Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? - Page 57

solarburnDSL50 · 10-12-2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken361

yeah i roll like you do, I go back and forth to see what pans out the best. Mines jvm sounds great with the RFT v1 and the penta M tube v2, that balances the rft. getting a thick awsome metal tone on my paul guitar.

Right on man. Love a nice thick gain.

I find my JP 12AX7WA in V2 pairs up real well with the RFT in V1. Also putting the JP in V1 and pairing it with a Mullard, BP and RFT all in V2 is good as well. It mixes nicely with other tubes.

RiverRatt · 10-12-2009, 05:43 PM

Marty, check this tube out.

RCA 7025 Cleartop - USA

These share some similarities with the Sonotone - except they have flat sided spacers like the AU7A. While you're on the tubemonger database, do a search for "cleartop". There are some interesting Brimars that come up.

MartyStrat54 · 10-12-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRatt

Marty, check this tube out.

RCA 7025 Cleartop - USA

These share some similarities with the Sonotone - except they have flat sided spacers like the AU7A. While you're on the tubemonger database, do a search for "cleartop". There are some interesting Brimars that come up.

[The following is just some assorted ramblings I had while trying to answer this post.]

Well, I will say that I haven't been thinking as clear as I have in recent days. I made sort of a stoner remark about these tubes. In other words, cleartops in general. I mean they have side getters. However, I just don't run into that many and the ones I do are not 12AX7's. How rare do you think the Brimar's are? Well, I doubt if I will ever hold one. The RCA side getter 7025 reaffirms my belief that your Sonotone's were made by RCA. As I said, they were probably spec tubes and so the spacers could have been of Sonotone's design. In fact, Sonotone could have supplied the parts to RCA and the tubes were put together on one of RCA's tube lines.

You always have to realize that all of the big electronics companies knew that the way of the tube would be over well before the consumer knew it. RCA had solid state amps in their labs back in the early fifties. It was like when I was young. Did I buy an 8-track player or a cassette deck for my car? Well all of the R and D was in cassettes, which ended with metal oxide tape (that would rust if it got wet). 8-tracks became a thing of the past, but then the CD killed both the cassette and vinyl. I knew about the CD and I warned my friends that in the very near future, their vinyl and cassette tapes would become garbage. Most consumers never saw it coming. It was the same way with tubes. One minute Marantz dealers were praising their tube power amps and a week later all of the tube amps were in the back of the store and the new solid state stuff was center stage.

The point is, RCA may have needed some orders to keep their tube line going. Sonotone may have already decided to scale back, but had orders for their tubes. Everybody did work for everybody. I mean GE and Sylvania were in bed for so long, it's sometimes hard to tell who made the tube. Sylvania was making tubes for RCA by 1970 and the Japanese were making a certain percentage and RCA was doing buy outs from other companies. Most of the tubes had the RCA octagon. Other companies were actually branding them as RCA's. That's why I try to stick with 1966 and below for RCA tubes. 1959 was a super year for RCA 12AX7's.

I only have a small amount of cleartops and I believe them to all be 12AU7's. I'm sorry that I had a brain fart about them.

RiverRatt · 10-12-2009, 08:24 PM

I'm not trying to obsess over these tubes, I've just been doing a few image searches and those were a couple of the more interesting ones I've found. FWIW there's a clear top GE on eBay right now that was made in Canada that looks similar to the RCAs. The Brimars were unexpected, as was a Marconi 7025A cleartop that I ran across somewhere. I guess I'm just interested in the oddities like this that don't fit into any of the stereotypes for a particular manufacturer. I'm having some medical issues that have kept me close to the computer and on some pretty heavy narcotics lately, too. That tends to make search results a lot more interesting.

MartyStrat54 · 10-12-2009, 08:43 PM

Oh I am more than interested in any of this. It is the unique and odd tubes that I find intriguing. I just wish there was a book called, "The Complete History of Tubes." With chapters on what happened after 1966 and who really was still making tubes after 1966. A couple of chapters on what role Mullard and RFT played in supplying tubes labeled as "Made in USA." Did Tungsram make tubes for American companies? All the tube companies that ever was in business in the USA and when did they close their doors. You know, stuff like that. That's what I wish I knew...all of that.

MartyStrat54 · 10-13-2009, 07:02 PM

If you are just glancing over the posts here in this thread, please feel free to ask any question you may have. There are several guys who can answer your questions.

MartyStrat54 · 10-13-2009, 07:05 PM

Show me your tubes! Got any pic's of your favorite tubes? It does not matter if it is current production or NOS. Show us what you got, what position you use it in and why it is your favorite V1 or V2 tube?

RiverRatt · 10-13-2009, 07:16 PM

I don't have any pics. How do you post them?

I tried yours & Joe's method for preamp tube swapping last night. If it's not hurting the tubes, it's sure a lot quicker and easier to compare. V1 was a hard-fought contest. It ended up being between the 20-20 GE you sent me and my 1966 Mullard. These two tubes sounded a LOT alike. The Mullard won out - it had just a little more "hair" and it had a little more punch than the GE. NOW I have sitting in front of me a new contender. Smooth plates. Diamond bottom. Bring it on.

MartyStrat54 · 10-13-2009, 07:35 PM

That's what I'm talking about. A fistfight between a Mullard and a Telefunken. Serious fun.

racko7566 · 10-13-2009, 07:46 PM

I'm really glad you guys mentioned rolling tubes in standby, it makes a world of difference in comparing sounds without forgetting the last sound. Thanks guys.

wegman · 10-13-2009, 07:51 PM

So I have this straight. You can put the amp on standby and safely swap out the pre-amp tubes with the amp on?

racko7566 · 10-13-2009, 07:52 PM

Out of all the preamp tubes in the world, which one do you think makes the most dramatic changes in sound, be it good or bad?

racko7566 · 10-13-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

So I have this straight. You can put the amp on standby and safely swap out the pre-amp tubes with the amp on?

Yea, the guys said just dont bang them around when the filaments are hot.

wegman · 10-13-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racko7566

Yea, the guys said just dont bang them around when the filaments are hot.

Wow that's cool. I never would have even considered doing that.

Thanks man

racko7566 · 10-13-2009, 08:08 PM

Go back to page 56 of this thread and you can read about it. Its about 3 quater of the way down and written by Solarburn. OOhhh and dont look straight at him youll be blinded.

MartyStrat54 · 10-13-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racko7566

Out of all the preamp tubes in the world, which one do you think makes the most dramatic changes in sound, be it good or bad?

That's a tough one, because you have American and European tubes and also what makes the best V1 and V2.

I would say my favorite American tube would be my 30-30 RCA 7025. That's one smokin' tube. It can be used in V1, but look out...it's an ICBM. A real monster in V2. My favorite American V1 would be either a 1959 RCA medium Gray Plate, or a 1960-64 Raytheon Black Plate. I also like medium gain 7025's in V1. There's just so many good ones.

My favorite European tube would be a Philips or Amperex (same tube) ECC83/12AX7. To me, this edges out the Telefunken smooth plate in the V1 position. I've also used a medium gain Amperex 7025 in V1 with a high gain Amperex 12AX7 in V2 and this is a deadly combo of Dutch tube technology.

A lot has to do with the brand of amp and the "brand" of power tubes that are being used. I think a Telefunken sounds really good in the first gain stage of a Fender amp. I think Tele's seem to blend better with a 6L6GC versus the EL34 (IMO) The Tele is definitely one of the top three sounding tubes. The smooth plate being the most sought after. I have run a Tele in V1 with a high gain Amperex in V2 and I doubt if anyone one would not like that particular sound. The thing about a Tele is that they all sound different. Depending on the year, the materials used and the machinery, the Tele's all have different sounds. Then you have to remember that RFT made Telefunkens (no diamond on the bottom). I just found this out myself. However, the RFT/Tele's are very,very nice sounding tubes. They have a unique plate assembly and they do not look anything like a Tele.

This is one of those subjects where there can be several winners. Each of us has a different tonal sound we are striving for.

racko7566 · 10-13-2009, 09:09 PM

Thanks for the great info Marty. I'm like a sponge for info lately, regenerating long lost brain cells I guess. Anybody else? * NEXT, cough, cough *

MartyStrat54 · 10-13-2009, 09:15 PM

I wish I had a cough like that!

MartyStrat54 · 10-13-2009, 09:17 PM

Is that a guitar you are holding Racko, or a bong shaped like a guitar?

:appl ause:

wegman · 10-13-2009, 09:18 PM

I hope this works.

Anyone have word on these?

MartyStrat54 · 10-13-2009, 09:24 PM

If you have bought those...they're nice. Did you get them, or is that an auction picture?

wegman · 10-13-2009, 09:29 PM

Hi Marty.

That is the picture of the place that has them for sale.

I sent them an e-mail asking if they are NOS and tested like you recommended.

RiverRatt · 10-13-2009, 09:37 PM

Wow. I like the Tele! I think it edges out the Mullard for the V1 spot. It's great clean, it gets good 'n' crunchy, and with the gain cranked it's a monster. I've heard people describe tubes as having a "3D" sound, and I think this is what they mean. The highs on this thing are so smooth - I actually turned UP the treble on a DSL! Pinch harmonics are nice, too. With the RFT EL34s and the Raytheon BP and these last two tubes (the Mullard and the Tele), my amp sounds like a different beast altogether. It's as dramatic a change as any mods I've heard, and better in some ways.

Congrats, Wegman, those look like some nice RCAs. I don't think we've met yet. What kind of amp are you playing?

MartyStrat54 · 10-13-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRatt

Wow. I like the Tele! I think it edges out the Mullard for the V1 spot. It's great clean, it gets good 'n' crunchy, and with the gain cranked it's a monster. I've heard people describe tubes as having a "3D" sound, and I think this is what they mean. The highs on this thing are so smooth - I actually turned UP the treble on a DSL! Pinch harmonics are nice, too. With the RFT EL34s and the Raytheon BP and these last two tubes (the Mullard and the Tele), my amp sounds like a different beast altogether. It's as dramatic a change as any mods I've heard, and better in some ways.

Congrats, Wegman, those look like some nice RCAs. I don't think we've met yet. What kind of amp are you playing?

Gee, Alan...when I read stories like this I just want to cry. I really loved that one line about, "It's as dramatic a change as any mods I've heard and better in some ways." God that sounds nice. See what a little tube rolling can do. Oh, it helps to have some good tubes. I knew you would like the Tele.

solarburnDSL50 · 10-13-2009, 10:02 PM

Just check'n in real quick! Looks like guys are having fun roll'n!

I have to let the daughter's use the computer for homework so I will catch up to you bruther's later then.

wegman · 10-13-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRatt

Wow. I like the Tele! I think it edges out the Mullard for the V1 spot. It's great clean, it gets good 'n' crunchy, and with the gain cranked it's a monster. I've heard people describe tubes as having a "3D" sound, and I think this is what they mean. The highs on this thing are so smooth - I actually turned UP the treble on a DSL! Pinch harmonics are nice, too. With the RFT EL34s and the Raytheon BP and these last two tubes (the Mullard and the Tele), my amp sounds like a different beast altogether. It's as dramatic a change as any mods I've heard, and better in some ways.

Congrats, Wegman, those look like some nice RCAs. I don't think we've met yet. What kind of amp are you playing?

Hi RiverRatt nice to meet you.

I am struggling with a JCM 800 2210 from 1989. Since having it re-tubed it sounds awful. I have learned a mountain of information from this site and this thread. From everything I have read it looks like I am going to have to start playing with the pre-amp tubes to find "my tone" again.

I saw those RCA's for sale and I was considering picking them up after the really knowledgable people said they look decent.

MartyStrat54 · 10-13-2009, 10:36 PM

Yeah, unlike the 800 I used to own, you have the hot rod model. The 2210 uses four preamp tubes. The most important for tone are V1 and V2. For V3 and V4, I still recommend NOS or ANOS (Almost New Old Stock) for these slots. You can get by with current production (CP) tubes, but V3 can be hard on CP tubes. However, many people are running their amps with CP in V3 and V4.

The main thing is V1 and V2. On the 800's I've sold tubes for, it is imperative that you have a nice, high gainer in V2 to get that amp to perform as it should. It would be nice if one of those RCA's tested higher than the other. This would be your V2. The main point is you can't guess at what you are putting in. If you don't get a high gainer in V2, your 800 is not going to sound as good as it can.

racko7566 · 10-13-2009, 10:43 PM

Did you say BONG? I saw nothing, I think, damn cant rememb........

wegman · 10-13-2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Yeah, unlike the 800 I used to own, you have the hot rod model. The 2210 uses four preamp tubes. The most important for tone are V1 and V2. For V3 and V4, I still recommend NOS or ANOS (Almost New Old Stock) for these slots. You can get by with current production (CP) tubes, but V3 can be hard on CP tubes. However, many people are running their amps with CP in V3 and V4.

The main thing is V1 and V2. On the 800's I've sold tubes for, it is imperative that you have a nice, high gainer in V2 to get that amp to perform as it should. It would be nice if one of those RCA's tested higher than the other. This would be your V2. The main point is you can't guess at what you are putting in. If you don't get a high gainer in V2, your 800 is not going to sound as good as it can.

Thank you for the info. It lays out where I need to begin my search.

My amp has 5 pre-amp tubes.

MartyStrat54 · 10-13-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wegman

Thank you for the info. It lays out where I need to begin my search.

My amp has 5 pre-amp tubes.

I'm not real familiar with the 2210. I forgot that the PI tube is listed with the power section. I'm always fascinated with Marshall amps that have a lot of preamp tubes (like the 6100). If the 5th tube is the phase inverter, do you know what the other tubes do? I mean I would assume that V1 and V2 are your gain stage tubes, but then what does V3 do? I'm assuming again that V4 is the tone stack/cathode follower tube. That leaves V3 as "another gain tube?" Who says an 800 doesn't have any gain?

Let me know about those tube positions if you know what they are.

10-12-2009, 05:43 PM	#1682 (permalink)
RiverRatt Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Between Memphis and Nashville Posts: 517	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Marty, check this tube out. RCA 7025 Cleartop - USA These share some similarities with the Sonotone - except they have flat sided spacers like the AU7A. While you're on the tubemonger database, do a search for "cleartop". There are some interesting Brimars that come up.

10-12-2009, 08:24 PM	#1684 (permalink)
RiverRatt Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Between Memphis and Nashville Posts: 517	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? I'm not trying to obsess over these tubes, I've just been doing a few image searches and those were a couple of the more interesting ones I've found. FWIW there's a clear top GE on eBay right now that was made in Canada that looks similar to the RCAs. The Brimars were unexpected, as was a Marconi 7025A cleartop that I ran across somewhere. I guess I'm just interested in the oddities like this that don't fit into any of the stereotypes for a particular manufacturer. I'm having some medical issues that have kept me close to the computer and on some pretty heavy narcotics lately, too. That tends to make search results a lot more interesting.

10-12-2009, 08:43 PM	#1685 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Oh I am more than interested in any of this. It is the unique and odd tubes that I find intriguing. I just wish there was a book called, "The Complete History of Tubes." With chapters on what happened after 1966 and who really was still making tubes after 1966. A couple of chapters on what role Mullard and RFT played in supplying tubes labeled as "Made in USA." Did Tungsram make tubes for American companies? All the tube companies that ever was in business in the USA and when did they close their doors. You know, stuff like that. That's what I wish I knew...all of that. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-13-2009, 07:02 PM	#1686 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? If you are just glancing over the posts here in this thread, please feel free to ask any question you may have. There are several guys who can answer your questions. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-13-2009, 07:05 PM	#1687 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Show me your tubes! Got any pic's of your favorite tubes? It does not matter if it is current production or NOS. Show us what you got, what position you use it in and why it is your favorite V1 or V2 tube? __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-13-2009, 07:16 PM	#1688 (permalink)
RiverRatt Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Between Memphis and Nashville Posts: 517	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? I don't have any pics. How do you post them? I tried yours & Joe's method for preamp tube swapping last night. If it's not hurting the tubes, it's sure a lot quicker and easier to compare. V1 was a hard-fought contest. It ended up being between the 20-20 GE you sent me and my 1966 Mullard. These two tubes sounded a LOT alike. The Mullard won out - it had just a little more "hair" and it had a little more punch than the GE. NOW I have sitting in front of me a new contender. Smooth plates. Diamond bottom. Bring it on.

10-13-2009, 07:35 PM	#1689 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? That's what I'm talking about. A fistfight between a Mullard and a Telefunken. Serious fun. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-13-2009, 07:46 PM	#1690 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? I'm really glad you guys mentioned rolling tubes in standby, it makes a world of difference in comparing sounds without forgetting the last sound. Thanks guys.

10-13-2009, 07:51 PM	#1691 (permalink)
wegman Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 138	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? So I have this straight. You can put the amp on standby and safely swap out the pre-amp tubes with the amp on? __________________ Ian St Ian says "If your not playing Gibson and Marshall your a wanker!" Marshall JCM 800 2210 (1989) Marshall MG CD10 (hi guys!) Gibson Les Paul Custom (1981) Mackie 24x8 mixing console Alesis ADAT HD 24 digital recorder Shure KSM 27

10-13-2009, 07:52 PM	#1692 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Out of all the preamp tubes in the world, which one do you think makes the most dramatic changes in sound, be it good or bad?

10-13-2009, 08:08 PM	#1695 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Go back to page 56 of this thread and you can read about it. Its about 3 quater of the way down and written by Solarburn. OOhhh and dont look straight at him youll be blinded.

10-13-2009, 09:09 PM	#1697 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Thanks for the great info Marty. I'm like a sponge for info lately, regenerating long lost brain cells I guess. Anybody else? * NEXT, cough, cough *

10-13-2009, 09:15 PM	#1698 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? I wish I had a cough like that! __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-13-2009, 09:17 PM	#1699 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Is that a guitar you are holding Racko, or a bong shaped like a guitar? :appl ause: __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-13-2009, 09:24 PM	#1701 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? If you have bought those...they're nice. Did you get them, or is that an auction picture? __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-13-2009, 09:29 PM	#1702 (permalink)
wegman Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 138	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Hi Marty. That is the picture of the place that has them for sale. I sent them an e-mail asking if they are NOS and tested like you recommended. __________________ Ian St Ian says "If your not playing Gibson and Marshall your a wanker!" Marshall JCM 800 2210 (1989) Marshall MG CD10 (hi guys!) Gibson Les Paul Custom (1981) Mackie 24x8 mixing console Alesis ADAT HD 24 digital recorder Shure KSM 27

10-13-2009, 09:37 PM	#1703 (permalink)
RiverRatt Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Between Memphis and Nashville Posts: 517	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Wow. I like the Tele! I think it edges out the Mullard for the V1 spot. It's great clean, it gets good 'n' crunchy, and with the gain cranked it's a monster. I've heard people describe tubes as having a "3D" sound, and I think this is what they mean. The highs on this thing are so smooth - I actually turned UP the treble on a DSL! Pinch harmonics are nice, too. With the RFT EL34s and the Raytheon BP and these last two tubes (the Mullard and the Tele), my amp sounds like a different beast altogether. It's as dramatic a change as any mods I've heard, and better in some ways. Congrats, Wegman, those look like some nice RCAs. I don't think we've met yet. What kind of amp are you playing?

10-13-2009, 10:36 PM	#1707 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Yeah, unlike the 800 I used to own, you have the hot rod model. The 2210 uses four preamp tubes. The most important for tone are V1 and V2. For V3 and V4, I still recommend NOS or ANOS (Almost New Old Stock) for these slots. You can get by with current production (CP) tubes, but V3 can be hard on CP tubes. However, many people are running their amps with CP in V3 and V4. The main thing is V1 and V2. On the 800's I've sold tubes for, it is imperative that you have a nice, high gainer in V2 to get that amp to perform as it should. It would be nice if one of those RCA's tested higher than the other. This would be your V2. The main point is you can't guess at what you are putting in. If you don't get a high gainer in V2, your 800 is not going to sound as good as it can. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-13-2009, 10:43 PM	#1708 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Did you say BONG? I saw nothing, I think, damn cant rememb........

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