago about customers who actually liked worn out 12AX7's in their V1 position. Assuming the RCA's are good, I will say that the ECC81 (12AT7) can be replaced by another 12AX7 (ECC83). You don't have to use the ECC81 if you don't want to. Now the Siemens EL34's are in fact RFT EL34's and they are a superior EL34.

Do the RCA's have orange or white lettering on the tubes?

If you need any more info, just let me know.

racko7566 · 11-08-2009, 10:35 PM

Was wondering, do you guys think NOS tubes in an amp make more of a difference in an older point to point amp then a printed circuit board type?

MartyStrat54 · 11-08-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racko7566

Was wondering, do you guys think NOS tubes in an amp make more of a difference in an older point to point amp then a printed circuit board type?

Every amp has its own tone (soul). Installing good quality NOS tubes will add to that tone. However, I do not think that it makes any difference on how the amp is wired. I mean it will make the amp sound different, but it won't make the tubes work differently. Most older amps had carbon composition resistors and they are known for being noisy and drifting. The more modern Marshalls use better resistors.

In short, the answer to your question is, "No."

RiverRatt · 11-09-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

That's what I like about you Alan...you got it bad. You're a tube-aholic. You nailed that slant top getter. Of course Valvo is a Philips brand. I would really like to try out a Valvo, Miniwatt and Amperex in a headphone amp and see how they sound. I would have to say similar.

Once again, great job of nailing that down.

What ever happened with this tube? How did it sound? If you ever get to feeling generous, I wouldn't mind trying it out sometime.

solarburnDSL50 · 11-09-2009, 04:46 PM

Well my fellow tube rollers I just got my Top Secret highly classified box of tubes today. Martimus gave "ME" a special assignment which involves a very intense session of "tone titillation" here at our Washington facility. What is "tone titillation" you ask? Well I can't tell you otherwise the boyz in Black will hunt you down. Capeesh?

I'll give a hint...

I'll be getting Funken on my Tele.

Agent Solarius rolling out a here.

PS- They're watching...you!

RiverRatt · 11-09-2009, 05:31 PM

So when do we get the report? Crank them suckers up and dial in a little dirt. See ya in a few hours.

solarburnDSL50 · 11-09-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRatt

So when do we get the report? Crank them suckers up and dial in a little dirt. See ya in a few hours.

I'm going to be at this a few days cause of my off and on schedule to play.

I just put in a smooth plate rated at 24-24 on Marty's tester and it sounded really nice on the green channel. Overdrive was smooth and warm. I've got a RFT Tele smooth plate version in it now with a 24-23 rating. So I'm just going to go back and forth with a couple today and rate those 2. That's all I'll have time for. First impressions of the character of the tube is I like them. Oh and I'm just doing V1 for now.

I'll get more detailed as I go along. I will try them in my NT as well so I'm roll'n 2 amps. Needless to say Its going to be a long session coming hehe.

MartyStrat54 · 11-09-2009, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRatt

What ever happened with this tube? How did it sound? If you ever get to feeling generous, I wouldn't mind trying it out sometime.

It's difficult to hear what it sounds like, because it is a V2 tube and stout at that. I used it with a 7025 to see if I could hear a little more of it and I would say it has a little more top end to it. Overall, the tube turns my Marshall into a harmonics machine. Did I say high gain?

A sad story. Last night, I tried to buy two Valvo slant getter 12AX7's. The price wasn't bad, but the shipping was $15 from Germany. When I went to pounce on them with 30 seconds left, the EBAY software froze and I lost out on them. The pair went for $49. Son of a...

There is a guy that has another pair of Valvo's, but his auction starts at $99. They are out there. I would like to find one or two suitable for V1.

11-07-2009, 04:58 PM	#2073 (permalink)
Procter2812 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Manchester!! Posts: 1,035	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Well well well... just waiting to pounce my bids on a Telefunken smooth plate. They supposed to be one of the best That organ is a real score il have to keep a look out on ebay for them. I know a guy who had a TSL serviced by an old guy who knows amps inside out. anyway he needed new power valves and stuck a matched quad of Mullard Xf2's in there for £30! __________________ www.sexpistolstribute.co.uk JCM800 2203 JCM2000 TSL100 Marshall 1936 My Custom Cab Gibson Les Paul Custom Orville Les Paul Custom Fender Highway One Stratocaster Boss EQ Ibanez Tube Screamer Crybaby Wah Modded Boss TU-2 Phase 90 MXR Boss Chorus CE-5 Boss OS-2 Modded

11-07-2009, 08:13 PM	#2080 (permalink)
wegman Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Not far frome the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field Posts: 334	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? I wish I would have got on the NOS bandwagon a few years ago when prices were probably civil. I was doing a little poking around on the internet and the prices were down right ludicrous. It would have been cool to load up on NOS like 5 years ago. As usual I am late to the party. __________________ Ian St Ian says "If your not playing Gibson and Marshall your a wanker!" Marshall JCM 800 2210 (1989) Marshall MG CD10 (hi guys!) Gibson Les Paul Custom (1981) Mackie 24x8 mixing console Alesis ADAT HD 24 digital recorder Shure KSM 27 Visit me and check out my tunes at Acid Planet! http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp...=286989&T=2378

11-08-2009, 01:12 PM	#2083 (permalink)
Procter2812 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Manchester!! Posts: 1,035	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Finally scored a Telefunken Long-smooth plate. £18... Iv been dying to get one after reading what you all say about them. Im looking forward to this one! __________________ www.sexpistolstribute.co.uk JCM800 2203 JCM2000 TSL100 Marshall 1936 My Custom Cab Gibson Les Paul Custom Orville Les Paul Custom Fender Highway One Stratocaster Boss EQ Ibanez Tube Screamer Crybaby Wah Modded Boss TU-2 Phase 90 MXR Boss Chorus CE-5 Boss OS-2 Modded

11-08-2009, 07:31 PM	#2085 (permalink)
racko7566 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 151	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? What's up all, Im in the middle of a several month remodeling job on a farm house I will be moving into shortly. Well after working all day I started snooping around in some of the small barns that are mostly junk piles and to my suprise I found a really old rotted away philco radio, a stereo turn table consel combo and an ancient tv. Well between them all I grabbed 29 tubes, which as a noob I dont think they will work in an amp but I know nothing of this sort. So heres a list and a pic of what I got for Marty and Solar and you other knowledgeable guys to take a look at and see if any of them can be used. 3- philco 24a 2- philco 45 1- philco 27 1- philco 80 or 86 cant tell 1- rca 6v6gta 1- rca 5y3gt 2- ba6 or13a6 cant tell 1- rca 6av6 1- 12be6 3- 4bz6 1- 12av6 1- 6be6 1- 12ba6 1- 50c5 1- hs8 1- 35w4 1- 38 hk7 1- 6t6a 1- 6ln8 1- 17jz8 1- ge 68c7 or69c7 cant tell Well thats all of them. here is a pic. If you want to see a certain tube post it and Ill do a solo shot. Thanks for any info.

11-08-2009, 08:37 PM	#2087 (permalink)
racko7566 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 151	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Damn.. thanks Marty. I really like old stuff, dont care about what there worth really, just fun exploring for them, and some are so cool with double getters on the same side and stuff. Wow if you think about it, some of these tubes could of had the sound waves of Orson Wells voice reading war of the worlds going through them. Sooo cool!!!!!

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11-08-2009, 08:41 PM	#2088 (permalink)
racko7566 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 151	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? If you guys dont mind I would like to post some pics of the cool looking tubes.

11-08-2009, 09:46 PM	#2090 (permalink)
jupiter89 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 52	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? I wish I had 1/100th of the tube knowledge some of you guys have. Let me say I am a Marshall guy (have 5 heads), but I also have a Vox AC4TV, Night Train and will be getting a 1976 Hiwatt Custom 50 this week partially for curiosity and also to see how a Pink Floyd type of tone will sound through it vs. Marshall. (Unsure whether I will keep it or sell it). Anyway, I want find out if the tubes in it are good choices or not. There are 3 RCA 12ax7 preamp tubes, a Groove Tube ECC81 P/I tube, and the 2 power tubes are Seimens EL34's. I see the RCA pre-amp tubes mentioned a lot but not the Seimens power tubes. Are they a good tube ? I am almost positive that the early Hiwatts came with Mullards, because Dave Reeves the company's creator used to work for Mullard.

11-08-2009, 09:52 PM	#2091 (permalink)
racko7566 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 151	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? This is the Philco 24a

11-08-2009, 10:04 PM	#2092 (permalink)
racko7566 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 151	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Heres the 45, their awesome looking... Last edited by racko7566; 11-09-2009 at 03:49 PM.

11-08-2009, 10:35 PM	#2094 (permalink)
racko7566 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 151	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Was wondering, do you guys think NOS tubes in an amp make more of a difference in an older point to point amp then a printed circuit board type?

11-09-2009, 05:31 PM	#2098 (permalink)
RiverRatt Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Between Memphis and Nashville Posts: 1,526	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? So when do we get the report? Crank them suckers up and dial in a little dirt. See ya in a few hours.

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